Dolerman

Xandrya's First Contest (Match Finished)

Zai had dodged bullets before, but never at this range. Despite the cover of the desk he was behind the opponent's bullets pierced through the cheap wood easily and slammed into his shoulder. His suit managed to stop the bullets from going in, but the impact was enough to knock him over. His arm was searing, he didn't know if it was swelling or some sort of fracture, but he gripped his teeth and scrambled to his feet.

Not wanting to risk a firefight when his opponent had a much more accurate firearm he launched himself out of the window and on to one of the lower roofs on the adjacent building, Landing was painful as he had to roll on the shoulder he was just shot in, but he finally had some space. Now he was looking up at the window wondering what his female nemesis would do next.

Doll's Romance Interest Check 2.0! Advanced

@Dynamo Frokane XD

@Narcotic Dollie

The Dollie! Shes back!

We have a lot to talk about and RPs to plan :)

Doll's Romance Interest Check 2.0! Advanced

@Narcotic Dollie :O

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Based on memory, the most blaring and obvious theme of the movie is revenge. Absurdity, Justice - albeit extremely negative as with most, if not all of Tarantino's films - Brutality, selfishness, and if you really dig for it, possibly independence. But considering that the main character has been independent from the starting line, and there isn't any focus there, I don't think it garners attention or acts as an defining theme. But I haven't seen the movies in a long time, so yeah.

@tex

But none of these things, (violence, revenge, personal justice) on their own run counter current to the idea of feminism. The violence in Kill Bill, however brutal is something that male assassins and female assassins both engage with at equal conviction, its simply a means to an end, and the fact the women don't treat violence and fighting any different to the men is feminist. The same is said for these other character traits such as selfishness, these are not intrinsically non feminist or feminist things, they are neutral, the feminism comes in to how they are contextualized in regard to gender within the film.

The central theme of Kill Bill isn't feminism, but it is a feminist movie in regards to how the female characters are treated and how they act in the film.

You mentioned you don't know a lot about feminism, so in your opinion, why would violence. selfishness, justice go against feminism? I'm curious to understand your definition.

The story was never about Beatrice regaining or emphasizing her independence, it revolved around protecting her daughter.

@tex

Oh and just a plot correction there, she wasn't trying to 'protect her daughter' as she only found out her daughter was even alive in the last 20 mins of volume 2. She was killing the deadly viper gang out of personal revenge for herself and avenging her child who she assumed at that point was killed unborn after waking up from her coma.

This was the film's way of cleverly subverting the whole 'motherly instinct' trope.

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

That's exactly why I think it's inane to label movies like Kill Bill as feminist, when the core themes are so far south of feminism that it's laughable.

@tex

Which core themes are you referring to?

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

and I certainly don't think that any competent feminists would like to identify their movement with a movie about a woman brutally murdering people for her independence.

@tex

EDIT:

I'm not going to keep quote cutting you, mainly because you keep repeating the same 3 things with different caps/emojis/images for emphasis.

Your main point of contention seems to be that you don't think Kill Bill is a feminist movie. Me and @Fabricant451 have both laid out why it is one. So why don't you give me your definition of feminism in film and let's work from there.

The Prince's Guard 18+ MxFs (Female Warrior Harem)

@Apoalo@GentleYandere hello you two! friendly nudge to see when youll be posting?

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

When Fabricant realises she agrees with something I said.

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

@Inkarnate

You can do better than a gif, Gowi.

Say something passive aggressive in an eloquent sentence or two, like you're supposed to.

Bad Movies Worth Talking About (Hotel Artemis & Bright)

<Snipped quote>

It... It is... The brutality and sheer aggression of the main character's actions, even outside of the simple act of murder, is a significant part of her characterization, and by extension, the plot of the movie. It may even be one of the sole impacts on the movie's tone. To deny something like this is to completely disregard a significant portion of the movie's themes, characterization, plot, and tone. I believe this is called cherry picking.

@tex

And what the hell does any of that have to do with feminism? What exactly is it's relevance to women or men?

Again you said 'no self respecting feminist' what exactly is the conflict here?

I also find it strange that you would assert this ad hominem-

@tex

Which shows you don't understand the meaning of ad hominem

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but feminism's origins stem from political activism. It was a movement centered around women's rights, and should still be considered a political body

@tex

No, its origins are in philosophy from Classical Liberal thinkers like Jeremy Bentham the term feminism was coined by Charles Fourier in 1837. The significant feminist movements came after the ideology.

I don't know what you mean by 'political body' there is no American Feminist Political Party so you comparing them to the Democratic party is just bizarre. If you're saying that feminism as a movement that has an effect and is affected by politics then, you are pointing out what can be applied to most 'movements'.

This makes no sense. You are quite literally saying that a movie that theoretically embodies first wave feminism in its entirety with due accuracy is not a feminist movie. That makes no sense. That is completely absurd. I don't think you have any grounds to claim that I'm conflating my personal beliefs on feminism with actual feminist philosophies, when you are clearly demonstrating a severe lack of education on the topic. I will be the first to admit that I am not particularly learned on feminist philosophy, but I don't think I'm ignorant of the core beliefs behind the political movement.

@tex

You saying that things are nonsensical and absurd a lot of times doesn't actually strengthen your argument, but here we go..

You are using strange terms like saying the film 'embodies' feminism. I don't know what that means. The film is ABOUT the suffragette feminist movement in England yes. In the same way Lincoln is about the Presidency during the civil war, but does it 'embody' the subject matter. I'll be clear, Suffragette is a move about a feminist movie, and has characters and a plot about the activists in that movement which are feminists. But that is just setting and characters, themes of the film are separate. Now does suffragette have feminist themes? Yes probably but not the same ones that are explored in Ex-Machina or presented in Kill Bill. All these things are separate.

So to be clear

Suffragette:
Setting: England During Suffragette Era
Genre: Political Drama/Historical Biopic
Topic: The Struggles and Rise of the first Feminist Movement

Kill Bill:
Setting: Modern Asia and America
Genre: Kung-Fu Exploitation Revenge Movie
Topic: The Destruction of an Assassins guild by a former member.

Ex-Machina
Setting: Near Future Silicon Valley America
Genre: Sci-Fi Psychological Thriller
Topic: The application of the Turing Test to a Android

Now where the themes of the movie come in is the plot what actually happens in the movie? Feminism is a movement but its also an ideology. While Suffragette is a historical look at one of the founding movements of feminism. Kill Bill and Ex Machina explore parts of feminist ideology though the actual stories. And yes having a strong female lead IS feminism if the female is being portrayed and treated no different to how a man would be treated in terms of narrative. Note that narrative treatment is not the same as the actual character's treatment in-universe.

If a movie that directly shows what slavery was like is considered a 'slave movie',

@tex

So let me be clear, I don't think 'slave' is a genre. I'm using the term loosely to define movies that depict slavery as apposed to movies that are intrinsically about slavery in its narrative.

Now it's not the perfect comparison for feminism because slavery isn't an ideology in the same way, its a historical practice. But to make the point that Django Unchained is really a western story about a rescue of a loved one. The fact that the main character is a former slave is important but its just the 'backdrop' to a lot of bounty hunting and character motivation.

12 years a slave's entire focus is about the experience of being a slave. There is no love interest, there is no real 'main villain' its a story entirely about the personal journey of someone trying to live as a slave and everything that happens around him as a result of the institution of slavery. This is why I would say this is fitting of the 'Slave Movie' label even though the genre would technically be 'Historical Drama'.

Haha, what? Is it because I swore a couple times? Fuck, man.

@tex

No because your tone is overly dismissive and comes across like an angry rant, like you are personally shocked that anyone would even make the arguments that I'm making. Now obviously you have plausible deniability of your intent, but considering you are on a website for creative writing, I would hope your understanding of tone is similar enough to mine to see how that comes across.

Your constant dismissing my opinions as inane also implies that arent really trying to discuss as much as you are to dismiss, which is fine if you want to just joust, but I actually happen to find this conversation interesting and want to keep it in the realm of an exchange rather than a back and forth of gotchas.

Ive seen you debate with others and it's rarely in this tone, so I can only conclude that this is because feminism is an important issue to you.