So we've gotten enough stray threads that most of us didn't think were appropriate for OT.

Then when an admin moderator spoke up and said it actually does fit kind of highlighted a communication/definition error between the admins, the frequent others and the new users as for what each forum is meant for.

Currently from what I gather the general OT community defines it as this

OT = Serious/Long debates on topics and issues
Spam = It's spam, anything silly, for fun or with little point goes here
Members Lounge = General chat and hangout that wishes to remain calm and not part of the spam community

This is something both admins and members' I think will need to discuss if we can to reach a clear definition.
And hopefully the next site update can involve updated descriptions (or sub-forums?) for these sections to clarify the difference so we get less miss-postings or confusion in the future?

In my opinion, they are all different communities for different types of people who like to discuss different types of topics with a different style of posting. You're right on the ball when it comes to what they are for but in the end, when you decide to just go there you either fit in with the community or would have a hard time for a while until you adjust to fit that community. This isn't just spam that does this but is in fact all of them.

If you like to just chill and write short posts and joke with little ability to debate, or if you're the type of person that is too hardheaded to think about and accept other points of view or tend to ignore facts, OT would probably look at you like you're retarded and would probably tear your shit up. Same with spam but instead you also shouldn't take things as seriously and view 90% of everything as a joke.

I never been in member lounge so I don't know much on them but I'm pretty sure that there is a type of person that they don't accept... They seem like an always happy and friendly bunch so they probably don't like people who are naturally ass holes or mean (unlike spam where they are worshiped as long as they are witty while doing it)

This is just my observation... Overall they share a few similarities though in the end it's all about the community. I know most of the spammers who post, I'm sure OT members know most of the other OT members and I'm sure the same goes for ML. (maybe not since they have/had such a large number of members)...

Where exactly did an admin pop in to say what is or isn't allowed in OT? Neither Mahz nor Contra have posted on the subject recently, so I'm curious about where this information is coming from. Anyway, my thoughts on the topic.

Neither seriousness nor length are requirements for OT. OT is where discussions about any topic not about roleplaying is supposed to go. This is whittled down a bit by the Gallery and Articles/Guides areas existing, so anything that should go in those areas should not go in OT. On the pre-fall Guild, Spam and the Member Lounge were sub-forums of OT, and that was because they really are supposed to be sub-sections of the OT . The things that belong there are further exceptions to the "everything not roleplaying" role OT serves, which in turn helps to clarify what actually does belong in the regular OT section.

Spam was once called Forum Games/Spam. Given the fact that there is no new section labeled as being expressly meant for forum games, and since forum games are rather spammy by nature, we can assume Spam is where forum games belong still. The other stuff that gets posted in there could easily be made in OT or Member Lounge instead, but there are two major differences here from OT: staying on topic doesn't matter at all, and language and decorum are less of an issue as the area is given a bit of a pass on that stuff since it was made to house the fouler side of RPG in the first place. For instance, many of the political threads in Spam could be posted in OT with no problem, and the rest would only need a little bit of cleaning up on the language front to fit here; same goes for the threads where people are talking about their life being able to fit in ML. On that front, nowadays it's less of a difference in what content is allowed than it is a difference in community. Spam is kind of an outlier in that respect, where it's sort of a mash-up of OT and ML with a kind of insulated community, so trying to pin anything other than forum games and senseless spam as belonging only in the Spam section is silly.

The Member Lounge is for general socializing stuff. The section description lists "blogs, leaving threads, birthday threads, and general interest threads" as things specifically belonging there. On OldGuild, 'ask me anything' type threads and 'so-and-so's hangout thread' also belonged there rather than in OT. All of that stuff has been posted in Spam with no problem though, and I point to that as another reason why Spam is a sort of an exception to the rule of what belongs where. Anyway, the weird grey area here that needs clarification is that 'general interest threads' bit. Does that mean this and this and this belong in the Member Lounge because they're talking about a show or game? But wait a second, here's a thread about video games that got a lot of activity from OT regulars, OP included, without anyone saying it doesn't belong here, so what's up with that? Oh, and that first thread I linked also has a bunch of OT regulars participating in it, and it's about a TV show. Huh. What about this thread that's calling for people to save the internet? Isn't that something of general interest to the people of the forum? It could spawn serious discussion though, so does it belong in OT? How about this thread about how long people have stayed awake? That's not a serious topic at all, so does it really belong in the OT? I'll note that this is another thread with quite a few OT regulars participating.

Honestly, I think it's a grey area that doesn't even need to be settled. The OT is at its core meant to be the default place for non-RP threads to go. As long as it isn't gallery material, articles or guides, forum games, nonsensical spam, or stuff meant purely for hanging out and socializing, it's fine if it's posted in OT. Show threads? Cool. Video game stuff? Alright, have at it. Threads on "serious" topics that don't happen to come with a multi-paragraph OP? Go for it. Seriously, so long as it doesn't 100% clearly belong in one of the other sections, post it wherever, who cares?

While I'm being honest, I have to say that this looks like a bit of hypocrisy to me. You'll call shenanigans on things you don't really care about that don't fit your standards for OT, but when it's about a show you like? Hot damn, screw the rules of what goes where, time for a general interest thread in OT! It's silly. There's no need to make concrete boundaries to replace the grey areas, because nobody is being harmed by the occasional not-quite-fitting thread being made in OT. It's a sub-forum of a roleplaying forum, don't take it so damned seriously. Just do what everyone else does when they see something they don't like in their favorite forum section: ignore it.

When Member's Lounge was first created, the objective at the time *seemed to be* that it would become the new home for long, drawn-out, serious discussions. Off-topic rejected that notion, and ML was generally desolate except for a few 'hangout' type threads, and the occasional going-away message. Following guildfall the atmosphere and population of ML has changed for the stronger, which has taken some of the sap out of OT.

I feel like just about everyone here hit the nail on the head - especially the bit about it really not being worth debating.

I feel like 98% of all the threads in all three of these sections fit in just fine and no one's complaining.

Good points. I suppose this doesn't really need clarifying as I originally thought. :/

Normally I'd have a longer reply than that, but there really isn't anything that anyone's said that I can make a decent argument/counter against.
It's all solid and I don't see any holes or flaws with the reasoning.

Jorick said Where exactly did an admin pop in to say what is or isn't allowed in OT? Neither Mahz nor Contra have posted on the subject recently, so I'm curious about where this information is coming from.

It was in the Doctor Who thread.
People were telling the OP that it's not appropriate for OT and was better suited for spam.

But then Contra Lillian (I was tired and wasn't reading all the usernames... :/) posted and said that it fits.
She never actually set/declared hard limits of what does and doesn't work in OT, she just said a particular thread does fit that a lot of people were saying otherwise for.
So to me it highlighted a confusion/miss-communication between the admins and the members as to what goes where so I wanted to try to clarify it.

OT is for intellectual dick measuring.
Spam is for social dick measuring.
Member's Lounge is like blogging w/ friends I think.

Lillian Thorne (a mod) is suddenly Contra now?

As far as I'm aware, any thread goes in Off Topic that promotes discussion of a kind, and that is not limited to heavy debates or whatever. If I wanted to do a thread dedicated to comics, tv show, video games or whatever else, then I could.

Magic Magnum said It was in the Doctor Who thread.
People were telling the OP that it's not appropriate for OT and was better suited for spam.

But then Contra posted and said that it fits.
She never actually set/declared hard limits of what does and doesn't work in OT, she just said a particular thread does fit that a lot of people were saying otherwise for.
So to me it highlighted a confusion/miss-communication between the admins and the members as to what goes where so I wanted to try to clarify it.

Oh, you're confusing Lillian Thorne with Contra Fates. I went and looked at Contra's recent post history and saw nothing at all related to that, thus my confusion and question. Lillian's not an admin, she's a mod. Bit of a difference, but a mod is a site authority figure worth listening to nonetheless.

I figure it wasn't a miscommunication between mods/admins and the members, but rather a few people getting the wrong idea about what goes in OT just because that happens to be predominant. The place might be 90% politics/religion/other serious topics now, but that doesn't mean that's the only stuff that belongs here. An understandable misconception, I suppose, but still a misconception.

The moral of the story is that generalizations and pointless territorialism are bad, kids. Try to avoid it.

Turtlicious said
OT is for quasi-intellectual dick measuring.
Spam is for quasi-social dick measuring.
Member's Lounge is like blogging w/ quasi-friends I think.

fixed

Actually, on second thought I'm going to go with

OT is for pseudo-intellectual dick measuring.
Spam is for pseudo-social dick measuring.
Member's Lounge is like blogging w/ pseudo-friends I think.

Turtlicious said
Actually, on second thought I'm going to go withOT is for pseudo-intellectual dick measuring.Spam is for pseudo-social dick measuring.Member's Lounge is like blogging w/ pseudo-friends I think.

quasi-pseudo fixed

Agreed.

Jorick said
Oh, you're confusing Lillian Thorne with Contra Fates. I went and looked at Contra's recent post history and saw nothing at all related to that, thus my confusion and question. Lillian's not an admin, she's a mod. Bit of a difference, but a mod is a site authority figure worth listening to nonetheless.I figure it wasn't a miscommunication between mods/admins and the members, but rather a few people getting the wrong idea about what goes in OT just because that happens to be predominant. The place might be 90% politics/religion/other serious topics now, but that doesn't mean that's the only stuff that belongs here. An understandable misconception, I suppose, but still a misconception.The moral of the story is that generalizations and pointless territorialism are bad, kids. Try to avoid it.

Derp, must of just skimmed by the pics when I was tired and made the confusion. :/

As for the rest of the stuff said, true story.
It get's tricky to forget when some things are just the result oft he members around and not actually the main thing a certain place is meant for.