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    1. TShara 11 yrs ago
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I see. It's just in my mind, most of the way Joseph acts is psychological now. Even when Alexi phrases something as a request rather than an order, he still tends to do it whether he likes it or not. That's not the potion forcing him, as it doesn't trigger with simple requests as it does with order. That's his own learned loyalty and submissiveness. In some ways, he's actually worse off than a hard broken slave, because there isn't an antidote for that. Worst of all, right now, he doesn't want to be free. Or rather, he does, but he's so convinced that he doesn't deserve freedom that he would rather stay a slave. Alexi will be hard pressed to even get him to take the antidote.

Anyway, all of that is a while off.
Yeah, the situation in the other RP was different. I understand, m'dear. And I was just teasing you. I'm able come up with really horrid scenarios as well, things I would never do or think in real life. On some level, I'm still rather ashamed of that ability, so my joke to you about being as terrible as me was just in jest.

Don't forget that you said you'd tell me more about what you were thinking for Joseph's situation when you could. Not that there's any rush.
I meant more if I were given it for free or cheap or something. I know I can't really make any money on that kind of thing. :-)

I suppose it would depend on the collector. I'm in one rp would my rebel leader was captured, and the Emperor started off wanting to break her, but then realized he did not want to obliterate her mind completely. But in that case, he'd developed a personal enmity with her, from afar, and had come to respect her, though he would never admit it. In this world, he would have merely soft broken her, because he came to enjoy parrying words and sharing ideas about the nature of command.

So that's really a different mentality from the desire to own, control, and break such a formerly powerful creature, which is more what you're talking about. This hypothetical collector would have no respect for Erik's spirit or accomplishments, only a desire to crush it and mold it to his/her own will. I'm looking forward to a scene or two of freeing some of the other former Leaders who met that fate.

You know, you really are just as fucked up as I am, my friend. :-P I approve.
Hm... You're right that Joseph can't throw away that loyalty. But if he was sold fair and square, not captured or anything, then he would still be obedient, if for no other reason than he knows that that's Master Alexi's will. He hasn't been chemically hard broken for about 300 years now, because at some point, there was no longer a need for the potion in his case. He's soft broken, but that's less severe. I don't see why he would have to be broken in order to be obedient and to work in the best interests of his new masters, so long as they weren't against Vandros interests.

Yes, he would be upset about the change, even heartbroken. He loves Alexi, and having someone you love and think of as a son literally sell you to someone else would be horrid. But his own emotions are irrelevant to him. He would still do as he was told regardless. I guess, I see his current breaking as much more psychological than chemical at this point.

But if we went with your concept of it, I still need some more explanation. What is the cause of such a reaction, his own mind and loyalty or the potions? And what would the results be for Joseph?

That is, if you dont mind. It's not like any of this is going to happen in the story. I can't see Alexi selling Joseph even if he was offered a thousand times his highest appraisal. I am curious about the implications for if and when he is freed, however.

~

Well, to me, that stamp is worthless... but I like money enough that if I thought I could sell it for a significant profit, I'd still buy or take it. To use your analogy, breaking, at least hard breaking, someone like Erik would be like having to crumple up the stamp in order to keep it in your collection. If he's hard broken, then his identity as a Leader is gone, a part of his past. If anything, it would make more sense to soft break him... keep his mind intact, even though he's imprisoned. But I suppose it does depend on the person. Maybe the act of taking someone so rebellious and making them truly your own slave would be valuable to some.
As far as trading him to a different family, Joseph might not be as emotionally loyal, because that's not something anyone can just automatically do. But he wouldn't be disobedient. If asked to drink the hard breaking potion, his only resistance would be to politely ask the master to reconsider, pointing out that he has been a much more effective slave since his last hard breaking ended. Even that's only because he feels so strongly about his hatred for the potion. If the new master insisted after that, he would drink the doses without further complaint. ... He's... incredibly messed up, really. Honestly, I rarely play characters that are that gorram submissive/broken.

It's hard for me to understand the collector's mentality, because everything that makes him valuable as a Leader has made him worthless as a slave. To turn him into a slave, you have to obliterate his identity as a Leader, and then it seems like he wouldn't be as valuable as a collector's item. Does that make any sense?
To start with, I had roughly the same factors in my head. Rarity and skill set / experience, especially.

I was thinking of Joseph as worth a lot more than that, because of the sheer breadth of his skill set. No one probably knows just how much he does for Alexi. He's an amazing manager, with everything that entails. And he handles the finances for the Vandros household. I even imagine him doing Alexi's taxes. He's a relatively accomplished musician, repairman, cook, caretaker, gardener, bodyguard etc... because his roles have changed so much over the years. Furthermore, the fact that he's not formally hard broken but just psychologically still in that mindset gives him significantly more ability to act with both grace and independence.

As far as difficulty training him for a new household, I don't see that as particularly difficult. He would go quietly without voicing his displeasure or trepidation in any way.

You've basically covered all of that, so I was still trying to get why he's still not worth much to most people. And I guess what it is is that his skills aren't necessarily slave skills. I imagine that some owners think so little of slaves that they would find Joseph's intelligence and ability disconcerting at best, and downright insulting at worst. Some might be worried that someone with that much independence and skill would betray them, because they are “cut out” for a better life than that of a slave. At some point, being too competent could actually hurt you.

Besides that, I'm sure that Alexi keeps the skills of his slaves, especially Joseph, rather quiet. So no one but Alexi knows just how valuable he is. Joseph is not being graded on his actual usefulness, but rather his perceived ability, in a culture that has certain ideas on what a slave should do, and in a world where it's hidden for his own protection. That's why his score is so low. The people who can see past all of that, Orion for instance, know that he's worth a lot more. So if he were going to be sold, it would be a private thing to someone who wants a trustworthy slave with his skill set. On the open market, against slaves who have only done slave work, his skills don't help him that much.

Of course, it's irrelevant since even Joseph knows that Alexi would never sell him. Tristan came close to it a couple of times though. :-P So, I was kind of insulted on my character's behalf at first, but ultimately I agree with you.

As far as Erik's price... he's got to be almost worthless. He's a vampire, so a common species, with a known violent criminal history. He has some skills in repair work, cooking, stuff he had to do for the Resistance, but he's a major flight risk and would be prone to lash out. He'd be worth slightly more to someone crazy who liked the idea of utterly breaking a formal Resistance leader, but otherwise he's a 2 at best. Maybe a 3 to someone like that.
It's interesting that your post brought up the idea of buying Joseph. My brain is weird, so I've actually thought a good bit about how much various slaves are worth and how that would be tabulated.
Yeah, that was fine. I was trying to show that Joseph is clearly second class in this environment without anyone being openly hostile. Orion leading him around like that fit perfectly. And he would have gone anyway, since he knows that the man is one of Alexi's suppliers. In a sense, he is making Josephs job easier.

Ill edit the name of Alexis company if you want. I couldnt really think of anything particularly good.
"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

Lovely post. What did we decide that the new creatures were called again?

I'm still going to be slow... things are untangling, but it's slow work. Currently I still have 3 other replies to do first, as well.
Wow, I actually pulled it off. I'm sorry I didn't get to Erik's part, but it was still a pretty lengthy post. I shall work on his part after I get replies out to other people, and with any luck, should have it for the next post or the one after, depending on how fast your replies are.

Sorry again about the slowness.
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