TShara

The Rebel Vampire

I've never played Final Fantasy. But to use an example of an alternate reality I tend to take no issue with, look at Fullmetal Alchemist. I'm no expert on it, but from what I've seen, humanity is basically about 30 years behind "our" world in a lot of areas because of the focus of many minds on Alchemy. Although, I'll admit, their having automail when that kind of tech would take incredible understanding of the nervous system kind of makes me twitch when I think about it.

But part of the point is, I don't have to think about it because I'm not the writer. I can't help but get sort of lost in the history of a world or culture, because I feel the need to understand it for my own sake.

For the record, I'm sorry if you said this before. My memory isn't perfect, so maybe you said it and I put it out of my mind, or I didn't understand it in the same way you did.

Here's the problem I have with the war wiping out all technology and putting them in an apocalyptic past. If that had happened, then the magicals would have won (when they clearly didn't). Because if we place the war in 1500s tech, or even 1700-1800s tech, humanity didn't really have anything that could compete with the kind of destruction you are talking about. If we say "oh, it was 500 years ago, technology was roughly where it is now, or maybe farther, then everything was destroyed and we forgot it all" that presents it own problems because it's hard for me to believe that everything could be forgotten. I'm assuming the magicals were too spread out to warrant the use of a nuclear bomb, so that option is out. But we would need wartime tech to be roughly on par with at least 1940s to have a chance against magic that could do that. Even if the humans had their own "magic-infused technology" the whole time.

If all of this happened before the computer, then I was thinking that the early control methods were based on magic-infused tech and perhaps early experiments with electricity.

I... can live without knowing that for now. But I need to know at some point because it's a part of Joseph's life.

Magical Protection

I was enjoying this one, I just haven't had time for both recently, due to real life stuff. Basically I had to choose one and the other oe won out.

I might need help on where we are going with it when I can write for it again though. Hopefully, I'll have some time after my final tomorrow, but I can't count on it.

The Rebel Vampire

I see your logic, but everything becomes a lot more complicated the more we change it. That's the main reason I wanted to stick with "as close to real life as possible" because the more we change the threads the more work it is to create an entire technological history. I can't just change some, because it leads to too many questions about how things worked. And the truth is, I wouldn't mind doing all of that, over time, and building a database complete with a timeline. But I don't want to do it alone.

In my timeline prior to this conversation, the war didn't hurt technology too much. Magic was a factor, but it was not powerful enough to wipe out all knowledge of stuff. It was much less WWII and more a 15th century war, fought on moving battlefields, with horses, infantry, and not much more advanced than a crossbow, at least on the human side, which largely didn't know magic at the time.

Due to controlling the slaves, and the mere existence of magic as something to study, mind control tech, imprisonment tech, and magical technology are all more advanced than they were in our world. But otherwise, things are roughly the same, technologically. This whole line of questioning started for me because the presence of magical slaves would change the social and cultural dynamic, first in relation to the history of slavery, but also in some other social and cultural aspects as well.

Now we don't have to keep that, but the more we reconstruct, the more work it is, because every field affects every other field in the longterm, to say nothing of social and cultural changes from different avenues of technological advancement.

To answer the more pressing question, I would say the war lasted around 60 years? That could add some justification to the sins of Joseph's early life as well.

The Rebel Vampire

Okay, the problem is these two things are related. If Joseph is enslaved soon after the war, and he's been enslaved for 500 years, that would put the end of the war 500 years prior to the RP. Sure, the internet, computers, and every part required for that to work could have been around that long (420 years to use your 80 year estimate), but logically the technology should be much much further by now. Like, this world should have teleportation, flying cars, and space travel. If it is still at a “modern” level at the time of the RP, then it couldnt have been around 420 years before, because then what was the advancement?

Furthermore, anything that exists can't be TOO far ahead or behind any other field of technology. For instance, if computing technology is that old, that's a big step towards robotics being more advanced. In which case why would they need slaves when they would have built robots by now?

You can't say, “Oh, it was developed then and then everything in the field just stopped” because the world and human progress doesn't work that way. Things slow down and speed up, but they don't just stop for hundreds of years unless a new technology that performs the same function comes along. Like, yes, we haven't advanced anything with vacuum tubes because they were functionally replaced by transistors which were superior in every way.

Am I making any sense?

The Rebel Vampire

I tend to ask people what they think first because I've been taught that it's sort of the polite way to debate. I can come up with ideas too, but oftentimes what you see seems a lot more clear than my ideas to me. So I've been trying to accommodate that.

I'm not saying that technology has to develop exactly the same way, but there are enough threads and comparisons that I think things do have to happen in roughly the same order. As an obvious example, the internet can't come about before computers. Or the modern transistor really can't come about before vacuum tubes, unless you say that they skipped vacuum tubes entirely somehow, which would just seem odd to me. I've been thinking of it as mostly parallel development with a bit more study of magic and mind control as well.

To be clear, I'm no historian or anything. It's just I have enough understanding that sometimes things just don't make sense to me. Because I'm not a great historian, if I change the order on technology, the world becomes much more complicated, and I don't have the knowledge to make it make sense.

Like, the internet did not exist before the war, because it couldn't have. To have something like the internet, you need the transistor, fiber optic technology, and enough programming for at least 70-80s level computers. To me, things couldn't have developed another way, at least if the primary species is human.

But I'm fine with making smaller decisions. Here's an important one. I really need Joseph to have been captured during or right after the war. It's just how I've imagined his backstory already. Otherwise, I need a good explanation for how he could have been a slave before slavery of magicals was widespread. Was it legal just like it was legal to have a human slave? Was it somehow off the books? Maybe the Vandros family called him an indentured servant and he was really a slave? Of course, then the hard breaking technology/magic has to have been developed prior to the war, in which case why was it developed and why wasn't it used sooner? As you can see, it starts to be simpler if he was captured during or after the war. Additionally, it would give him a bit of a connection with Erik.

The Rebel Vampire

Normally I have no problem letting things develop naturally as we RP. Even if there's a few logical kinks, I usually can smooth over them in my head. It's just I feel like everything has to be clear, otherwise we will flat out say the exact opposite things. Like with the whole "People have died from this" "No they haven't" thing. We worked it out and I'm fine with the decision we made on it, but I'm really afraid of our brains just not being in the same place on stuff, and having it lead to obvious plotholes.

I mean, on a lot of things you're a really forceful partner, and I try to sort of let you be, because sometimes it's fun being dragged along in a story, and I know you are a better writer than I am. But I need the technology and history to make sense for me, partially because I know a lot about historical trends (forced through the AP classes in high school) and I have a personal attachment to technological history as an aspiring engineer.

Furthermore, it's even more important with my characters in this, due to how long they've been alive. It's not history to them, it's the lives that they have lived. Now I have no problems making unilateral decisions on this, and just having them come up IC, but honestly, I'm afraid you won't like the decisions I make. And if we disagree, then instead of one of us changing, we will both just write totally different things. That's why I'm trying to clarify this stuff.

The Rebel Vampire

That doesn't work with Joseph's age though. It's been flat out said that he's been a slave of the Vandros family for over five centuries... I could change it I suppose. I think this is supposed to be around 2050, however, as Erik was born a slave in one of the earlier factories. So around 1820 or so. That would make the dates line up, and if technology is more equivalent to now instead of 40 years from now, that helps with some of the disparity due to time and effort being expended on slave control tech.

Alright, fair enough. That works for me. I'm sorry that it came up. But that's something I can't change about his character. To me, attempted suicide is a logical conclusion, given what he thinks he knows and given his experiences. And it's made worse by the hormonal and psychological changes that are happening in his head.

The Rebel Vampire

“Of course, Master Mois,” the head slave replied as he stood up from his chair. He went to the kitchen and personally constructed an egg salad sandwich from the stockpile kept in the massive fridge. At any one time, they had enough food and ingredients for twice the number of slaves that lived here, and that wasn't including all of the non-human delicacies that the slaves often ate.

He returned after five minutes with the sandwich and some fruit punch, and set them down in front of the human. He was about to turn and leave when he took another look at the worry and fatigue on Master Mois' face. He is no longer a child. I cannot protect him, or Master Alexi for that matter, as I once could. Why in hell did he have to choose such a dangerous profession? If one of the rebel magicals doesn't kill him, the stress will surely shorten his life. And that's already so short as a human.

Knowing his master well enough to know that he would not mind, Joseph stood behind him and began massaging his neck and shoulders.

“Your muscles are quite tense, Master. It is not healthy,” was all he said in explanation.

~*~*~

The rage within the vampire captive threatened to boil over again. Erik had struggled with anger management problems for his entire two and a half century long life, but now it was as though his emotions were tripled in intensity, and longed to rail at the human with the slightest provocation. He snarled at the human before regaining his composure once again.

“First of all, you're a liar. Thousands have died from the suicides related to this procedure. It might not be directly from the application of it, but it's as a direct result. Secondly, you cannot tell me that there is not a single magical that has managed to resist the temptations until the bloodlust, or the equivalent for their species, killed them,” he growled back, somehow managing to keep his voice level, though clearly angry. The truth was, he was terrified about the second point, terrified that that was exactly what this damn human was saying, that no one had managed to resist the urge to feed, even on the disgusting potion.

“Thirdly, even if you were completely telling the truth, and there had been no deaths. What hard breaking is, is worse than death. Would you want to completely relinquish your will to another? Do you honestly think your beloved Joseph is happy here, constantly putting your needs before his own? I doubt you are familiar with the illegal writings of the Underground, but a hundred and fifty years ago, there was a Night Elf named Feldora who wrote, 'It is better to die free than to live as a slave.' I have lived by those words since before she wrote them, and I will die by them if necessary.”

Erik did indeed make a mental note of the information on his toga. He found it mildly interesting, even touching, that Joseph had chosen such an appropriate piece. Nor had he cared about his shirt, not really. The indignity was worse than the loss of the old ratty thing. If anything, the idea of Alexi having one specifically made for him was laughable, given that the original was so cheap. But he did not bring those things up, for he would not give the human any opportunity to change the subject.

The Rebel Vampire

Of course I want to continue this RP! When he realizes there is zero chance of him escaping or withstanding the torture until he dies rather than taking the potion, that's going to be his next option though. I don't want him to die, but I can't change the fact that he will want to. He will have to attempt something and (preferably) be unsuccessful. That's why I asked what methods would be used to stop him.

Hmm, they have to have recovered quickly then, because I placed the war with the magicals around the Renaissance period, and I already had the Industrial Revolution happening around the same time. I also put this with a roughly modern level of technology. Joseph has mentioned email and used online shopping several times now. But that all still works.

Alright, well, that kind of makes people like Frederick Douglass not exist, since American slavery was in the 1700s-1800s, which is supposedly post-war. But I can use it and attribute it to a magical then. It is supposed to be an alternate reality after all.

The Rebel Vampire

What exactly is stopping Erik from strangling himself on his chains, especially when Alexi is asleep and Joseph is out of the room?

Also, I might want to work with you on some of the history of this alternate world we've made up. I kind of already decided that technological advancement happened the same way. But what about the various wars? Most notably, what about human on human slavery? Was there a need to enslave other humans in the last 500 years after magicals were available as free labor?

I'm asking because I want to use a Frederick Douglas quote, but I need to know how it would have originated in this world.