Role-Play Advice

[Gendarme]

It's been a considerable amount of time since I've logged onto the guild. Still longer since I've posted. So I'd like to say hello in addition to asking for advice.

It's been a while since I've been in any role-play, and while I would like to join one, I do think I could use some advice before I try and get involved again. The categories I'm concerned with in particular are the following.

• How do I do a proper collaboration post?
• How do I portray ships, buildings, and inanimate objects in general through writing without sounding boring?
• What is the right amount of detail in most posts? Are there any exceptions?
• I intend to head to an Advanced role-play at some point, but I would like to increase my skill beforehand. Do you have any general writing tips?
• What early signs are there that a role-play will have longevity and not die out quickly? How can I help keep a role-play alive and fun as a poster?

In addition, what early signs are there that a role-play will have longevity and not die out quickly? How can I help keep a role-play alive and fun as a poster?

I'd also like to thank those that have helped me with advice in the past, and I'd like to thank those that respond to this thread with advice.

[ArenaSnow]

-Meetingwords or google docs are good mediums for collab postings. Realtime editing, so basically send over the links and things can almost "flow" together, though some organization is needed if many folks are on at once.
-Imagery's your friend in portraying stuff like that. Metaphor, blah blah. Unless it's essential I personally end up skimming those things.
-Enough detail to draw the basic shapes and images, while allowing particular important details to stand out. Any more I find not only unnecessary, but sometimes boring. I prefer to get my own mental image of a character as compared to someone desperately trying to get every little detail down.
-Find good writers that seem open, PM them, maybe ask them for a 1x1. Start off in the casual forum and work up.
-There are no early signs. There could be early steps such as pulling together a relatively tight group, but every roleplay worth its salt has looked at the end of the tunnel before turning back to life. Be random (within reason, obviously), keep the OOC active, breathe life, and if you're the GM throw prods around at anyone not keeping up with the intended pace. Don't pester them, but keep them around.

If ya need more, I'm around :)

[Jig]

Most of my advice isn't helpful, but here goes.

Collaborative Posts: I like Googledocs. Everyone can access it, type concurrently, and there's a chat function. When I'm involved in a collaborative post, I encourage only one player to write the whole post from their character's perspective. Essentially, the non-writer(s) is/are just there to supply information, what their character/s do and say - and not to do any writing. Apart from direct speech, I encourage that collab's writer to rewrite all of the information they are given. This way, the whole post looks and feels like one solid post, just like any other. Otherwise, I find the flipflopping of perspective to be confusing, difficult to follow, and generally bad practice, since there's not really any difference between constant perspective shifts and a series of one-liners and you might as well do one-liners. It's worth saying that the system I've just outlined is by no means the standard, although I think it's had some popularity among players in the games I've run. It also has the bonus effect that you can blast through the exchange of information and plan the scene in one relatively short session ("so if my character says X, what does yours say?") and the writer can just take away the notes and write the damn thing in their own time.

Portraying Things Without Being Boring: My advice here would be, if it's not relevant, don't talk about it. Ships and buildings are pretty, and pretty is great, but don't derail actual content to just describe stuff for the sake of it. We call that 'fluff', as in, padding. I'm not saying that going into detail about these things is always irrelevant, but it easily can be. While I'm by no means the best writer in the universe, I find the best way to make my writing more interesting is to never use the same word more than once in a paragraph if I can at all help it, with the exception of 'the', 'a', and 'said'.

The Right Amount of Detail: How long is a piece of string? The right amount of detail is the right amount of detail that is needed. As above, if it's not relevant, don't be talking about it. Otherwise, it's fluff. If there's something to be got from detail, like how your character feels about how imposing a ship might be, or you want to describe something which will then come up in the near or distant future, go into as much detail as that needs. The least important thing to put detail into is your character's appearance and especially what they're wearing.

Getting into Advanced: I once played with somebody who was quite nervous about trying advanced as that was their first time. There was no marked difference between their writing or anybody else's that I picked up on. For me, I think the only thing that really separates Advanced from Casual is how much people are willing to invest in the games. Casual goes much more quickly while Advanced goes much more slowly, with predictable effects on post length, future-planning, etc. I've never ever seen anybody say to anybody else "you shouldn't be here" unless they were new to the forum altogether and were pitching something that clearly wasn't right for the section (ie: something that would fit better in Free), and, even then, it was constructive and not critical advice. Otherwise, GM's might be more inclined to request accurate spelling and grammar, but I've seen plenty of shonky SpaG in Advanced, and you seem to spell and use grammar confidently so it's not really worth your worrying about. Basically, go find something you want to join, and try it out. If you are really nervous, you could maybe say to the GM that you're open to advice and guidance.

There's no real reason to assume that Advanced is 'better' in any way than Casual in terms of writing quality: it's just for players looking for something maybe more in-depth than people in Casual might be looking for. Assuming it's about how well you write isn't strictly true. The longer posts that are typically expected will of course give your strong points more time to shine and maybe expose some weak points, but writing and reading longer posts would, in my opinion, give you a greater opportunity to improve your writing anyway.

Early Signs: I think that's number two on the list of things I've like to know, after the alchemical process that turns base metals into gold.

[Pair of Hearts]

The Right Amount of Detail: How long is a piece of string? The right amount of detail is the right amount of detail that is needed. As above, if it's not relevant, don't be talking about it. Otherwise, it's fluff. If there's something to be got from detail, like how your character feels about how imposing a ship might be, or you want to describe something which will then come up in the near or distant future, go into as much detail as that needs. The least important thing to put detail into is your character's appearance and especially what they're wearing.

@Jig

Please, heed Jig and be a part of the revolutionary group who don't interpret "more is better, always". I've roleplayed with a lot of people in my life - and take me as an example. I'm not a bad RPer, but I am not good either because I flak. My main reason? Life, but also, those I explicitly drop tend to run on details too much. Once, I roleplayed with someone who used 1000 words (10 paragraphs) to describe the apparel of one character.

Daunting, but moreso ... superfluous.

[Phoenix]

I'll "ditto" @Pair of Hearts about @Jig's post.
However, I'll go into more specific details of that I can think.

• How do I do a proper collaboration post?
  I, personally, use MeetingWords/PiratePad/PublicPad. I can't seem to get GoogleDocs to do what I want and to look the way I want it to. But there are plenty of resources out there. Try out other people's suggestions and do your own research. Experiment and develop your own opinion. ^^
• How do I portray ships, buildings, and inanimate objects in general through writing without sounding boring?
  What does your character notice about them? Does your character notice them at all? Are they important to the plot?
  Your character comes up to a fence. That portion of the fence is what your character notices, but the fence goes on for miles. It's not necessarily important that the fence goes on for miles if the character is just going to climb it. However, it does become important when they try to find a way around it. On the other side, your character decides to jump it, making the length irrelevant. However another character doesn't want to climb it and wants to go around. Now the length is relevant. But should you mention it in your post anyway should that occur? Do you know it's going to occur regardless? Maybe, to keep your post about your character, mention such details in the OOC. But then you get into "trying to control the minutia of mundane objects," which can get excessive.
  So, if your character does care about the length now, your question to ask is "will they care about it later?" If not, then don't determine such a trivial aspect. If you're the GM and you want to make sure it is that length due to other characters interacting with, then post it ICly.
  I guess what I'm trying to say is "keep it in the perspective of your character." If we're talking about humans, we don't notice every little thing about something. So going into detail the colors of the banner flag on the bow of the ship would be what your character does or does not notice. Consider this when going into detail about something.
  
  In terms of "how should I write it?," use words that are relatively common but invoke some kind of feeling that you want to portray.
  Instead of using "red," you could write "cherry-stained, angry, rosacea-like." Uniquely hyphenated words can invoke images in the reader's mind more easily than something they have never seen or read before (conflagrant).
  Also, you could try to describe something that doesn't share a property with it. So, instead of calling a color by the color, describe it with an object (cherry-stained), an emotion (angry), or a physical condition (rosacea-like). Take your character's development, personality, knowledge into account when you are looking for a "more interesting" description.
  Now, I don't mean that this should be done with every detail ever. That would be clunky and overbearing on the reader. So pick the traits that you want to have leave a lasting impression on the reader.
• What is the right amount of detail in most posts? Are there any exceptions?
  To go with the above, as much detail as your character notices. However, I tend to follow grammatical structures when describing something. You can certainly spend an entire paragraph on describing an object. But that should only be 3-5 sentences (more isn't really a huge problem, but I don't like going longer because then it's just taxing to read). Then, sentences are a single item/thought. Sentences can be made to go on forever, but it's important to keep your reader in mind.
• I intend to head to an Advanced role-play at some point, but I would like to increase my skill beforehand. Do you have any general writing tips?
  There are two grammatical items I notice many RPers do that make it difficult (if not just irritating) to read/comprehend.
  Keep an eye on the use of commas.
  It tends to be generally unknown by most people when to use a comma. To remedy this, I think research would be most beneficial. Prepositional and Adverb phrases tend to be the main issue with the misuse (non-use) of commas. If you don't know what those are, then you're probably not using most of your commas right. xP
  
  End your sentences.
  Periods (fullstops) are your friend. End your thought before going into another. Most people can't comprehend multiple thoughts in one sentence. When we see a period, we know we're going to the next thought. When we don't see one, we try to keep for a few words and then just give up.
  Furthermore, sometimes a shorter, precise sentence can help invoke the finality/importance/abruptness that you want to invoke (I'm using that word a lot).
  
  But I'll take an example in something you've written. This isn't a "hey, look! You're a bad writer and you've already did something wrong!" We all use improper grammar when speaking, and this is a discussion thread, so it's effectively speaking through text.
  

  It's been a while since I've been in any role-play, and while I would like to join one, I do think I could use some advice before I try and get involved again.

  
  

  It's been a while since I've been in any role-play. And while I would like to join one, I do think I could use some advice before I try and get involved again.

  
  
  This isn't the only edit this passage could have, but it addresses the idea of using periods more frequently than most do.
  It's something to consider. It's not something you need to do or people will look down on you. There will be instances when you want to drag out a sentence to invoke the feeling of "never-ending" or "shut up, already!"
  
  Taking this into account with the above suggestions about detail/description can make your work provoke something in others just by the spot in which you decide to place a period, the type of adjective you decide to use, etc.
• What early signs are there that a role-play will have longevity and not die out quickly? How can I help keep a role-play alive and fun as a poster? :'((((((((((((((((((

[Jig]

This isn't the only edit this passage could have, but it addresses the idea of using periods more frequently than most do.

@Phoenix

It's been a while since I've been in any role-play, and while I would like to join one, I do think I could use some advice before I try and get involved again.

This sentence isn't too long for human comprehension and there are pro's and con's to putting a full stop before the 'and'; while it does make the first clause more direct, you could argue that it makes the second clause less direct by slightly obscuring what 'one' refers to. As you acknowledge yourself, directness is not always the order of the day and I think you over-egg the value of sentences invoking 'finality'. You're right to advise that shorter sentences have a particular feel (while longer ones are appropriate under different circumstances), but your criticism here isn't particularly fair, given that the comma you have corrected is perfectly sound, grammatically, as it precedes a coordinating conjunction that connects two independent clauses.

The Advanced Section sometimes seems to have a really toxic reputation and can scare players off who, mistakenly, believe they're somehow 'not good enough' or fear that they might get picked apart. The consequence of this is that those players avoid certain sections of this community and that community suffers the loss of their absence and subsequently gets lower traffic - a lose-lose situation. I'm not sure that this piece of advice was terribly helpful, nor was the implication that Gendarme doesn't know how grammar works. I've known some fab writers in the Advanced section who do make minor SpaG errors (as I'm sure literally every writer does) and, while it might be better practice if they didn't make those mistakes, their writing is by no means unreadable and is nevertheless excellent. I am the first to require a certain level of SpaG proficiency in my games, but I have rarely seen anybody refused entry to a game based on their SpaG - and Gendarme's SpaG is certainly not in that category. Implying that they need to do some research into punctuation before their induction to the Advanced section based on one short passage of non-IC text is, I think, an unfair comment on Gendarme's writing and an unfair reflection of the attitude and expectations of the Advanced section.

[Phoenix]

I apologize that my intent for the advice was not stated. And I don't believe I have the patience to debate the subtleties and subjectiveness of (English) grammar. I'd certainly be up for it, but I don't believe that place would be here. Instead, I'll add to what I've suggested.

Punctuation is as much a tool as the words themselves in writing. Learning what phrases need commas and when can help you understand how to form sentences, or to form them without punctuation. Then you can begin to break those rules in order to invoke something in particular.
Also, I'm not suggesting the memorization of every kind of phrase ever and what kind of punctuation they need. Just some light research could help if you're unsure how to go about wording something. (Maybe I'm the only one who actually studies grammar >.>...I'm a geek)

I'll clarify that when I said "edit" I meant "revision" which is not "to correct." It was to alter its execution to provide clarity, however subjective.

And I will purposefully neglect items that will only further unnecessarily heated debate for the sake of keeping this thread on-topic.

[NuttsnBolts]

Much of what I have go say probably has been spoken about already, but this is my 2 cents.

• How do I do a proper collaboration post?
• How do I portray ships, buildings, and inanimate objects in general through writing without sounding boring?
• What is the right amount of detail in most posts? Are there any exceptions?
• I intend to head to an Advanced role-play at some point, but I would like to increase my skill beforehand. Do you have any general writing tips?
• What early signs are there that a role-play will have longevity and not die out quickly? How can I help keep a role-play alive and fun as a poster?

@Gendarme

A good collabs should be written in real time with someone on a site like Google Docs or TitanPad. This allows you to chat with the other individual and write in a fluid mix. Doing so in PMs can often come across very back and forth with a heavy emphasis on one character at a time. The final result just ends up being choppy most of the time.

If you want to describe something, think about how you would explain it to someone that wouldn't mind visiting the place or seeing that object. Descriptive words are your friend in speech, but on some parts maybe over exaggerate. You want to incite imagination and creativity.
I had the pleasure recently of reading a rather boring post about a character's morning. It felt like a chore and they were describing things that had nothing to really do with the scene or objects that didn't need a description.

For advanced... be descriptive, learn proper English, understand your tenses (past, present, and future) and just enjoy yourself.
Descriptive text is the difference between, "the wooden door opened" and, "the old, oak door groaned as it opened, stretching the cobwebs to their limits before snapping the strands". By adding a little more you have described an action and scene.
Proper English is key to allowing others to understand your text. I started using semicolons (;) more often as I learned that they can help in the right situation when you don't want extra conjunctions (and, but, if, etc) "Heavy snow continues to fall at the airport; consequently, all flights have been grounded.
Tenses are rarely talked about but using the right tense can change the feel of a particular section. Want suspense? Use a present tense. I wont go Amy more into this, but read up a bit and you'll see how a good scene is conducted by the timeframe it is presented in.

Finally for a long lasting roleplay... this is always hard. What I look for is what is motivating the characters. If you have a roleplay where the player feels that there is a goal to aim for, then they will place more effort into staying committed. Because of this I'm not a huge fan on create your own adventure as it's relying on the players and honestly... some players can't create their own story lines.
The storyline/motive doesn't have to be much. Pokemon is about being the ultimate Pokemon champion and yet it's been a huge success, and then you have minecraft which is just a giant sandbox. Looking at these two you can see that one has even a small goal, but its something to work with. Take a look at some roleplays and you'd be surprised how many have built an amazing world but have little motivation for the characters in what to do in said world.
Now there is plenty more as to what can keep a roleplay afloat when it comes to players and dropouts and so much more, but the main thing any GM should do is ensure that he or she keeps the players coming back for more.

[Ellri]

• How do I do a proper collaboration post?
• How do I portray ships, buildings, and inanimate objects in general through writing without sounding boring?
• What is the right amount of detail in most posts? Are there any exceptions?
• I intend to head to an Advanced role-play at some point, but I would like to increase my skill beforehand. Do you have any general writing tips?
• In addition, what early signs are there that a role-play will have longevity and not die out quickly? How can I help keep a role-play alive and fun as a poster?

@Gendarme

Hmm... A lot of this has been covered earlier. We'll try not to cover those parts again.

#1: Collabs.
There are many solutions for this. What is right of those methods is subjective. But ideal for collabs is having participating characters and players understand each other at least somewhat. If you understand how your partners' characters work, then it is easy to determine roughly how they'll react and tailor your actions to fit with it.

If you're writing a fighting collab, we feel it is important for the characters not to invulnerable (unless the situation calls for it). Though an expert might be fairly guaranteed to defeat a journeyman in combat, it is not guaranteed that he'll come out of it unscathed. behave how your character would have behaved.

#2: portrayal.
How would your character see it? would (s)he understand what it is, or how it works? if you've got a marauding barbarian, (s)he probably wouldn't care overmuch for calligraphy. Would (s)he care about the sight?

#3: detail.
THe level of detail is subjective for each post/RP.

#4: Advanced.
Read stuff. books. RPs. Anything with the sort of lingual quality you desire.
Don't be afraid to ask questions. Most GMs are helpful.
don't be afraid to jump in the deep end.

tight-knit group that doesn't die after the first dry-spell.

[Dinh AaronMk]

How do I do a proper collaboration post?

@Gendarme

What I've usually done is set up a PM with the other party and we write it out with our own individual posts, and then mutually edit and work it out when it's finished so both are satisfied with the general flow. In this case we might recognize one of the two characters has taken a leading perspective on the matter and it'll be edited to that and posted by the player of that character.

How do I portray ships, buildings, and inanimate objects in general through writing without sounding boring?

Metaphors and similes are going to be your best option and is the most commonly used. Instead of saying, "It was 35 units long, 10 wide, and 80 high" find a comparison in life. "The masts were as tall as trees with a color like that of ragged decay and mildew. Its length was like that of a long street, straight and narrow. But it's entire size inspired fear and awe upon [the character]."

Using more abstract and less direct language to compare X to a more readily known Y can also help in reader connectivity because it allows them their own creative lee-way. Instead of describing something as "red" you might say it was the color of a strawberry sundae or cherry pie.

What is the right amount of detail in most posts? Are there any exceptions?

This is unquantifiable and comes with experience. You will just need to write and gauge how readers react. RP or otherwise.

If the people you're writing with write long posts and you read them, then it's safe to assume if you write a long post they will read them. But if they're writing short-ass posts and you're writing long posts then it's safe to assume no one is reading yours.

I intend to head to an Advanced role-play at some point, but I would like to increase my skill beforehand. Do you have any general writing tips?

Write, read.

What early signs are there that a role-play will have longevity and not die out quickly? How can I help keep a role-play alive and fun as a poster?

When you throw the sacrificial bones upon the fire made of dead Africans and gas-choked Seattle hipsters and the flames turn blue. When the Chinese sing Kalinka. When skies over-head are clear and Tengri's summons are strong.

Then you may ride out from the German castle of Procstratinationburg and ride into the literary world of Russiya.

[Gendarme]

Thank you all for the advice. It is appreciated, and will undoubtedly be thought of when I write. As of this moment, I have no further questions about role-play.