Dating, Attraction, Romance and the Good/Bad Advice that goes with it.

[Dolerman]

Hello my Darling Incels, Shyguys, and Forever Alones, this is a thread where we critique the dating advice that is commonly given to us.

Ive been working as a Speed dating event host, and a matchmaker for a year and a half now, and the AMOUNT of trash dating advice ive had to argue against and filter is astounding, when I look around me, I see a lot of perfectly good men and women who are single, lonely and looking and I blame the crap that the Rom-Com movie and Fanfic generation has been telling them, so lets do some MYTHBUSTING

1. HEY GUYS, JUST BE CONFIDENT, GIRLS ARE ATTRACTED TO TEH CONFIDENCE**** HERP DERP

The confidence really does need more asterixs, I summed it up nicely in another thread.

This whole "women are attracted to confidence" bullshit is getting old, very old. When women say they are attracted to confidence, do you know what they are really saying?
"We are attracted to good looking, tall men who have the confidence to approach us after we have given them the green light to do so". Telling an ugly guy to just be "confident" is like putting lipstick on a pig.

And plus 'JUST BE CONFIDENT' is bad advice in itself, if you arent naturally confident then forcing it is going to make you come across awkward, obnoxious and a massive doucenozzle, you will scare off everyone around you and attract counter-douchery for your false act. You need to start by LIKING YOURSELF MORE and becoming more
COMFORTABLE about things about you, and confidence will SLOWLY AND STEADILY come with it, but don't think for a second that even that will MAGICALLY GET YOU A DATE, oh no Incel, you got more work to do.

The confidence is attractive thing really is a misunderstanding. People who you already have the potential to be attracted to stand out more when they are confident, when you are confident you are being given screen time, and you are getting more chance to showcase your pretty feathers, but only if you have pretty feathers!! Its a revelation, not a transformation trick. If you are already funny, she will notice it more, if you are already hot, he will notice it more, if you are already interesting they will notice it more with CONFIDENCE but that's all it really does.

Also, the idea that girls like confidence can also be attributed to the fact that confidence usually entails making the first move.......because we all know..

2. HEY GURLS IF YEW APPROACH THE DUDE FIRST THEN IT SEEMS DESPERATE, IF HE LIKEZ YOU HE WILL COME TO YOUUU DERP

NO, not nessecarily, he might think you are super beautiful and the second coming of hideyoshi (haha) but he's not going to approach you if he's SHIT SCARED OF TALKING TO YOU or SHIT SCARED OF BEING REJECTED, or I dont know, DOESNT WANT TO APPROACH SOMEONE RANDOMLY CAUSE HE THINKS HE WILL SEEM LIKE A PEST, there are plenty of reasons a guy wont approach you and none of them mean he doesn't genuinely like you, but its just such a massive risk to put yourself out there and try and be 'laid back, but still enthusiastic' at the same time. Its like the world tells men: Hey guys don't act like you are all eager to talk to her, be chill about it.....but you still have to say the first thing, be interesting, without being odd, be funny without being too dorky, dont talk too fast, dont talk too slow etc etc.

Girls there is absolutely nothing wrong with going up to a guy you like, its not DESPERATE, it totally depends on what you say, if youre like:

Can I Haz Permission to lick teh handsome face desu?

OMG I TOTALLY WANT TO LICK YOUR FACE HUSBANDO

then yes that's desperate, terrifying even But that doesn't stop you at One Direction concerts does it...
But if you go up to a totally hot guy and are like:

Imagine shes standing up...

Hey I'm trying to pick out a new coat to go with this hat in this magazine, in your opinion which looks the least hipsterish? :P

Then no one is going to think you are a desperate or loose, or easy, you are just being social, its not a 'sign'.

3. OH MY GODZ DYNAMU, DONT BE GENORILIZING, ITS NOT ALL ABOUT LOOKS ITS ABOUT TEH PERSONALITY, AND LOOKZ ARE TEH SUBJECTIVES!1!!

Beauty On the Inside

This is one of the most twisted half truths I've ever heard....

Are looks subjective? yes
Does Personality matter? yes

But does that mean that giving advice based on this isolated fact in a world where there are obvious patterns and trends in the way we perceive beauty a good Idea? HELL NO

Yes everyone likes different things, some women like men who stink. does that mean we tell men to stop showering JUST IN CASE, no.
You have to generalise to be practical, and its ridiculous to fool ourselves thinking everything is this perfect swirling blossom of different opinions and tastes.....THERE ARE SOME HARD TRUTHS

Most women are going to prefer a guy taller than them
Most women are going to prefer a guy somewhere close to their age usually not younger though
Most women like men who dont shit thier pants during the 3rd date and then try and clean it up with the tablecloth...

do you get the point? We have to generlise for somethings to give good advice!

And this everyone is attractive to someone thing as well, THANK YOU FOR THAT TECHNICAL POSSIBILITY

Yes its technically possible, that there are women out there who find this man absolutely irresistable


but I have a strange intuition that maybe this guy is going to rank slightly higher on general scale



LETS JUST BE MORE HONEST AND PRACTICAL WITH GENERALIZATIONS PEOPLE!!!!

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So I will be adding more as we go on, but I want to here from YOU whats some Good or Bad dating advice you would like me to comment on. Or if you have any questions or comments Then you know exactly where to stick them I would love to hear x

[Dolerman]

4 HEY GUYS JUST HAVE FUN AT NIGHTCLUBS AND THE GIRLS WILL COME TO YOU




Need I say more?
(WIP)

Just like nightclubs and bars, online dating is an extremely shallow and superficial environment to try and meet women, but what's even worse, with online dating, your photo (what you will be mostly judged on) is what either makes you or breaks you. At least with meeting a woman in bar, you may get lucky and find a woman who may like your personality (and that's a very big IF), but with online dating, if a woman does not like they way you look, you will either be ignored or rejected (assuming she even bothers to read your message and replies).

[AoStar]

So, I'm reading this thread after some time away from roleplaying. I came back here not to really roleplay, but because I wanted some familiarity in my life that seems to keep changing. I just want to chat, really.

One thing I noticed about this somewhat humorous post, is that it's directed mainly towards men. And it just may be my self-loathing personality, but I just so happened to stumble onto this after reading numerous threads on other sites on being ugly, as *gasp* a woman!

"Most women date tall guys, most women date handsome guys. Women should approach men more!" This seems to be the consensus on a lot of dating "advice" sites that it's pretty disheartening if you're a female that's not particularly attractive. Not to say that I disagree with this post, but I can never really find one that pertains to me.

Many posts like this target the less-than-attractive male and how he should "get the girl", while also giving the impression that women can just pull men with their breasts. I mean, it may happen in animu, but not in real life. All those guys that claim they would lay with any female really wouldn't, unless they were particularly drunk, somewhere in a dark place where no one would see, and they were sure they would never have to meet with her again.

My point is that these types of posts sound right, but really excludes a lot of things, making the advice not really work in real life. Believe me, some guys do see you as desperate when you approach them, especially when you really are desperate and kinda hard to look at.

[ASTA]

Basically:

1) Men prefer women who have lighter skin, who have large breasts, who have facial features that are symmetrical, who have a lower waist-to-hip ratio, and who have blond hair. All five of the aforementioned physical characteristics covey to a man that a woman with such features is comparatively suitable for bearing children and that she is genetically sound.

On a primal basis, the ultimate goal of most men is to perpetuate their genetic lineage. They run in political races, wage war upon alien tribes, topple civilizations, and invent novel technological wonders to garner the social recognition of their female counterparts. Male-male competition is literally about securing reproductive access to women.

You see this same type of seemingly buffoonish carnal behavior in just about every mammalian species out there.

Lions do it, gorillas do it, and elephants do it.

Isn't natural selection just grand?

2) Women are attracted to males who are tall, who are wide-shouldered, who have narrow waists, who are well-muscled, and who are assertive. Males who control status and an ample integer of material assets and resources are exceedingly magnetic to female onlookers. These males subtly signal to interested female partners that they wield the capacity to protect them from physical threats, are more than capable of providing for women and their offspring, and possess advantageous alleles that will give their progeny an advantageous boon in the genetic lottery.

Celebrity Ashton Kutcher, for example, is everything that your bog-standard woman would want in a mate: he is tall, he is accomplished, he has nice shoulders, he is internationally renowned, and he is presumably in good physical and mental health.

3) Looks are not subjective. This nonsensical myth has been debunked by multiple scientific studies and peer-reviewed literature.

If you still don't believe the experts, then think back to high school. Why did the jocks and frat boys always seem to have a swelling harem of young, swooning adolescent girls flocking around in their immediate orbits?

For more information, check out the Wikipedia article. Heed the references listed at the bottom of the page.

If someone tells you that looks don't matter and that just "being yourself" will score you some action from the opposite sex, realize that you are being lied to. Being a man of diminutive stature, mediocre facial attractiveness, and a passive personality means that I'm likely fated to fail when competing against this.

But at the end of the day, it is what it is. Short of some sort of science fiction-like neurological surgery, you can't change human nature.



The only difference between myself and other short dudes is that I don't lust profoundly over the attention of women. I understand that, on average, they're not going to want me unless I'm the last pick of the line and that their biological clocks are on the very cusp of running out.

I guess that's what tends to happen when you come to the glacial realization that you were straight up Darwin'd the very moment you were conceived.

[Vilageidiotx]

[Dolerman]

"Most women date tall guys, most women date handsome guys. Women should approach men more!" This seems to be the consensus on a lot of dating "advice" sites that it's pretty disheartening if you're a female that's not particularly attractive. Not to say that I disagree with this post, but I can never really find one that pertains to me.

@AoStar

I feel what you are saying, being unattractive isn't particularly easy, but overall, an unattractive woman has it 10x easier than an unattractive man, this is why they get the priority of advice. Ugly girls still get approached/hit on. Ugly loser guys wither away in the basement, no one approaches them.

[Dolerman]

@ASTA

Someone had a red pill for breakfast!

[AoStar]

an unattractive woman has it 10x easier than an unattractive man, this is why they get the priority of advice. Ugly girls still get approached/hit on. Ugly loser guys wither away in the basement, no one approaches them.

@Dynamo Frokane

Clearly you haven't been an unattractive woman. I actually have a really good hint as to why unattractive women don't get any of this "advice".

They're virtually invisible.

You see with men, their looks aren't valued as highly as when it comes to women. Women, more often than not, are described primarily by their looks, then as to their achievements and personality. While men can be 300 pounds and find love because of his hearty and hilarious personality, the same can not be said for women. In fact, having personalities that may be valued in men (as in more boisterous, more assertive) may even make a woman generally less attractive.

Let's take a celebrity. Mila Kunis. Some men may find her really hot, while some may find her completely average or unattractive. All the while, if you take her and compare her to a truly average woman, she is far above the average woman in looks.

A lot of times, men do not know what the average woman looks like. Because they're so focused on attractive women, ugly or average women (and not talking about those with disabilities or horrible disfigurements) are like blind spots to them. They just don't see them.

I actually read a lot about this from the anon internet world. I read about a woman that brought her boyfriend to the DMV to rate women, and he had to keep changing his "rate" because women that he found unattractive/ugly were pretty much average. And another story where a man said he was asked to count the number of the women in a bar, then shortly after he realized he completely "missed" all of the women that were not conventionally attractive (older, heavier) and that other men were pretty much ignoring them too.

While a woman's curvier shape and face symmetry is primarily determined by genetics, and she can't stop herself from aging, women consider a more widely range of traits in men that would make them more attractive. For example, just working out can make a man attractive, while if a woman is working out and has muscles, she's "too masculine".

Yes, some unattractive women may get a bit of attention from those with a type of fetish, but unnatractive men are mainly single because either there's not enough girls, they haven't got the confidence to ask anyone out, or they exclude themselves from the rest of society.

Ugly loser guys wither away in the basement, no one approaches them.

@Dynamo Frokane

The reason why so many of this kind of advice is angled towards men is because it's simply easier to fix.

And if you've managed to get this far in this huge post, great. Look up Lizzie Velasquez, aka "the ugliest woman in the world". She has a great personality. But her body's too thin and she's blind in one eye. Where's your advice for her? Get a haircut? Lift some weights? Bathe and stop playing video games? Try to wear nicer clothes? Be more assertive? These are all examples of advice catered to men, BTW.

[TheMadAsshatter]

@ASTA From a scientific perspective, I completely agree. Also,

you were straight up Darwin'd.

@ASTA

I'm going to save this for later. :p

But to add on to what ASTA said, I think I should add that the ability to read into, as well as command body language and verbal subtlety is tremendously helpful, at least in my experience.

[Vilageidiotx]

All of everything in this thread pretty much can be circumvented by one piece of advice.

"Lower your standards."

I've met a man who was 400 pounds, had a tiny tim voice, smelled like a greasy poop, never bathed, and wasn't all there up stairs, but he was totally married and happily so. I've met a woman who was proportioned like a meat loaf that has been in the sun for too long, had a lazy eye, a gimp leg, and the personality of an Eminem character, but she was hopping from guy to guy quite flawlessly. And the reason? They didn't give a flying fuck, and they stayed in their league and went about their business.

[Dolerman]

@AoStar

number 1

I'm glad you brought this up, women's looks are in heavy consideration more so than males, when it comes to status at least. Ugly fat balding men can still have the 'look' of a powerful CEO but the female equivilent cannot. I agree with you....

But that's not the topic of this thread, I'm talking about dating and dating only. Women get more attention than men, that's just reality. Moderately Unattractive women get approached all the time. Moderately Unattractive men do not. There are always more dating options for a woman.

2: This whole paragraph isn't incorrect but please refer to my 3. in my original post about Subjective Preferences. It applies to men too.

3: No its not a fetish, men dont go for chubby or plain or doughy looking women because they have wet dreams about them, they approach them because they are less picky and are more willing to overlook physical imperfections than a woman is. Why? because a woman doesnt HAVE to accept the male equvilent, because she is going to get a better offer at some point. Fat ugly girls can go on tinder and sleep with men way out of their league, men cant do the same thing. Ugly men would be lucky to sleep with anyone.

And also to direct you to my first point in my original post, being 'confident' doesn't really do anything if the woman has a type and you arent it. And if youre ugly then theres a good chance you arent her type.

Just to re-iterate I do all this for a living, I'm a dating events host and matchmaker in real life.
Women are generally more picky and shallow than men. Women care about height, men don't. Women care about race, men do as well but NEARLY as much. Women care about earnings. Men don't. The list goes on.