Christianity in RP?

[Masaki Haruna]

For starters. If executed right, Gods in RP fit but if not, it sucks, I know good RPs with their Percy Jackson stuff. I'd like to know if a Christian theme RP// MORE LIKE HOW IT WORKS if applied into an RP. All I need to know is the right execution and the do's and don'ts.

Obvious stuff would be killing demons etc. How strong thy faith and all.

I plan on making an RP that of Christianity or totally a Christian RP.

[Shoryu Magami]

The setting of the main story project I'm working on, which is also the setting for most of the role-playing I've done, has a Christian-focused faction in it, but I wouldn't really call my setting conventional, so some of the advice I could suggest to you wouldn't be entirely appropriate. Concepts like demons are also recurrent to an extent in my work, though, again, they're not conventional. On the example you used involving destroying demons with faith, that particular element also exists in the project, but it's also a bit unorthodox and the way that faith works is a bit different too. In short, I have plenty of advice, but I don't know how relevant any of it would be since I don't know how typical you want the setting of this role-play to be.

Perhaps the most appropriate advice I can give you involves the portrayal of the faith itself. I'm not a Christian (at least not in the conventional sense), but part of my own philosophy required me to gain a lot of insight into all the religions (and all of their branches), and the first mistake I can tell you that most role-players, or even just writers in general, make is this; getting the portrayal of the religion accurate in the first place. If you're not a practicing Christian yourself, I think the most important thing is to do your research. Learn about what the followers are supposed to believe in, the values they're meant to hold onto and live according to in everyday life, and anything else that will make the portrayal believable. There's far too many works of fiction out there that try to portray a religion (I'll be blunt here, nine out of ten times they just do it to bash the religion) and the way it's presented feels incredibly fake.

So that's my biggest bit of advice to you; make sure you have the fundamentals right. Unless the character in question is supposed to be a false believer (because, realistically, not all people who call themselves Christians are true Christians), I generally portray the characters who follow a faith in my story very accurately to a true follower, whether those characters are affiliated with the faction I meant earlier or just independent believers. If you'll find it useful, I can potentially send you a PM with more specifics on that matter, if bringing up the specifics of various faiths is too troublesome here. I don't really know exactly what sort of information you're looking for based on your opening post alone, and I'd prefer not be too public for the time being about revealing my own work.

[Obscene Symphony]

I would tend to agree with @Shoryu Magami up there, with the exception of only playing 'true follower' characters. The subject of Christianity is a tricky one as well because there are so many different types/denominations, all with somewhat differing beliefs (for example, the difference between Catholics and Calvinists is quite a bit, not to mention lots of other denominations in between). So, even if you're a practicing Christian, if you're playing a character outside your denomination, I recommend research. A mistake I see with a lot of RPs with Christian themes is that they default to the mainly Catholic way of things as if that's the only type of Christianity out there.

accidental book about characters because I got off-track

As for 'true followers', I'd have to say it's pretty hard to define a true follower. Splitting the issue up by denomination would help, and you could make a character who follows all of that denomination's doctrines, but it's important to remember that everyone practices faith differently, and many teachings differ even from church to church or pastor to pastor within a denomination. So it's pretty hard to make a 'true Christian' since often, everyone is taught a little differently. (There's a whole debate on that topic, but I have no interest in getting into it).

On the subject of characters, I also have great interest in imperfect followers: maybe they're simply interpreting their faith in a unique, personal way; maybe they disagree with some teachings, but still consider themselves Christian; maybe they're a die-hard believer who's recently started to lose faith in God; or maybe they say their prayers and go to church every sunday, but abandon those ideals every other day of the week; there are a million and one ways to go, and they all tend to be a bit more intriguing than your regular, good-hearted Christians.

As for execution as a setting/theme, which is more to what you're actually looking for, I'd say to read up on Christian mythology. There are a lot of interesting stories in the bible - even for the non-religious, if you consider them to simply be stories, they're pretty good - and they're great to incorporate into the lore of an RP.

As for do's and don't's, I'll again recommend to do your research on whatever denomination you're going with (it helps to actually talk to people about it, I'm sure they'd be happy to explain their faith to you if you asked them). If you're going to, say, mix various denominational beliefs together or change something, just mention that you did, so nobody gets confused or offended. (You'll notice it's very hard to please everyone - just do the best you can). It's a good idea not to make an attitude like "God is evil" or "Christianity is bad" or anything like that, because people will get offended and on the internet it's best to avoid drama. If you want to spin it that way, I recommend creating a fictional religion from scratch.

[Shoryu Magami]

@Obscene Symphony
Yeah, you've essentially gone into some of the other points I would've touched on if they'd responded to my initial post, since I wanted to get some idea of what sort of information they were after first, given that the original post was a little vague.

I should probably make a point that it seems my post has been a little misinterpreted; I never suggested that only a true follower be portrayed, but more that they understand how a true Christian is supposed to behave (as opposed to the constantly misrepresented fictional ones) before they start making more individual characters. Essentially, I suggested that they made sure they had their base right before they started building characters from it, because most writers don't even get that part right. When I use the term true follower, you should think of it as me saying a believable follower. Naturally, this will change significantly depending on the denomination, which is another detail in my own setting that's too complicated to get into for the time being (admittedly there is a lot of Catholic elements in my project, and justified by where the main church faction is located, but it's actually a lot more complex than that, and other denominations are touched on), but I have a wide range of characters in my story who would in some form of another be classified as being Christian yet show very different behaviours.

Some of them the characters within my setting who would be thought of as Christians aren't even believers at all and are merely using the church for their own agendas (which is sadly also truth in the real world at times), some of them are more regular believers, while others are hypocrites or bigots. There's some of them who are actually are building their spiritual awakening beyond being bound to dogma, while others are completely reliant on it, and that's not even bringing up the characters who have plot arcs centred around having a crisis of faith. Of course, some are also the non-practicing lip service types you mentioned with the comment about only practicing on Sunday too. So yeah, I definitely wouldn't say I only portray staple Christians in the project. Felt I needed to set that straight, since it seems I was misread. In fact, most of the examples you gave appear somewhere in my project in the form of one character or another. One of my associates has complimented how fleshed out and real the characters in my project are, citing their diversity as just one example.

Other than that, there's not much else for me to add since you got some of the other points, and I'd need more information about what the original poster is looking for. As for the whole idea of not going down the "God is evil" or "Christianity is bad" route, I definitely think that's good advice (though given how they spoke about banishing demons and the power of faith, it doesn't seem like they were going that route; that's why I never brought it up), mostly because so many writers these days seem to do that simply for the sake of being supposedly edgy, or because they want to bash religious people, and I don't think I ever see them actually give any sort of solid or intelligent argument for it either. In terms of my own project, I like to think I portray Christianity as more neutral (realistic), not inherently bad but not perfect either; it has plenty of good but it has its flaws too. In terms of God, well, if we're talking about a true God instead of a false one, I give a much more positive reception on that front, but it's a very complex story and I'm almost certain a person who doesn't understand the concepts properly likely would end up incorrectly grasping it all and assume I'm insinuating the opposite.

I can't really say more without spoiling far more than I'd like to though. Not only that, but the controversial nature of the project is just one of several reasons why I'm currently not revealing my work publically here. Not that I particularly I care what anyone thinks or if they want to start drama with me, since I can just ignore them anyway.

Either way, good to see someone else pitching in on this. I didn't want to give any sort of in-depth answer until I understood the kind of story and setting the original poster was actually looking for with this role-play.

I'll leave it for now. Haven't slept in quite a while.

[HalfOfLancelot]

@Masaki Haruna

You may not know it, but quite a few things are inherently inspired by Christianity. I think most of it's pretty subtle, but the more overt ones are pretty much anything angels and demons related.

I think, depending on what you're going for, it can either just be any other RP or it'll cause a shitstorm.

7 Deadly Sins/7 Heavenly Virtues is cliche and used a lot.

Demon Hunting

Anything supernatural related will either focus on cryptids and mythical monsters (think bigfoot to wendigos) or it'll go the whole spectrum of Vampires to Demons to Angels. But, also, if you're going for something Christianity related, it's not only going to hit Christianity. If you're using things from scripture, especially angels or holy figures, you're likely going to touch base on Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, as there are plenty of points where they both mix. Plenty where they don't, either, such as Djinn or the general concept of angels and demons that a Jewish friend explained to me in Judaism.

Regardless, I think you're safe to use most everything concerning Christianity as long as you don't actually touch figures like Jesus or even the Apostles. I'm a practicing Christian, myself, and the only thing that makes me uncomfortable concerning writing and Christianity is if Jesus is mentioned or used, at all, as anything. It's not offensive, it just makes me squirm a bit; doesn't sit well with me, personally, if I'm involved.

But, I'm also fascinated by everything and anything occult, so I'm extremely interested in angel and demon lore, in particular.

If you're talking about using Christianity as the entire basis of an RP, I don't... think that would be an issue? It wouldn't be for me, in particular. People are free to have their own opinions, but I still think respect goes a long way. So, even if your RP is satirical or lowkey making fun of Christianity, you can still be respectful about it. It's hard, but it's possible. Just, in general, respect for anything culture or religion-wise in your writing goes a long, long, long way. So, if it's anything that uses Christianity intensively, then I'd go to great lengths to research everything, even the things that might not be necessarily canonical.

If it's just a bunch of demon killing and angels and all that, then, really, it's all up to you. So many things draw from a religious standpoint, so whatever you're doing that involves these things can have a basis and inspiration drawn from Christianity without being Christianity. A good example of this is WH40K's space marines and all those heretic memes floating around.

As a hard list, though.

Do's:
-Fill in the lore gaps (angels and demons have very malleable lore; they're changed on a whim; research scripture on various faiths about them, if you like)
-Lessen your mentions about God; make faith either more community oriented or more personal. It's about how faith affects a character, or a group of characters, or an organization, rather than the faith itself.
-Research. Research. Research. Read passages from the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc. Even if you don't believe in them, they're great inspiration for fictional works.
-The Good vs. Bad is a tried and true concept. Don't be afraid to use it, but also don't be afraid to subvert it. There are grey areas and making everything grey works extremely well too, if you know how manipulate perspectives. For help on this, try reading up on the crusades; it's easy to think you're fighting for the good guys, but they're the actually the baddies. It's hard to string it along and make it seem like they're still the good guys, if not... a bit misguided.
-Have an idea of what your plot is before diving head long into filling everything with Christianity. Having a simple idea is best. A goal, a conflict, a setting. And then putting in the other information; you'll have a better idea of what in Christianity fits where and if it even works at all.
-Being vague leaves things to the imagination, but know when to be vague and when to give necessary info.
-Depending on the situation and the RP, I think it's best to either work for/with the Christian faith or against it. Having too many variables can muck things up unnecessarily and that includes allowing people to play as villains. But, I'm biased because I hate having things split down the middle. For me, I only ever enjoy having one solid group. Whatever works for you and the RP (but, if your RP is plot intensive and linear, I'd heavily suggest you either disallow villains entirely or allow people you trust to play them. This is purely because having someone you don't know be in charge of a specific plot point and how it goes is very, very tricky)

Don't's:
-Try to stay away from using specific religious figures. Saints are okay, as they are numerous and plentiful, and can essentially be created canon or not. This also dives into Catholicism. But, try to avoid people like Jesus or Peter, or Matthew unless you have a solid idea of who they are and what they represent and can do so tastefully. (research is your best friend)
-Sects. Don't label your specific idea of Christianity. Keep it vague to avoid putting yourself into a restrictive box, concerning ideas and canon.
-I keep saying it, but it's what works for this instance: keep the idea of God vague. Like I said before, it's about the characters and their faith, not about the faith itself.
-Don't just wing it. Have an idea of what you're doing. More importantly, have an idea of what your backstory is for whatever world you're in. If it's just modern day, then have a backstory for whatever you're putting into the world 'n shit.
-Don't brush people off in your OOC when they're concerned about something and it affects them mentally. In this day and age, it's pretty easy to just wave off things when people get offended, especially in writing because "It's fiction, so what's it matter?" It's easy to be a dick, but it's also easy to tank your reputation with some great writers. Be willing to change things if people are finding it unsavory. You don't have to, but it's common courtesy and will earn you a lot of respect from a lot of people. There's a difference between caving in or pandering and being a decent person. In other words, don't be a dick about this shit, especially if it's not something you're actually a part of or practice, in real life.

That's all I have, though. Just remember, I'm one person and this is just advice, so take it all with a grain of salt. It all is really dependent on what you're going for. Some things really don't need a do/don't advice thread, like 7 Deadly Sins Roleplays or ones in the supernatural genres. But I do understand where you're coming from: you want something that's guaranteed to work.

[Vilageidiotx]

Catholicism is the traditional vehicle for this sort of thing since it has a broader mythology than Protestantism. That's where you'll get all your good saints and hierarchy of angels stuff. You can do Protestantism too, it's just way simpler and most of it nixes the hierarchy of heaven. There is always the other branches, but that'd take deeper research for a modern westerner, whereas using Catholicism or Protestantism gives you a bit of a boost since western culture is so built upon those religions that you'll find a lot of it familiar.

It might not be a bad idea to get a hold of a bible. Even read the mutha if you have time, though I can tell you from experience that reading the bible front to back as a non-believer can get a bit dull. If you are not getting that serious though, just having one handy wouldn't be a bad idea.

Also check out all the little books that fell between the cracks. Things that Jews, Gnostics, or the Ethiopians have adopted, because that's where a lot of the back-story you see in stuff like Supernatural comes from.

If you want to check out some lighter reading that can help you with the subject matter, check out Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost. These are not as old and stilted as the religious texts themselves, and they play an important role in shaping how we perceive the larger Christian mythology. Dante's Inferno creates a specific map of the after-life that people have been reusing since it came out, and Paradise Lost basically game us the modern perspective on Lucifer that has been replayed in fiction ever since.

[Dinh AaronMk]

To sort of go off of what @Vilageidiotx said about Catholicism vs Protestantism: in how I've perceived the Protestant-Catholic split, the Protestant churches didn't do much to adopt the cosmology of the Catholic Church, or I've never seen it as being as prominent or widely spoken of. Like in my time as a Presbyterian no one every went on and on about the Archangel Micheal or Gabriel in Sunday School and at sermon.

Of course, I also never really attended a Catholic sermon, so I can't compare. Neither have I ever attended an Episcopalian or Baptist sermon.

But I think if you're going to do anything with the Protestant field then the obvious best framework for that would be the Thirty Years War or some crazy history nerd shit me and Vilage would whip our dicks out too. I don't know of anything seriously heavy in mysticism outside of Appalachian Christianity in the Protestant fields.

Or alternatively if you still need it a world theme then any setting where-in individual reading and interpretation of the bible or some shit is important. But fuck if I know. Going back on what Vilage said John Milton and Dante is probably your best and most straight-forward reference to an RP based on Christian magic and mythology which defaults you to the realm of the Catholic hierarchy.

Arguably you may be able to find something in the Eastern (Greek/Russian/Armenian/Georgian) Orthodox Church, but that implies you're having faith in people wanting to be Greek, Slavs, Georgians, or Armenians; which also has a relatively simplified hierarchical structure (at least on Earth, where all bishops are equal in rank among their peers and there's no supreme bishop like the Pope, what there may be is largely nominal or exists because of close inter-relation with the supreme secular monarch/ruler of the realm).

[Masaki Haruna]

I knew the answer all along but thanks guys, not yet done. I'm a Christian myself, I practice it and I've been for 2 years already. Preach it!

The Bible is basically the answer as long as its the original one. I'd like to do more research and yes, I want it to work.

@HalfOfLancelot @Vilageidiotx Thanks.

@Obscene Symphony Thanks. @Shoryu Magami Most helpful.

Like every believer said, if you know who is your God, the answer is clear. Sorry if I'm sounding too preachy.

My turn to reply as I just talked to my Pastor a while ago.

My concepts while forming the fundamentals of the RP are these:

Everyone is created by Christ but those who do not acknowledge him as the be all is bound to be on Mr. S side. As a believer, I have noticed the difference that unbelievers gets to experience a lot more dipshit dissatisfaction compare to believers.

What I have experienced in my life for the past two years and witnessed is that, believers while they face many storms in life, they continue smiling and moving on.

For instance like Apostle Paul who was once Saul. One would call him a screw up in the head because he loves trials. That is something I don't wanna discuss further because I am afraid to offend people but I'll discuss anyway.

What defines a true believer?

This is not RP base yet but I am about to do it.

A true believer has a lot of love with them. This is very much true. For the past two years in my life, my fellow believers who are now my friends gave me a lot of love even though I was such an a-hole to them.

They overcome evil with good and does not repay it with evil.

They have a forgiving heart which is something we properly can't comprehend but in the long run it will.

You see faith is something that can't be comprehend properly but love is the greatest as it over comes all. Blessed are those who believe and because they do not see Christ, their faith hungers for more and as they progress. Good results happen. For example, a drug addict coming to repent.

To cut it short. A true believer is with Christ, they acknowledge that alone they can do little but with him they can do great exploits as Paul said, "I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me."

A true believer has a lot of love as well. The 10 commandments is always present no matter what.

I'm sorry if I wasted some time asking things I already know but it's just my critical thinking habits on wanting to make something work.

As for demons. The Devil is Mr. S and he's a sore loser.

For Jesus. The saying goes as things happen for a reason. God's ways are higher than man.

Now for a Christian based RP

I have come to a conclusion that, characters are totally and absolutely gonna be like gold tested in fire meaning they will face great tribulations to see how far their faith goes. LOTS OF CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

My conclusion
I know well the basis of what is a true believer and what is faith. Faith is ever growing.

If I were to make a Christian RP. The best way is not to throw all the lores in one go. Harry Potter has good lores and world building but they don't shove it in our asses/throats in one chapter. It's per book.

Thanks guys.

That said. If I were to pursue this. I'd like you guys to be part of it.

[ArenaSnow]

Supernatural's a good source to look at.

[Dinh AaronMk]

The Bible is basically the answer as long as its the original one. I'd like to do more research and yes, I want it to work.

@Masaki Haruna

What original one? The Greek, Hebrew, or Latin one? Or the odd collection of books that may or may not have existed prior to any of the dozen synods in the 4th century that determined the canonical books of The Bible?

[Masaki Haruna]

@Dinh AaronMk Did some research.

I strongly believe Hebrew. Unless you might know other versions.

I'm on the process of getting my concepts right for content of the story I am making.

The obvious fact would be, events of the bible happened except revelation of course. For example Creation and today, the whole human from ape evo theory is made up and nobody knows this and only a few.

[Shoryu Magami]

I had planned to make another post in this thread a few days ago, but things got a bit more hectic with the notes for my project. While things have hardly settled down, I figured I'd take out the time to do it now before I end up just forgetting about it when I get buried in my work.

After reading all these posts, I like how people have brought up several of the facets of Christianity that I had planned to address once I had a better understanding of what the original poster was actually looking for in a reply, such as the books that were never included in the biblical "canon", the various denominations, and the multitude of unconventional groups who could in many ways be considered siblings to Christianity of sorts (Gnosticism, Kabbalah, etc). A lot of people also fail to understand that the Islamic faith stems from the same tree as Christianity in the same way that Christianity stems from the same tree as Judaism.

One of the reasons that many Christians, regardless of their denomination, fail to have a real understanding of their religion beyond the more basic and superficial groundwork, is that they don't actually research and understand the religion's history and origins, nor do they take the time to grasp all of the branches of it that went into other directions. This bleeds right over into the work of role-players and writers who actually consider themselves Christians, not just those who aren't Christian or are non-religious, since they write without the larger picture of the religion in mind. Like I said previously; many writers use Christian lore as the basis for their work (or just delve into the mythology a bit), but few actually do it accurately or with noteworthy insight.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, tests of faith are often one of the best methods of storytelling if you want to have a story that works with religious themes, because characters who merely live based on blind faith are far less sympathetic and human than a character who has to overcome a variety of crises of their faith. This is a recurring theme within my own work, though I once again emphasize that I am hardly what you would call a Christian (at least in the conventional sense).

I wanted to gauge what the original poster was actually looking for in this role-play before I started giving my views on how to present it; outside of the obvious advice of making sure they research the religion and do so from as many possible perspectives as they can find. I'm firmly of the belief that if a person does not thoroughly research and understand the opposing beliefs to their own ideology then they are living according to a blind faith, and blind faith does not bring one closer to their God. I also believe a person has no right to criticize or have an opinion of a philosophy or world view unless they research and understand it thoroughly too.

The Hebrew scriptures are a good place to start when looking for a better understanding of the biblical canon, especially because the present day Bible has actually largely changed and mistranslated a good portion of it in order to cater to their own perspectives of how they want people to view the religion. The only way the Hebrew scriptures will be truly useful to you though is if you can speak the ancient language yourself, since any English translations of it will also be modified. This is also a recurrent problem with the New Testament, as much of what is contained within it is only a select group of books that were chosen in order to create a contained belief system, and they removed any books that they considered problematic to their intentions. This is why people should study all of them, in order to gain an actual insight into their own beliefs. As I've stated before, pursuing faith with closed eyes does not help one get closer to God.

There's a lot more I can say, but for the time being I'll leave it at this once again. There's also the possibility this could go off into a philosophy discussion instead of remain a role-play discussion, so I'll stop. As for the role-play itself, I doubt I'll be able to participate since my priority is my own project and I already delve very heavily into religion from all angles with it; there is unlikely to be much going on in a role-play themed around Christianity that I wouldn't already be touching on in my work. Since I have no significant interest in role-playing without using my own project's characters (and these characters really do not translate over to other settings properly), I should also decline on this front as well. I do hope it all works out well for you though.

[Masaki Haruna]

@Shoryu Magami Thank you very much. I'll lay low in the meantime and work on my project as well.
You've been very helpful. Speaking of which, what's your project?

[Shoryu Magami]

@Masaki Haruna
No problem at all. As stated previously, due to my philosophy and world view I've researched pretty much all of the religions to various extents and continue to do so when I have time. It's one of the several fields that I specialize in due to my primary field of interest branching over into many others, so I like discussing it and helping people when they need some insight on the subject.

I think the idea you have could be interesting, since I put a lot of time into writing around the concept of a crisis of faith myself. I figured it would be a good idea to give my thoughts here both to help you move your idea forward and to shed a little light for others who want to delve into this type of writing/role-play.

As for my own project; I'll avoid going into a lot of detail here since I'm currently not willing to divulge too much information about it publically and I prefer to discuss it with a few people over PM as a result of that, but it's called "Guardian Ascension". It's a very large scale project I've been working for many years that is both a representation of my life and experiences while also being a metaphor for my philosophical world view and many of my ideas and thoughts. While it does have a lot of fictional elements, they all serve as a sort of symbology for that philosophy alongside being there for creative purposes. I guess you could say it's a series of philosophy books as much as it's a series of stories, and social commentary is a big part of it too. It only makes sense that religion/spirituality would play a part in such a personal and meaningful project that focuses on things like the human condition and philosophy.