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    1. Protagonist 11 yrs ago

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I'm a member of the Patriarchy. Well, that's one of the names our organization uses.

Dinh AaronMk said
I think you're confusing mid 19th-century America with that of Dark Ages Britain, and it'd be best for you to not.Not even the "Wild West" was as bad as the era of Atilla the Hun. Or Fallout.


You are correct, though my statement does apply to 19th century America as well. Only less so.
mdk said
Well they were definitely slaves -- if anything should be in quotation marks it's "HIS." Dude owned slaves, there's not really a moral upside to that, so let's not step around the issue at all. Lots of people in history owned slaves. Once upon a time, Hammurabi was literally *THE* paragon of morality. We've changed. If we're gonna be objective about historical figures then we need to get past the part where we try to make them 'okay' by modern standards. Lee was kind of a bastard, who did lots of other cool stuff and was otherwise a pretty remarkably awesome dude.


I would disagree with the part about "We've changed". The only thing that's really changed between us and them are resources and what amounts to "20-20 hindsight". Many moral principles we take for granted are probably less obvious than we realize. Slavery, for example.

What I think is a good way to think of it is like this: The people of the past were basically desperate post-apocalyptic survivors/well-intentioned extremists. There simply wasn't the resources for any reliable means of investigation, criminal records, or prisons. And, if one had grown up in an environment where roving bands of marauders could loot and pillage at will, perhaps setting up an authoritarian, imperialistic monarchy might come across as a rational, necessary course of action for the preservation of "civilization".
ActRaiserTheReturned said
Robert E Lee was probably a "Master" who treated his slaves like people, according to what I've heard. He was like a decent person working with Satan.


Robert E Lee was probably even one step above that. If I understand correctly, he was actually largely against the causes of the confederacy, he just wanted to defend his homeland from getting hit with cannonballs, even if they were on what he thought was the "wrong" side of the war.
I'm descended from moonshiners (perhaps surprisingly), who are descended from the Scottish Campbell clan.
Darcs said
[citation needed]History says differently!


In another Crash Course (Crash Course big history, I think), John says that the murder rates might have been as high as 10%. Working hours weren't long, but that doesn't mean that life was not brutal.

According to Lawrence H. Keeley (an archaeology professor at the University of Illinois), 90-95% of hunter-gatherer societies have been involved in wars, wars which can produce casualty rates as high as 60%. For example, archaeologists have dug up pre-columbian mass graves with over 500 men, women and children, all of which were scalped.
To answer Darc's question about how Hunter Gatherer Societies survived: They might very well not have. The hunter gatherer life-style tends to be very brutal. It's really not a pretty picture.
The problem with centrist movements is that they don't necessarily get the best of both worlds. For example, Anarchism and Fascism can both be considered centrist viewpoints. Though this also because the single-axis system doesn't really work, you really need two axis, ala, the political compass.

on such a scale, my views fit right here:

To reiterate my own views:

Government: The purpose of the government is to mostly to manage security and some other services I call "non-excludables" like the fire department. Things that the benefit an entire public rather than individuals. The government has to follow the same rules as individual citizens.

Religion: The government should not be officially affiliated with any church or doctrine, nor vice versa. Having said that, I don't think religion and politics should be separate things. I believe that people should vote fairly in accordance with their religious views.

Economics: The government should not control any "private businesses" (aside from safety regulations), or vice-versa. Megacorporations controlling the government are bad, but a communist government more or less IS a megacorporation. Thus, the truth lies in the middle...which is actually pretty close to where America is already at.

Some more specific views:

1. Gun Control: All weapons (aside from WMDs, of course. At best, they're environmental hazards) should be legal at the state and federal level. Cities can ban whatever weapons they like, as long as their ban applies to EVERYONE. This includes their own police forces, and any state and federal forces entering.

2. Gay marriage: I'm a unionist. I think homosexuality is morally wrong, but at the same time I'm opposed to the state controlling marriage. Thus, I think gay marriage should be legal.

3. Drugs: Particularly addictive drugs that render people dysfunctional beyond reason need to be controlled. Pot is acceptable, but meth is not. Selling someone meth is somewhat tantamount to drugging them and stealing their money. It's not acceptable.

4. Abortion: Firmly against. There might some cases where it's acceptable, but it's legal all the time at the federal level, so there should be at least some restraints.
More members would be great, certainly.
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