How to write conversations/speech?

[Dion]

As I am always looking for ways to improve my writing, I've been struggling with the topic of speech in roleplays lately. I've been thinking about how I do it, and while I don't think it's bad, I think it could be better.

How I do it generally comes down to writing a paragraph, and adding the speech where necessary. It works, and it's not bad when it comes to readability, but it seems convoluted to me and it's easy to mistake one character for another. I don't want to color code them. I primarily care about the 1x1's I do, and I only color-code my speech when everyone else does. Otherwise, I just use italics.

EX: ... John had been walking around the town for a while now, looking for the specific shop she had told him to meet her at. After what seemed to be countless minutes of walking around, a hand waving in front of his face caused him to snap back to reality. “John? John! How are you?” a feminine voice said to him.

“Uh.. I'm good, how about you?” John replied, looking at the woman. Her pale face ...

So the rule of 'only 1 character speaks per paragraph' is something I've already gotten down. Not that I go out of my way to enforce it but it usually just happens because it writes easier for me.

What I've also thought of was using indents.

EX: ... John had been walking around the town for a while now, looking for the specific shop she had told him to meet her at. After what seemed to be countless minutes of walking around, a hand waving in front of his face caused him to snap back to reality, followed by a feminine voice.

“John? John! How are you?”

He turned towards the woman and smiled (insert more description, fluff and shit).

“Uh.. I'm good, how about you?”

But this just makes it feel like I'm purposefully lengthening my post by making it look longer than it actually is. This is the same reason why I don't split my speech into different lines. It feels fake, like I'm making something longer than it is. The above method also has the effect that I can't really create a flow in my writing - as weird as it sounds, this style of writing speech just kills the flow in a post for me. Even though it's easier to follow and read.

I haven't given other styles of writing speech any thought yet, but I am wondering how you do it, what you prefer, what you think and any other insights you have. Feel free to illustrate.

[tsukune]

The first style is something akin to standard writing format in most types of prose - be it for school compositions, short stories or novels, even writing story outlines for movie and TV productions. And yes, you're correct to say that usually only one speaker per paragraph for clarity of who is speaking at each time, to avoid confusion.

I have never seen or heard about the second style, and I do agree with you that it's just awkward. Not only does it break the reading flow, it's just not something you'd ever see in standard writing (mentioned in my paragraph above). I'd suggest you stick with the first one.

As I'm not a native English speaker, sometimes writing dialogue/character speeches is quite a challenge for me - in terms of making it sound natural as if they are spoken out loud, even if it's actually in written form. One way for me to minimize awkward speeches would be for me to read out loud what I have written in my dialogue, to physically feel how the speeches sound like, the rhythm of the spoken syllables, etc. Researching about slang is also helpful - even in English, there are difference between how an English (someone from UK) would speak and say certain things compared to an American.

[Dion]

@tsukune Yeah, I agree, but I've seen the second style in some books (especially more classical literature in my own country) so I was wondering what the general consensus is. As for my English, English is my fourth language but since I speak English in class every day, not to mention online in voice chats, I've become quite good at that.

The main problem for me is always the size. I don't want my speech to drag on longer than the description that goes with it - it looks strange. It often leads to me adding fluff to the description to make it more balanced, but I don't want to do that, because it's useless. :/

[tsukune]

@Buddha Oh, I wasn't aware that the second style exists in classical literature - I took literature as a subject in middle and high school where the texts I have to study are classics, but I've never come across the second style at all, lol. I'll just take your word for it since I don't know how the books in Netherlands are like.

Also, personally I don't italicize my speeches just to differentiate them from descriptions, because anyone who knows how to read should be able to tell them apart easily. I reserve the use for italics for either emphasis (sometimes when people talk you have the tendency to emphasize certain words to get your point across to others), or if it's to denote the speech is spoken in a different language (i.e. the character is not speaking English, but the dialogue is still written in English so the readers can understand what the speech is about).

_{Nowadays I avoid - or just refuse - to color code character speeches altogether. It's simply a pain in the ass.}

When it comes to writing, since it is text-based - which is visual - so depending on the situation, the paragraph size, indentation, etc. can feel iffy to the writer at times (especially for those who like things to look neat and proper, or at least visually pleasing). However, I feel that in character speeches and dialogues, the sound is more important than the looks - I mean, dialogues are supposed to be spoken text, just in visual form. I'd pay more attention to the sound rather than how it looks to me.

[Dion]

@tsukune they're typically old books that are not so heavy on the action and more on the interactions. Reads more like transcriptions of audio tapes than actual books in segments that are speech heavy. It makes sense then though, because a) you need to split the speech into different paragraphs for each person, and b) there's nothing going on that you need to describe since it's two people talking.

That said I think it's very typical Dutch literature, that isn't even translated due to how old and how .. typically Dutch they are.

Yeah, I guess it's because I want it to look neat and proper, though I also have to admit I don't really.. voice out anything. I don't speak out loud whatever I'm writing, because it seems to come naturally. If that makes sense? Occasionally I'll write something that doesn't flow well but it's generally easy to catch it while writing to me. That's why the thread was focused more on how to write stuff down.

How do you typically write speech/conversations?

[tsukune]

@Buddha Hmm, so something more like writing playscripts or scripts in general? I have learned to write movie scripts in my writing module in college - while not exactly the same, but there are some similarities here and there. (I won't go into details about movie scripting here since it's not the main point of this thread.)

Ah I see, Dutch literature. I've never read English literature books written in the second form before; for Chinese and Japanese, the style of writing speeches is little bit different, which again I won't elaborate too much here.

This is just a sample of a recent collab I did with another player in one of the RPs I'm active in for illustration purpose:

[+]

Haruka looked up at from the tablet to Aislin. Missing? "I'm... sorry to hear that." Then he shook his head. "I have never seen her after that day in the cafe, when she left together with some African-American man." There was no way anyone who was in the cafe on that day would be able to forget that man... not with such a loud and flashy entrance.

Aislin pursed her lips, flicking the screen. "Was it this guy?" The image was much fuzzier as it was taken from the security tape, but it showed the definition of an African man sitting with a drink, head turned to show his faded mohawk.

Haruka stared at the screen, unblinking. "That's him! This... Where did you get this from?" He frowned at Aislin. "Who are you? What's going on?"

Not sure if this helps, but that's how I'd usually write, I guess.

[Dion]

@tsukune It's frequently either scenes where there is something happening (though for these types of literature it's really dull stuff, like, there's this one book I read about a Dutch florist, his wife and their child, and their familial problems in old Dutch times (like, 1960) and there were scenes where all he did was ride around delivering flowers, there were entire scenes dedicated to writing about the different types of flowers, flower-technicalities and other such things, where you'd get some thoughts of the character.

Then there's other scenes where he was talking to his wife, customers, or his child, and such. They were written like that though not exactly. Sometimes a brief description of a new movement/action, but often just back-and-forth conversations.

I think your style of writing is pretty similar to the first style, which is I guess how most people on RPG do it. I'm still curious about other peoples opinions however.

[tsukune]

@Buddha Slice of life-y kind of stories, huh? Well, some people say that stories of this genre can be dull and boring if it's not done well, yeah.

Back and forth conversations - that would be quite similar to how we write in Chinese and Japanese. Maybe a few descriptions here and there to show some movements, change of scene, or character thoughts, but mostly just conversations between characters (but we don't indent like how you illustrated in the second style).

Yes - as I've said, that's the conventional way of speech writing in most types English prose (and well, you were asking how I typically write dialogues, which I thought it's easier to show a sample than me trying to do a fail description, lol). I'm curious to see other forms too, though I'd most probably not adopt the other formats because I'm too used to the standard novel style than the others would probably feel weird to me.

[Dion]

@tsukune Yeah, they were very slice-of-life with drama. Mostly family-drama. For instance this particular novel (which is honestly a favorite of mine because I hated reading literature for school. Not because I hated literature but because it had to be Dutch literature which was boring as fuck.) the drama was all about old friends of his that caused problems in his life, as well as a large amount of money problems (he could not afford to keep the florist business running but hid it from his wife).

So it's not slice-of-life in the sense that literally nothing ever happens. Enough happened, it was just things that happened in real life.
Dutch people are very nosy in other peoples' business, so I guess that's why we liked it.

The indent is something I added myself. Looks.. more neat and tidy. If I didn't indent it, I'd go crazy. In the end the indent doesn't matter much, I think, but I think it's nicer to read. But that differs from person to person?

I'm interested in other formats, and I might adopt some. Often I just mix and match, depending on the style of the RP, my mood, and just general looks.

[Ellri]

We personally stick simply to the aforementioned one person per paragraph rule and "" markings around the speech. We also usually use ' ' around certain types of thoughts (so-called spoken thoughts).

We can't recall if we've ever used colored text on a forum, but when we write collabs in Google docs, we use different colors for each person writing in it. That is, following the rules we mentioned up at the top of the post.

[BrokenPromise]

The less artsy fartsy you are with your writing, the easier it is to read. I'm not sure I'd use anything from classic literature in an RP, regardless of how much I love Alice in wonderland. <3

I very seldom narrate my characters thoughts, usually because the other participants are narrating thoughts like mad and the scenes are more dramatic when you only get to read one side of the story at a time. But when I do, I'm less likely to write:

"I bet I could jump to that ledge over there"

and more likely to write:

She thought about jumping to the ledge. (or he, w/e)

[Dion]

@BrokenPromise Have to say I've never seen someone think like this. Do you really think a one sided scene is better? Don't you think your characters are at least equally important?

[BrokenPromise]

@Buddha

I personally feel that in any written scene, it ruins the drama if you know what two characters are thinking at all times. I even think that a writer should be careful not to write too much about what ONE character is thinking. an example:

Jon: "I'm going to go kiss Rebecca, because I think she likes me."

Rebecca: "Hello Jon, you wanted to see me-"

Jon: *kisses Rebecca*

VS

Jon: "I'm going to go see Rebecca, I have something to give her."

Rebecca: "Hello Jon, you wanted to see me-"

Jon: *kisses Rebecca*

In the first example, Jon spoils his own story. There's no dramatic tension, he does what he set out to do. In the second example, we are held in anticipation as we wait for Jon to give Rebecca whatever it is he wants to give her. And we are surprised when it turns out to not be an object, but a kiss. There's an extra level of excitement when we don't know if Rebecca even wants to be kissed or not, and watching her reaction unfold is more interesting when we aren't really sure EXACTLY what her thoughts are leading up to this point.

The only time I see the first version being a better option than the second is if Jon's plan goes wrong. Maybe he screws up the kiss, or Rebecca actually loathes him. But if these were two different roleplayers, the second option is almost always better because of it's flexibility. It certainly isn't a bad option if things go south after the kiss.

Just recently I wrote a scene where a valiant ranger (Isylte) escorted my thief slash pyromancer (Veronica) to one of her hideouts. Veronica had helped save a village, so Isylte fet she owed her a ride home. Once they get there, Veronica got extremely comfortable with Isylte and invited her to do things like eat some of her food, stay and talk, etc. Isylte's player did a good job of letting us see her thoughts without revealing exactly what she planned to do next. The ranger wasn't very trusting, and was in the company of an unsavory thief. You didn't know if she was going to draw steel, run away, or continue to entertain Veronica. In the end, Veronica revealed that she's actually has few friends and just wants Isylte to be one. Had I narrated every thought that entered Veronica's head, the scene would have lost it's tension. We'd have all known Isylte's caution was misplaced.

I do not feel that hiding my character's thoughts makes them less important. Many times I feel it makes them more interesting to other players. Veronica has some mental problems and by not narrating her thoughts, she keeps her unpredictable nature. Her teacher on the other hand, I narrate his thoughts a lot. Reading his thoughts gives a better look at what veronica is doing and how she is viewed by a friend who knows her. But I only do that if he's in a scene alone with Veronica, or the other player isn't doing much thought narrating.

[tsukune]

@BrokenPromise I think it's important to know how to balance between saying too much and thinking too much. Conversions in real life are full of hidden subtexts because realistically few people will speak out their mind so openly without any filters, and not many people would take ages to think so thoroughly to give others a one-line response (no matter how carefully-chosen the words are, nobody would think that far lol).

Sometimes it's perfectly fine to write short paragraphs with quality dialogue and character thoughts, than quantity of pointless purple prose, yeah.

[Vilageidiotx]

The way I try and do it is to use "Said" when I think the speaker might be unclear, and otherwise I just leave it hanging and figure the reader will work it out based on context. Example...

"The bus is late." Joe said, looking down at his watch as if it had just insulted his mother.

"Bus is always late. It's been like that since I moved to this neighborhood." Larry replied, calmly rocking back and forth on his heels.

"I can't be late. Skipped two days of work this week already. If I skip a third..."

"Flu?"

"Yes." Joe said with a sniff. "I shouldn't be going. If I miss today, that's it. I'm done."

"It's been goin' 'round."

"I know. I don't recommend it."

The two men became quiet for a time. In the fog they looked to each other like outlines, bodies where one man could imagine the other as anything. Another form joined them. It started as a low moan on the street, followed by a high pitched squeal and the appearance by a behemoth of shadow in the fog.

"Ah." Joe said. "It's about time."

It is really easy in RP writing for a person to assume others aren't actually paying attention. That's probably one of my biggest flaws as a writer; assuming the reader needs everything spelled out for them. But if you worry too much about it, you can end up creating clunky sentences...

...or, god help us all, coloring the text like it were somebody's forgotten myspace page.

[BrokenPromise]

@tsukune I don't think it's hard to balance at all. You can almost never say too little. But that's my style. I like bullet dialog and people to not quite know what some of my characters are thinking. Something that hasn't quite been touched on in this topic is character gestures. You can give insight into a character's thoughts by how they twitch their lips, brow, and arms.

Veronica's eyes wondered over to Isylte. "Wait, what the heck do they feed the women around here!?" The pyromancer scowled and pointed a quivering finger at the ranger. "How did you get so tall?"

The battle maiden was crouched on one knee on top of the table, her bow drawn and two arrows notched, aimed for Veronica. “Nothing out of the ordinary. Should I be asking you if you've been drinking enough milk?” Isylte calmly asked, remaining crouched.

Veronica folded her arms. "I...I don't like milk." She scrunched up her nose. "It tastes nasty."
“Well, the only way to get big and strong is to eat the breadcrusts and drink milk,” Isylte said speaking as though Veronica were a child.

@Vilageidiotx

Nah, nothing wrong with giving the reader help. I've actually had an extremely nitpicky guy tell me that he read some of my dialog to his friends in the wrong voice because of where the hints were placed. So I usually have my character gestures in front of the dialog instead of behind it.

...But ditto on myspace colors. Some methods of informing the reader are just counterproductive.

[Vilageidiotx]

Nah, nothing wrong with giving the reader help. I've actually had an extremely nitpicky guy tell me that he read some of my dialog to his friends in the wrong voice because of where the hints were placed. So I usually have my character gestures in front of the dialog instead of behind it.

@BrokenPromise

That can create a redundancy problem though. Repeating any sentence structure too much can make the prose tedious.

[BrokenPromise]

Oh you obviously mix it up. Nothing in writing is black and white or set in stone. But if you're going to have a character join a conversation, or there are otherwise no good "hints" to let the reader know who's speaking, it doesn't hurt to have the speaker mentioned first instead of after. A few examples:

Bob scratched the back of his neck "Damn these flies are horrible!"

Tina ran a finger along her collar bones. "I know what we could do for fun..."

Fred patted Joseph on the back. "She'l be back soon."

Sophie clapped her hands together. "Wonderful! We start our journey now!"

It's less important if there are only two characters in a particular scene. But if you have three or more, you need to work much harder to make sure everything is being said by the correct people.

[Ellri]

We rather like to have thoughts and such written out that are not fully revealed by the spoken words. A character asks about future plans, yet merely thinks about one of the worse what-if scenarios. That provides the other player with material to work out future actions/dialogue from, despite nothing about actually having been stated out loud.

Even a character choosing not to speak a reply is useful for dialogue in a story. Sometimes the best piece in a dialogue can be that which isn't spoken, rather than what is.

[Phoenix]

I, personally, like to mix the way I write out dialogue.

I'll end a paragraph with dialogue. Start a new paragraph with dialogue and then describe what they did as they said it or what they did after speaking. Then I write a response, describing what that character did. And then I'll stop using descriptors and continue with strings of just dialogue where the reader understands that it's between these two characters and have learned a sense of their personality by previous descriptors.

I don't like the idea of flooding dialogue with extraneous descriptions since it breaks the flow of natural dialogue and will take away from the reader interpreting the characters on their own. If I'm a good enough writer, I gave them enough information so the reader can subliminally insert information.

However, I've seen dialogue in the manner in the second example:
Dialogue

Description

Dialogue

Description

It's very choppy, yes, but it, like any other formats, can have its uses.