Kadaeux

Legend of Renalta 2 (Dark Fantasy)

Jorick said
Welp, I'm an idiot. I thought I'd already posted for this round of Sarah's Request, but as it turns out I have not. Time to rectify that. And it's done.

A: Thanks

B: Oooh, this could get... interesting....

Your Political Ideology

Vortex said
If your the Emporer technically speaking your a politician or at the least a statesman.

Incorrect, i'd be Nobility.

And my rule would likely be absolutely terrible for other people, so while a system I ran is the only one i'd find acceptable, the end result would probably end up with the ghosts of Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler and Justin Beiber (the last of which would be among the first against the wall) going "Dude, chill out."

Your Political Ideology

Vortex said
Hello there! Just curious to see where my role play comrades sit on the Political scale! I consider myself a Communist/Marxist-Leninist/Trotskyist/Socialist/Progressive and my results from the political compass is Economic Left/Right -8.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -7.13Do post I'm curious to find out where you folks sit!

I am a full supporter of Kadaeuxianism.

So long as I run the show, Emperor of the Earth would be an acceptable title, I don't have a problem.

Any current system with Politicians in charge of it, fuck that.

Holding Corperations responisble for their pollution.

I propose we encourage corporations to not just be responsible for their pollution, but to encourage them to vastly increase the amounts they're producing.

The faster we wreck this ball the faster people might be convinced to look for a new one :p

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

Mammon said The reason it is a logical fallacy is because you are not arguing against what I am actually trying to say--which is that it is merciful to allow those with enough emotional trauma to consider suicide commit it. I do not condone the execution of perfectly viable and functional people--which the deaf and blind are. What I mean is that animal life is usually considered less important than human life. If people justify the killing of animals to put them out of their misery, it should be easy to see why a human life--which has an extremely high capacity for emotional and mental pain--deserves to be given the same option of peace through death.

Which is in itself a logical fallacy.

Because an animal does I should too.

Animals have been known to mate with their parents or sibilings, so should incest be allowed?

Mammon said You are absolutely right about fear. Most suicide is an act of fear and desperation, this is true (with perhaps maybe metaphysical suicide being the one exception, but that's not really what I'm discussing). To understand how desperate it is, let's briefly think about what it's like to be on a very high building or bridge. When you look over the edge, you experience fear... Fear that you might fall and die. In many people, this fear is enough to trigger a physical response--sweaty hands, increased respiration, dilated pupil, etc. If you've had a near-death experience, recall that the fear you had then was even worse, and you may have had nightmares about it following the incident. Why? You have an innate fear of death. Most suicidal people still experience this fear of death. You said that their fear of living outweighs their fear of death. That's hugely significant! Their daily life is so full of depression, anger, guilt, and fear that they would rather kill themselves than live one more day. Can you pause an appreciate that for a moment?

And there are people who have it a thousand times worse who don't become so scared of life that they decide to take the 'easy' way out.

Mammon said This brings up an important issue: the means that someone commits suicide. Jumping in front of a train will usually kill someone, but it can leave the engineer or the passengers quite distraught. If suicide were socially understood and accepted as a last resort, I think that people would have a safe and private place to kill themselves without risking harm to other people either physically or mentally. Slavoj Zizek, a modern superstar Lacanian-Marxist philosopher, suggested that perhaps a panel of psychologists review the person's case to determine if it is a temporary sadness, a trauma/mental illness which cannot be overcome, or a metaphysical awakening. Should the last two be true, they would be permitted to kill themselves. If it is a temporary sadness, then they would be provided with the services they need to feel better.

No, you make suicide "socially understood and accepted" and you get the "Japan Problem" people killing themselves, with support, over every little problem that afflicts their life. People stop looking for help and start looking for excuses.

Mammon said Kadaeux, I'm sorry you've dealt with depression since you were 14. It's somewhat normal for people to think about suicide, casually or otherwise. However, this does not give you the right to mock and belittle other people. Bullying is a serious issue; coupled with young hormones and depression or another mental illness, and it can be just as crushing as any other problem. Let's apply some empathy to this situation: pretend you're a freshman in highschool--this is a roleplaying site after-all.

You have no friends, no girlfriend (though everything biologically is telling you that you NEED one), and you have some physical minor abnormality... Overweight and acne. Despite the fact that you're intrinsically the same as any other human being--capable of complex thought and feeling, of learning and growing, of loving--you've been doomed to being mocked or even physically threatened daily. You feel isolated from the rest of the world. Attempts to make new friends or reach out are cut off and met with avarice. This is not something that goes away. For the next three years, everyday is the same and you fall into depression. Your grades have dropped from skipping school to avoid being tormented. You just come home from school and go to bed and lay there. You try therapy, you try anti-depressants, but nothing helps because you can't stop them from making you feel like a freak, like someone unloved, like someone inhuman. You can't wait one more year, one more month, one more day for relief to come. You take your life into your own hands and you kill yourself.

Can you really say that's not as bad? Sure, Person A lost all of their children in one setting. His pain is immediate and intense. Person B has been mocked over the course of their school career, for years. His pain is slow and grinding. The difference is the duration and intensity, not the overall feeling. This doesn't make one any better than the other.

Further, I notice that you attribute Person A's suicide to external stimulus (the death of his children) but you attribute Person B's suicide to an internal stimulus (a weakness of character). This is a type of victim blaming which is psychologically most common and related to cognitive bias; when you attribute someone's actions to an internal stimulus, you are directly blaming them for their choices. In reality, almost 80% of anyone's choices come from an external stimulus. In Person B's case, it would be bullying.

Yes I really CAN say that's not as bad, seeing as how, except for "oh no nothing could possibly help me! *Suicides*" BS (Or the overweight part, until I was in my 20s I could eat a horse and not gain weight) that example WAS my high school life. I can't understand what in a BILLION years could possibly make you equate being bullied with having your CHILDREN die.

There is no "victim blaming" here. Because nobody is responsible for killing "B" in your example. They killed themselves because it was "too hard". Yes I AM blaming them for their choices. The bullies didn't kill them. Their poor grades didn't kill them. Unless something horribly horribly wrong occured acne certainly didn't.

So yes. I can empirically say it is nowhere near as bad as a parent whose children have died. The fact you think that being bullied IS as bad is a massive failure of character on your part.

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

Mammon said You seem to be ignoring half of what I address in my post. When I say it is ethically acceptable to commit suicide, I explicitly mention that this is only after every other option has been exhausted. This "language barrier" is a particularly interesting point, because usually people who commit suicide want to die; executing the deaf, blind, and mentally handicapped is not the same as what I am discussing, because many do not wish to die and have a high quality of life. In fact, I would venture to say I have not met someone with Down's Syndrome who was unhappy. What you're suggesting is actually a logical fallacy called "slippery slope."

No. There is no logical fallacy involved. As you can see from your own statement.

Mammon said Sometimes when an animal is severely injured, senile, or otherwise abnormal, people kill them to put them out of their misery. It's a perfectly acceptable act and minimizes the suffering of the animal.

The deaf, blind and mentally handicapped are, like it or not, abnormal. To declare it is ok to kill an animal for an abnormality and not a person, simply because the person can say "but I don't want to die" is the hypocritical approach. Additionally you explicitly mention "after every other option has been exhausted"

I would venture to say that less than a single percent of a single percent of people who commit suicide have exhausted even SOME of the options let alone all of them.

Mammon said I think that people who commit suicide are not simply curious about what it is like to die. When I say it is the ultimate exertion of will, I do mean it; those who are legitimately suicidal because of trauma or mental illness experience a huge loss of control. Sometimes, even after therapy, medication and patience, the only way to regain control of their lives is through suicide.

You do mean it. And you're absolutely wrong. There is no "ultimate exertion of will" to die. It is VERY EASY, people yak on about how they're overcoming the instinct to survive at all costs, an instinct that every single one of us ignores daily. You don't "regain control of your life through suicide" you demonstrate your utter fear of living, a fear of living more profound than fear of death. There is no such thing as "legitimately suicidal" while one can have reasons I consider "acceptable" the act of suicide is still an unacceptable one.

Mammon said Again, this goes back to what I said about it being acceptable only after every other attempt at righting themselves has been made. Even if we are talking about these "selfish individuals", I think that what Jorick had to say is still very applicable. In case you haven't read it, here it is:

And as I said before, I doubt even a percent of a percent of suicides even ATTEMPT to make all efforts to right themselves. They declare life too hard, chicken out and dodge the next train off the mortal coil. (Sometimes literally, and seriously, suicide by train is perhaps the dickiest way to go and if fucked up leaves you off a lot worse.)

Mammon said I agree with you that suicide is often not logical; many people who commit suicide are not in a rational state of mind. However, I don't think that belittling someone's problems is a good thing to do in any way, and saying that some people have a justifiable reason over other people to commit suicide is extremely short-sighted. I would venture to say that a vast majority of people who consider, attempt or commit suicide are suffering from a mental illness, such as depression, bipolar disorder, or something similar. I think your summary is a gross oversimplification of the issue at hand and shows an extreme lack of empathy and understanding..

And that is just demonstrating your own lack of understanding, i'm turning thirty this year, i've lived with depression since I was about fourteen, i've had suicidal thoughts and shovelled them back in the back as the ultimate act of cowardice. As being "short sighted"

Person A: Had three kids. They die in a car accident. Kills self.
Person B: "OH NOES THEYZE PIKKING ON ME!" Kills self.

There is no parallel. It's not belittling someone, it is recognising that person B has no valid reason IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY for suicide. Even with mental illness added on top, something I am INTIMATELY familiar with, the fact person b considered that reason enough to terminate their life isn't an ultimate act of will. It's the ultimate act of weakness.

Mammon said I completely disagree. The circumstances which lead to someone committing suicide are usually not the victim's fault; as you mentioned previously, you can't possibly justify saying the victim of child molestation or rape is in any way at fault for that happening to them. It's also beyond their control that they suffer from a mental illness. Sometimes, there's simply no way of fixing their circumstance, and death is their only freedom from pain.

Sometimes. Yes. But in the VAST majority of cases no. In the vast majority of cases no attempt is made to fix their circumstances.

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

Mammon said Sometimes when an animal is severely injured, senile, or otherwise abnormal, people kill them to put them out of their misery. It's a perfectly acceptable act and minimizes the suffering of the animal. Why would you try to deny or belittle that same right for a human being, who--as far as we know--has a much higher capacity for emotional and mental pain?

Because, an animal, unlike a person, cannot seek help. If they're injured take them to a vet unless they're obviously going to die then put them out of their misery. If they're senile it's called "Euthenasia" and shouldn't be denied, and "otherwise abnormal" should we start executing the blind, the deaf, people with down syndrome? After all, by your comparator we'd just be putting them out of their misery, it's a perfectly acceptable act after all.

A human being, unlike an animal with that critical little "language barrier" issue, can seek help.

Mammon said It's the ultimate expression of will over one's own body and own life.

No, it's the ultimate expression of a fear of living more than a fear of death. People go on about how it's an "ultimate expression of will" it really isn't. The human sense of self-preservation is not that strong, curiosity, boredom and all other manner of things overcome it almost every time. "What is that strange thing." "What's it like to jump out of an aircraft." "I'm going to join the military."

The only difference is that a suicide is setting out to kill themselves.

Mammon said If you loved someone who committed suicide because they had no hope of recovery from their mental illness, then you should find comfort in the fact that they are no longer in such pain, instead of pretending that it was an act of pure selfishness or greed.

If someone I loved committed suicide i'd hold their memory in contempt for the short time it'd take me to discard their memory. Most people who commit suicide don't even make genuine attempts to get help. And unlike some i'm not speaking from a void here. I've had near crippling depression and anxiety issues for some years but I refuse to let that get me. In the end life is a battle and i'm not going down without a fight.

People who commit suicide ARE acting out of pure selfishness and greed. They can't see a way to make their lives better. They don't WANT a way to make their lives better, instead they want a way out and will take it and leave everyone around them to pick up the pieces.

Mammon said What I find more piteous is the life they must have endured to commit suicide. I can only imagine what someone must have gone through because of either mental illness or trauma to choose death and peace over life and suffering.

In most cases, absolutely nothing to justify or explain it. Sure there are some cases, such as rape or child molestation victims who I percieve as having a damned good reason to do so. Or a parent that has lost their children in some horrific accident. But the vast majority of suicides have no logical, rational or in any possible way justifiable reason other than "life's too hard, ima checkin out early."

Mammon said I somehow doubt an all-loving and understanding god would punish someone for taking their own life because of trauma or mental illness.

The problem with people who believe in an "all loving" and "all forgiving" god is that their own source material doesn't support it. He's the type that floods the world for over a month in a tiff because people he gave free will didn't behave properly. He's the type that incinerates a guy's wife because she looked back curious to see what smiting Sodom and Gommorah looked like, of which yeah, he's the type douchy enough to obliterate a couple cities he didn't like.

Or the time he allegedly unleashed seven plagues on egypt because he didn't like they way they ran the show.

Or the time he let his "son" get nailed to some crude Carpentry so he had an excuse not to go all apocalypse on humanity's arses again.

Let's be honest, most people who believe in an all loving and forgiving god haven't read all the source material :p

Mammon said It is not the weakness or selfishness of the victim which leads them to kill themselves.

Yes. It is.

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

Magic Magnum said
I wasn't asking for reasons for suicide in general. I agree those are all reasons though.In this case though I was specifically asking about in the case where they believe in Hell, why would they still choose to kill themselves?

Depthless levels of masochism! JK

Return of the Force 2.

Zacharius said
Can I not use Invictus for that purpose? I have enough points left over to add the training room (as I've done) but not enough to create a whole new ship, if that's acceptable, seems rather easier than creating a whole new ship.

Yes, the Invictus can be used for that purpose, but it's not going to easily escape notice :p

Legend of Renalta 2 (Dark Fantasy)

Amazonia Imperiia

---

Kraith began to smell magic, a slight sickly unpleasant odour, like that of chicken only just going to rot. A source of unpleasant and malevolent magic perhaps? Worse. The situation despite with his preparation was, simply put, too perfect. The situation was beginning to put him on edge and he didn't much care for the feeling. It never boded well.

In fact... as did the fact he couldn't find any material to even reanimate a dead rat earlier. Instead he looked at Traxilus and prayed, hoped, that the man would pick up the ball and do something to distract the woman. He had come too far now to let what work he'd arranged slip away.

And so he did his best to avoid notice and waited for Traxilus to pick up the ball and do something to distract the last Amazon, even if that included 'entertaining' her in the dirt there and then. If she was distracted it would take him but a moment to get into the tent, get the glowing gem from the chest in the tent and then get out with it swaddled in cloth or something similar.

All he needed was Traxilus to distract her.