Avatar of Ashgan
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  • Old Guild Username: Ashgan
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    1. Ashgan 11 yrs ago

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Same as with a lot of other people in this thread, I’m not convinced just yet that I’ll actually join, but I do feel interested enough to chime in on the discussion.
I just finished reading every post, so to begin I’ll just pick various quotes on which I had something to comment on.

One of the biggest issues I see in these sorts of roleplays is that a large number of players put in their character sheets or enter into discussion, but ultimately end up leaving because the other players aren't producing the kind of nations they were expecting, or the game environment as a whole changes.
MissingAxis

Hey that’s pretty much exactly how it goes for me usually. I lurk a lot of NRP threads but almost never join them, for a variety of reasons but my usual concern is that I may end up disliking this or that nation for entirely subjective reasons. I think I have an idea for one factor that can lead to this phenomenon (more frequently than in normal RPs) and I feel like bringing it up briefly.

One of the bigger differences between NRPs and regular ones is that every player does a significant amount of world building. This is relevant if we’re looking at the general tone an RP is trying to go for. In a traditional RP, the gm predetermines the tone of his setting right off the bat. Maybe he’s going for heroic, light hearted fantasy. Maybe it’s a realistic, grimdark setting. Maybe it’s a pessimistic cyberpunk vision, or an optimistic “where no man has gone before” space opera. Point being, the GM picks whichever sort of vibe his story wants to transmit in general (I acknowledge that light hearted stories can have dark moments and vice versa) and sticks to that when designing the various components of his world. Or a good writer does anyway.

But when you establish little or no prevailing tone in advance other than “it’s space, yo”, then every player will do whatever they like the most, which means that you will almost certainly end up with nation concepts that hit completely different tones and feel like they don’t belong in the same universe. This is, of course, a high degree of personal freedom given to players but it is likely to lead to a game universe that will not feel internally consistent, which in turn can have an unsatisfying effect on players. If we look at warhammer 40k, for instance, we can clearly see that, even though every race is pretty diverse from one another, they all suit the general tone of doom and gloom 40k is going for, of a universe on the brink of catastrophe. It's this internal consistency that's difficult to accomplish with a multitude of writers.

That’s my interpretation anyway, take it for what it’s worth from a guy who has actively participated in like one and a half NRP. Medieval ones at that.

I think its pretty well known that excessive nation-sheet building before the RP begins is a bad way to start. […]
Polybius

I’m personally mildly indifferent towards this, I think there’s merit to brief and explicit sheets respectively. As MissingAxis pointed out, revealing information piecemeal during the story is a fun and engaging way of doing things, not only for NRPs. Also, a shorter sheet means quicker boot-up times and a faster launch of the RP overall, which is great for motivation.

On the other hand, it can be plain fun to go into all sorts of details, and the more aspects of a nation (which, let’s not forget, is a very complex, very internally varied thing) the player considers and makes up in advance, the more internally consistent and believable his nation will be. I think the more towards the “hard” end of sci-fi the story verges, the more need there is to explain details, the classic example being “But what do they eat and where does it come from?”. Ultimately, the amount of detail needed is dictated by the story (and its players).

Either way, I’ll be fine no matter which format you end up choosing.

Basically prevent players from making "Mary Sue"/OP/broken factions or species with absolutely no sense of realism.
ClocktowerEchos

A lot of people bring up powergaming so I guess the issue must be quite rampant. Maybe the few NRPs I’ve been in were very lucky, or didn’t run long enough, or I was too oblivious, but I have to admit I don’t have particularly nasty experiences in this regard. The same rules go for standard RPs, where mary sues and broken characters aren’t welcome either. As such I don’t really have much to add on the subject, sadly, other than that it obviously needs to be kept in check. Point-buy systems or the like are okay by me if deemed necessary. This actually segues into something from the end of the thread.

I think it would be beneficial to the whole NRP sub-forum community to develop some sort of 'universal' nation stat system that could be easily adapted to different genres/eras etc. Would any of you guys be up for working on something like that? (OP: sorry about derailing your thread further my friend!)
Polybius

My experience with NRPs is somewhat limited but I love game design and RP in general, so if nothing else I’d love to observe that thread somewhere and, if wanted, add my two cents here and there. I entertained the idea of working on an NRP system of my own making for funsies anyway.

One NRP is completely jam-packed with giant space nations with clashing borders and millions of ships, and almost utopian/dystopian societies. What's the point if we're already there!?
Darkraven

Great point, never thought about it that way. It makes a lot of sense and I can’t add too much to it other than I agree from now on and think someone should try dialing it down in their NRP.

There was a large chunk in the middle where you folks were hashing out this or that detail about a point system focused on a small-scale NRP that takes place on a handful of planets with co-existing aliens. I got that right, yeah? Anyway I don’t really know how the game system there worked, personally I think having stuff like growth meters is too over the top, at least if the goal of your NRP is to tell a story. I’m all for games, making up systems for designing the shapes and components of individual space ships and tracking locational damage, but I acknowledge that it is a game at that point and not really a collaborative storytelling effort (of course there is some overlap). I guess, just like tone, the RP’s intended function is also something that should be clarified to begin with. Is the goal to tell a story first, and play a game second, or the other way around? Either way is valid, but they both change the way you approach the design of the rules.

If story comes first, then the rules should largely limit your starting situation (to equalize) and maybe govern military engagements (which are most prone to player disputes). Anything more than that, I think, just ends up working to the RP’s disadvantage by bogging the narration down.

If game comes first, well, go ham, make rules for everything :P

So yeah that was a bunch of babbling on my part, sorry to make you sit through it. To summarize, the point to take away from this is:
It is beneficial to determine both the intended tone (story genre, feel, emotion), as well as the intended purpose (game vs story) of the RP first, and structure the details around that afterwards.
They had spent decades designing this circle? Jillian found this hard to believe at first but, reminding herself just how old Crone and Renold had to be, a decade to them was likely little more than a year to her, if even that. She had no reason to doubt the circle’s effectiveness – even if it was, essentially, entirely untested and aimed at containing something akin to a deity – but she shared Gerald’s apprehension. What if the circle didn’t work as well as everyone hoped it would? If Hazzergash truly did possess Renold then it would take little more than a casual swipe of the arm to kill any one of them. A single, momentary lapse in the binding circle’s holding power and they were done for. The elder Green’s reassurances did little to ease the witch’s mind.

“A minute?” Jillian asked skeptically, “Am I to believe this is the best case scenario? What if he’s not as weak as we think he is? What if he’s not alone? He almost certainly isn’t. Each of us will have their hands full binding him to the circle and Gerald will deal with sealing him in the crystal prison. We don’t have any means to deal with interruptions.”

“And what do we do if things turn sour?” she continued, her voice betraying her irritation and worry as she paced back and forth, arms stemmed on her hips, “I didn’t sacrifice everything I’ve ever had just so I could die for nothing.”
Jillian remained silent and watched Gerald’s brief protest with a mellow gaze. She felt truly sorry for him; not only was the world telling him that this unique chance to cure himself of the Withering was wrong, and that he had no right to hope for that kind of salvation, but the mere glimpse of this hope was enough to almost blind an otherwise extremely cautious and intelligent man to the obvious dangers this would entail. He must have been suffering for so long… that he still stood tall was nothing short of a miracle – or proof of his indomitable character. Even so, she pitied him, and it was this pity, she thought, that drove her to agree to the Grand Master’s risky gamble. But she would never tell him that she felt like so. He would only reject her.

“I suppose that might work. I understand that Renold is not exempt from being the target of possession, yes?” the witch asked for clarity’s sake, casting a brief glance at her large companion. “The binding circle would have to be sizeable to contain all of us. But circles mostly suppress magical power, don’t they? Out of us four, Renold easily does not need any of it to threaten us. This whole plan would have to be executed extremely quickly.”

It was a plan, but it seemed shaky. They had no time to practice any of this. They would have to be very fast. And any deviation from expected behavior could spell chaos, maybe defeat for them. Their chances were not very thrilling, she imagined. And when she died, the Grand Master came to collect. Unless she was to become Hazzergash’s vessel, in which case… well, who even knew what then?
Grand, Jillian thought, cocking her head. If they had been facing anything but Hazzergash they could see it coming… too bad they weren’t. It made her nervous; the idea that any one of them could become the unwilling vessel of such a creature was highly unnerving, not only because it meant the complete removal of agency over their own bodies but because it would inevitably force them to hurt or kill one another. There must be some way to avoid such a fate, she thought; there had to be.

“I have not,” the witch admitted when Renold asked if she had ever seen anyone produce large amounts of magical energy all at once. It was a vague question – large was a matter of perspective, after all – but she had, at best, only felt others doing this, not seen it. The fact that magical energy became visible at all once it breached a certain threshold had not been known to her up to this point. She wondered if such amounts of energy were reserved only for gods, demons and dragons, or if it was attainable for humans as well. Did Crone possess such large reserves?

Renold then demonstrated what this might look like, manifesting his power as tendrils of otherworldly, dull yellow fire that appeared to exist in a state of total separation from the laws of nature. Such was the core essence of magic, Jillian figured, as she gazed with fascination at the brief display. One day, she dreamed. One day, perhaps, she too could dazzle others with such a show of strength. They’d admire her, or fear her. Yes, it was the only way left for her. One day.

Gerald pointed out that they would be able to tell who was to be the target of possession, a clever observation that Jillian had failed to make in her ravings. True enough, if Hazzergash’s power manifested itself as these magical, burning limbs then they would almost certainly be directed towards whomever he chose as victim. Not that this was an enormous advantage as they were still helpless, of course…

“Luckily there’s an easy solution to how to deal with him potentially possessing us,” the necromancer then concluded, surprising not only Jillian but apparently everybody else too. As he put it, so long as everybody remained inside the binding circle, they could keep the demon lord under control no matter what – or at least, long enough for Gerald to return Hazzergash into his prison. It seemed logical enough but there was one problem Jillian noticed.

“What if he targets you?” she asked, arms crossed and looking straight at Gerald. “I for one don’t know how to siphon him into the prison.”
That's an interesting hook actually. Where are you going with that? Part of a character concept, or a sort of side-storyline?

Edit: Oh btw @Dreamforge, under Harsii's 'Terrifying' skill you mention "voices and warcrimes". That's probably meant to be warcries, right? Though I imagine that a being such as he has little respect for the Geneva convention either way.
The passing mention – and appreciation – of her efforts alone were enough to send a revitalizing jolt of bliss through Jillian’s mind, even if she knew that someone like Crone had little need to praise a witch who was so far beneath her own power and wisdom. It didn’t matter; the fact alone that someone noticed and saw something good come out of her work was enough for her to feel good about herself. If it were up to her to give out praise, however, she would have to give it to Gerald, whose shadow image made it possible for her to deal such phenomenal damage in the first place and whose energy-transferring trick empowered her multiple times. When she thought about it, the idea seemed quite charming: her, laying destruction and flame upon whomever stood in their way and him, expanding her energy pool manifold and keeping her alive. A romantic little idea that she was sure Gerald would have no patience or approval for. She could hear him now, grumbling something along the lines of “I must use my power sparingly, Veldaine”, justifying it somehow.

Listening to their exchange, Jillian got the impression that no matter what approach they took, it would be really dangerous, to the point where calling a particular strategy dangerous was redundant. They were trying to defeat and imprison a powerful demon lord, after all. So far, it seemed like using the prison as bait and laying a trap was the smartest solution, as letting him reunite with reinforcements at his keep was pointless and stupid. What worried her the most, however, was this talk about possession. Just how vulnerable were they to this? How quickly could he do it? From what range? Was it telegraphed? Reversible? So many questions. Gerald, for his part, seemed unconcerned at least, most likely because he could use his necromancy and maybe the Withering to try and transfer Hazzergash into his crystal vessel or something along those lines, she figured.

“How does possession work? You make it sound like he could take over any one of us at a whim. If that’s true then we’ve got a bit of a problem, no? Can we see it coming somehow, stop it?” Jillian asked nobody in particular, putting her concerns into the round at large as she looked at each participant in turn and waiting for anyone to pick up the torch and answer.
From what I can tell it's starting to get a bit tight, but if you have a sweet concept and make a good case for it you could conceivably squeze your way in. Gotta ask the gm for anything definitive though, these are just my two cents. Good luck either way.
Edit 2: After mulling over it a bit, maybe I'll add the story after all since I have more to tell now. Point stands that it's technically redundant, but it might make for a nice read, round the character off. Will see about it tomorrow. No promises though.
Ashgan

Just letting y'all know I did just that. It's big, has tons of technically needless details, but fluff can be nice all the same. Hope y'all like it.
All right, here it is, my first draft. I uh, did not actually include a biography section for a variety of reasons. Here's why: Most of the relevant information that would have come out of it is already in this sheet in some form or another, either directly explained or at least implied. I didn't feel the need to bloat this sheet further with largely redundant or uninteresting details. Secondly, the things that *are* important and that aren't directly explained (such as the incident with Nitsa) are far more effective from a storytelling perspective if left unexplained, so again writing it out would just diminish the quality of the character. So all in all, unless you really want me to do it, in which case I will, I'd prefer to leave it out.

The only detail that would have been addressed in the story, that needs to be addressed, and has thus far not been treated in the sheet is how my duo of characters came to join the Scarred King's ranks. As far as that is concerned, I don't know, I'll leave it vague for now. I don't know much about the King in the first place, or his rebellion, or the company he keeps. Considering their location and my character's origin it can always be conveniently explained that they simply met by chance and saw mutual benefit in working together.

So, well, there you go. Hope you like it.

Edit: Oh right, I almost forgot:
-Inspired by Tolkien, Warhammer fantasy and 40K, Lovecraft, Morrowind, Song of Ice and Fire...looking forward to seeing what others bring to the table.
Flagg

Berserk. I bring Berserk to the table. My character is Berserk.

Edit 2: After mulling over it a bit, maybe I'll add the story after all since I have more to tell now. Point stands that it's technically redundant, but it might make for a nice read, round the character off. Will see about it tomorrow. No promises though.

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