World War Two – 1946

June 6th, 1944 – Allied invasion of Normandy.

June 22nd, 1944 – Russians launch Operation Bagration, with the aims of crushing Army Group Center.

July 17, 1944 – Erwin Rommel, the fabled German general, comes close to getting killed when an Allied Spitfire strafes his staff car as he travels to Army Group B's headquarters. He miraculously escapes injury, but is left with a sudden and undeniable realization of Germany’s coming fate.

July 19th, 1944 – Adolf Hitler is shot and killed by a rogue unit of Wehrmacht officers en route to the Wolf’s Lair in East Prussia. The assassins are killed in the ensuing gun battle.

July 20th, 1944 – Wehrmacht launches military coup. Civil war erupts as Waffen SS divisions attempt to reassert their authority, but are badly outnumbered.

July 21st, 1944 – Leading Nazi Party officials including Hermann Goering and Dr. Paul Josef Goebbels are arrested as they attempt to flee Berlin.

August 16th, 1944 – After an intense and bitter civil war, the SS are defeated in a string of battles and driven into Austria.

August 20th, 1944 – Erwin Rommel emerges as Germany’s defacto leader, with popular support. He goes on to form a Military Council consisting of several decorated officers, such as Erich von Manstein and Gerd von Rundstedt.

August 21st, 1944 – Rommel offers unconditional surrender to the Western Powers, on the understanding that they save Germany from the Soviets. The West declines, stating that Germany must unconditionally surrender to both.

August 22nd, 1944 – Rommel issues order 341, prompting Operation Verlorene Liebesmüh (Forlorn Hope).

Operation Verlorene Liebesmüh was in essence, an order to all German forces within occupied states to return to the Fatherland. In a magnificent feat of logistics and cunning, the Wehrmacht in France, Holland and Belgium withdrew its men and material to Germany’s west borders. Despite the Allies’ best efforts to intercept the withdrawal, they were unable to prevent much of the Wehrmacht’s western strength from fleeing to the safety of the Rheine.

Likewise in the east, the German army made a massive retreat. Much like on the Western Front, the rout was orderly and paced to save as much equipment and munitions as possible. By September, the Wehrmacht had consolidated itself within Germany’s borders, leaving Finland, Romania and SS-riddled Austria to fend for themselves. Though still defeated forces, the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe were able to coordinate a deadly defensive effort against the Allies and the Soviets.

As 1944 drew to a close, and 1945 began, neither the Soviets nor the Allies had managed to penetrate Germany’s borders. It was a war of attrition however, and though Rommel and his staff were effective battlefield commanders, they were running out of industry and food with which to power their army – not to mention the widespread starvation of the civilian population.

In February, Romania and Austria fall to the Soviets after a brief but collected campaign. Rommel admits to the international community that death camps had existed under Nazi rule, and that a great many people died as a result. He promises to release everything related to the practice, and to hand over all of those involved and implicated, in return for a conditional surrender. Both the Soviets and the Allies outright refuse.

March 19th, the Soviets launch Operation Burning Star, with the aim of breaking through the German border and taking Berlin. After a week-long barrage of some 5,261 howitzers, the Russians make their attempt. Millions of soldiers, and thousands of tanks and planes are dedicated to the assault. However, a reformed Army Group East rises to the challenge and using its large reserve of tank destroyers, trenches, minefields and a combat-effective Luftwaffe, it smashes the Soviet spearhead and encircles 500,000 Russians outside of Berlin in homage to Operation Barbarossa’s early triumphs. Attempts are made to restart the offensive, but German reserves prove too deep to make ground. The trapped Russians breakout of the encirclement, back to the safety of Soviet lines. The German army has won a round, but at a great cost, and the Military Council secretly concede that another offensive of that size might not be beatable.

In the West, the Allies probe and plot, but are not eager to launch a full scale offensive. Germany’s Army Group West has some 3,000,000 men, and 1,300 combat ready tanks; though still gravely outnumbered, it is coherent and battle tested. Although fuel is becoming increasingly difficult to source, Rommel’s defensive plan requires little mobility but maximum firepower, and with the Luftwaffe concentrated and therefore still at large, Allied air superiority is making less and less impact on Germany’s ability to produce weaponry. Russia’s failure to break the Germans, and the Allies’ hesitation, leads to a fallout between Stalin and the Western leaders.

Rommel makes another plea to the West for a conditional surrender. This time his words are contemplated by the United States President and the British Prime Minister. The Soviets announce that any form of agreement without them involved will lead to war between Russia and Western Europe. In response, Rommel declares Germany’s western borders “open” and moves Army Group West to the Eastern Front. Allied troops cross into western Germany, and begin occupying the territory in the wake of Germany’s retreating army.

Stalin considers this a sly political attempt to bring the whole of Germany under western control, despite prior agreements. He declares war on the West in response.

---

So that's the background I have. It's probably full of holes, in terms of realism, but hey, this is the Rp Guild so FU. Also I haven't proof read yet, so any grammar gurus can go away.

What I don't know is, is what I should do with it? Nation RP or nitty-gritty soldier RP? Any ideas? Also if you think this is all rubbish feel free to say so. I just had an idea and wanted to write it down, and then brand your eyes with it.

Woah. Woah, woah. I like the fucking sound of this. I genuinely think you are onto something here- this is brilliance. Count me in- it couldn't be a nation-RP in my view, and that's the only flaw- where to begin with? I mean, a normal army unit couldn't work, so I can only imagine that perhaps the Secret Services are the places to start- perhaps among the OSS, and the Soviet and British equivalents, perhaps even exploring the themes of Germany's rapid development of munitions and supplies (ie. the mass-production of Me 262s and the huge outgunning of Soviet Yaks in response, and so forth) to really illustrate the idea. Or perhaps a larger-scale political RP, not nation, but political- among people such as Stalin, Churchill and their various aides and ambassadors. I mean, it's a lot of ground to cover- I really like the concept and idea, it's just where to fit. Special Operations? Meh...but you have to have V2s, V3s even, shit, throw in all the stuff that the Nazis had on the drawing board as things that were perhaps on the brink of a production, and I think you could suddenly see a very, very different outlook on the world.

In regards to Japan, nuke or no nuke? I can only assume that the continuum is still the same in the Pacific, as the Germans basically cut support to them in time, and that the Japanese surrendered, leaving Nazi Germany (or rather, a mostly de-SS-ified Germany) as a significant force that could at any moment, throw it's lot in with the West and fight the Soviets. I mean, the formation of the French Fourth Republic (I think), the idea of Norway and Finland (Norway having a strong Nationalist influence) both seeing the fallout of Nazis pulling out, and seeing perhaps Communist influences in their resistance movements (imagine the Norwegian resistance being infiltrated by the NKVD...yeah, it doesn't need thinking of).

So you see my interest in the wider area of things- and I think that while I can't say that I alone can solve the idea of how we come into this, you can put me in as a person who takes a great intrest in what would happen- and you're the first person who I think who's finally put across some sort of legible idea about the Nazis. You haven't a Wolfenstein New Order though, no spoilers, or in that regards, this sudden idea that a Cold War wouldn't happen, and the Nazis would be superior- they're merely a third party, which I find cool (leaning though). Though I think I'd shit myself laughing if it DID go ahead and have Nazi Ubersoldaten, and so on and so on :D

kingkonrad said
Woah. Woah, woah. I like the fucking sound of this. I genuinely think you are onto something here- this is brilliance. Count me in- it couldn't be a nation-RP in my view, and that's the only flaw- where to begin with? I mean, a normal army unit couldn't work, so I can only imagine that perhaps the Secret Services are the places to start- perhaps among the OSS, and the Soviet and British equivalents, perhaps even exploring the themes of Germany's rapid development of munitions and supplies (ie. the mass-production of Me 262s and the huge outgunning of Soviet Yaks in response, and so forth) to really illustrate the idea. Or perhaps a larger-scale political RP, not nation, but political- among people such as Stalin, Churchill and their various aides and ambassadors. I mean, it's a lot of ground to cover- I really like the concept and idea, it's just where to fit. Special Operations? Meh...but you have to have V2s, V3s even, shit, throw in all the stuff that the Nazis had on the drawing board as things that were perhaps on the brink of a production, and I think you could suddenly see a very, very different outlook on the world.In regards to Japan, nuke or no nuke? I can only assume that the continuum is still the same in the Pacific, as the Germans basically cut support to them in time, and that the Japanese surrendered, leaving Nazi Germany (or rather, a mostly de-SS-ified Germany) as a significant force that could at any moment, throw it's lot in with the West and fight the Soviets. I mean, the formation of the French Fourth Republic (I think), the idea of Norway and Finland (Norway having a strong Nationalist influence) both seeing the fallout of Nazis pulling out, and seeing perhaps Communist influences in their resistance movements (imagine the Norwegian resistance being infiltrated by the NKVD...yeah, it doesn't need thinking of). So you see my interest in the wider area of things- and I think that while I can't say that I alone can solve the idea of how we come into this, you can put me in as a person who takes a great intrest in what would happen- and you're the first person who I think who's finally put across some sort of legible idea about the Nazis. You haven't a Wolfenstein New Order though, no spoilers, or in that regards, this sudden idea that a Cold War wouldn't happen, and the Nazis would be superior- they're merely a third party, which I find cool (leaning though). Though I think I'd shit myself laughing if it DID go ahead and have Nazi Ubersoldaten, and so on and so on :D

I'm still pondering the nuke question. I didn't want to upset the flow of things, but the Allies having a nuke would make things interesting. I mean, America didn't care about Japan, it was a little island that had given them an excuse to ride the thunder. They bombed it without thought, just willing the war to end. Dropping it on Eastern/Western Europe, or indeed Russia, might be a little different. After Japan, they'd be more than aware of the destruction it wrought, in both theory and practice, and so maybe consigning a great deal of the world's population to nuclear fire might be off the table. Alternatively, the Soviets might suddenly throw everything they have behind their own nuclear project, thus bringing it into the war earlier than it happened in real life. I mean what was it? '49? '53? *Looks* Yup, '49. But they managed that by stealing a defeated Germany's uranium, which they wouldn't now have access to. Hmmm, I'll ponder it further, but for now we'll assume that the West don't want to blow up half the world UNLESS they have to.

What we do know, is that with Germany technically defeated, but its army operating as a human shield for the West, the Russians would still vastly outnumber the Allies. There was a plan towards the War's end, where Churchill wanted to invade the USSR to ensure they didn't 'enforce' Communism on their 'liberated' states. The plan was withdrawn after they realised the Soviets outnumbered the Allies 3-1 in terms of men and material.

One possible route we take is perhaps a 'divisional' level, or indeed, 'army' level type nation RP, where players assume control of Western armies against an NPC (or player controlled) Soviet Union. So rather than countries, you have territorial gains.

To make matters interesting, we can assume that the Warsaw Uprising never happened (with Rommel's intentions to withdraw from the East, and his chivalrous nature, I can't see him attempting to add to the slaughter of the Jewish population) so Poland will retain much of its political activists etc, meaning the USSR may well be facing an organised resistance to its occupation. This would allow room for players to take up control of 'citizen armies', operating in the shadow, and then turning these resistances into fully fledge armies following liberation.

Finland would have been steam rolled, I imagine. They made a one-sided peace IRL, but with Germany safely confined to its borders, I imagine the Soviet army may have well wanted more than a peace.

As for as technology is concerned, I'll look into it. The German army of the late war lacked many vital resources, which hampered and prevented production of many of their drawing board ideas. Even the jets they had, which could run circles around everyone else, were limited and dependent on fuel that was becoming increasingly hard to produce. Still, with the West willing to strengthen them, if only to tie down large parts of the Soviet army, these resources may suddenly become abundant. So many 'ifs'.

A fall out between the West and the East was inevitable. It was only Germany's surrender, and the invention of the nuclear weapon, that prevented an outright war. However, with Germany still an active force, and the West seeming to take territorial advantage of the situation (not to mention the incompatible ideologies of the USSR and the West), it provides an excellent catalyst for a war that never happened.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I'll think on all of this. It's annoying though, all revved up but with no place to go haha.

Operation Unthinkable

Okay, this looks much much better thought out than the usual "ZOMG NAZI ZOMBIES WITH JETPACKS" extended WWII scenario. I'm on board.

I'm thinking it might be a good world to explore from numerous viewpoint characters, not a nation RP. Front-line soldiers and sailors, diplomats, civilians caught in the crossfire, politicians, and so on.

Polyphemus said
Okay, this looks much much better thought out than the usual "ZOMG NAZI ZOMBIES WITH JETPACKS" extended WWII scenario. I'm on board.I'm thinking it might be a good world to explore from numerous viewpoint characters, not a nation RP. Front-line soldiers and sailors, diplomats, civilians caught in the crossfire, politicians, and so on.

I think you could well be right.

Updated the background to expand upon the Pacific. I will add to this continually until the world is fleshed out enough.

World War Two – 1946

June 6th, 1944 – Allied invasion of Normandy.

June 22nd, 1944 – Russians launch Operation Bagration, with the aims of crushing Army Group Center.

July 17, 1944 – Erwin Rommel, the fabled German general, comes close to getting killed when an Allied Spitfire strafes his staff car as he travels to Army Group B's headquarters. He miraculously escapes injury, but is left with a sudden and undeniable realization of Germany’s coming fate.

July 19th, 1944 – Adolf Hitler is shot and killed by a rogue unit of Wehrmacht officers en route to the Wolf’s Lair in East Prussia. The assassins are killed in the ensuing gun battle.

July 20th, 1944 – Wehrmacht launches military coup. Civil war erupts as Waffen SS divisions attempt to reassert their authority, but are badly outnumbered.

July 21st, 1944 – Leading Nazi Party officials including Hermann Goering and Dr. Paul Josef Goebbels are arrested as they attempt to flee Berlin.

August 16th, 1944 – After an intense and bitter civil war, the SS are defeated in a string of battles and driven into Austria.

August 20th, 1944 – Erwin Rommel emerges as Germany’s defacto leader, with popular support. He goes on to form a Military Council consisting of several decorated officers, such as Erich von Manstein and Gerd von Rundstedt.

August 21st, 1944 – Rommel offers unconditional surrender to the Western Powers, on the understanding that they save Germany from the Soviets. The West declines, stating that Germany must unconditionally surrender to both.

August 22nd, 1944 – Rommel issues order 341, prompting Operation Verlorene Liebesmüh (Forlorn Hope).

Operation Verlorene Liebesmüh was in essence, an order to all German forces within occupied states to return to the Fatherland. In a magnificent feat of logistics and cunning, the Wehrmacht in France, Holland and Belgium withdrew its men and material to Germany’s west borders. Despite the Allies’ best efforts to intercept the withdrawal, they were unable to prevent much of the Wehrmacht’s western strength from fleeing to the safety of the Rheine.

Likewise in the east, the German army made a massive retreat. Much like on the Western Front, the rout was orderly and paced to save as much equipment and munitions as possible. By September, the Wehrmacht had consolidated itself within Germany’s borders, leaving Finland, Romania and SS-riddled Austria to fend for themselves. Though still defeated forces, the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe were able to coordinate a deadly defensive effort against the Allies and the Soviets.

As 1944 drew to a close, and 1945 began, neither the Soviets nor the Allies had managed to penetrate Germany’s borders. It was a war of attrition however, and though Rommel and his staff were effective battlefield commanders, they were running out of industry and food with which to power their army. The German population was also falling victim to starvation, and Nazi terrorist cells were growing bolder – Hitler’s gruesome end had given them a martyr to rally around, ironically something Erwin Rommel had once wanted to avoid.

In February, Romania, Hungary and Austria fall to the Soviets after a brief but collected campaign. Rommel admits to the international community that death camps had existed under Nazi rule, and that a great many people died as a result. He promises to release everything related to the practice, and to hand over all of those involved and implicated, in return for a conditional surrender. Both the Soviets and the Allies outright refuse.

In a further bid to win international favour, and to distance himself from Germany’s former leaders, Rommel released the information anyway. Camp locations, inmate processing files, names of SS and Wehrmacht staff responsible for their day-to-day operating were published in a series of documents, and handed over to neutral Switzerland for distribution. Hundreds of thousands of former camp inmates released from the camps were placed on trains, and sent towards both the Soviets and the West depending on their proximity to either front. Rommel stated that he himself had a part to play in their existence, for serving the Reich in a military capacity, and made a pledge to stand trial at the war’s end.

Rommel’s attempts to reach out to Germany’s enemies fell short of gaining either their favour of sympathy, however. On March 19th, the Soviets launched Operation Burning Star, with the aim of breaking through the German border and taking Berlin. After a week-long barrage of some 5,261 howitzers, the Russians made their attempt. Millions of soldiers, and thousands of tanks and planes were dedicated to the assault. However, a reformed Army Group East rose to the challenge and using its large assortment of refurbished Panzer Divisions, complex trench networks, dense minefields and a combat-effective Luftwaffe, it was able to smash the Soviet spearhead and encircle 500,000 Russians outside of Berlin in homage to Operation Barbarossa’s early triumphs. The Russians repeatedly attempted to restart the offensive, but the intricate German defences, coupled with Mainstein’s knack for mobile counter attacks, prevented them from making ground. Concerned that a large portion of their troops would soon succumb to the encirclement, Stalin reluctantly ordered his generals to abandon the attack. This was the last strategic victory for the German army in the year of 1945.

In the West, the Allies probe and plot, but are not eager to launch a full scale offensive. Germany’s Army Group West has some 3,000,000 men, and 1,300 combat ready tanks; though still gravely outnumbered, it is coherent and battle tested. Allied commanders know that unlike France, where they fought a paralysed and demoralised enemy, fighting Rommel’s Army Group West on home ground would result in catastrophic casualties.

Although fuel was becoming increasingly difficult to source, Rommel’s defensive plan along the Rheine required little mobility but maximum firepower, and with the Luftwaffe concentrated and therefore still at large, Allied air superiority was gradually losing the devastating effect it enjoyed months previous. Furthermore, through careful management of Germany’s faltering economy, and of its available resources, Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe squadrons started to become a prominent force. Though still vastly outnumbered, the Luftwaffe had made a slow but steady comeback.

Russia’s failure to break the Germans, and the Allies’ hesitation, leads to a fallout between Stalin and the Western leaders. Washington, London and Moscow begin to distance themselves from each other; the Allies show their weaknesses. Whilst a red faced Churchill argued for the destruction of Germany, and its full inclusion in the Western political sphere, American President Harry S. Truman begins to lend support to an idea of a future where Germany exists unoccupied – a shield to be used against Stalin’s expansionism.

As if acting on cue, Stalin goes back on his pledges to allow for Soviet occupied countries to undergo their own democratic elections, and states his intent to absorb them into the USSR. This enrages the West, and causes further concern amongst all political figures – especially those who had just reclaimed their countries – and a very visible crack forms between the Allies. No one wanted to be the victim of Communism, except for the growing internal communist political movements that were on the verge of being illegalised.

Sensing the divisions of his enemies, Rommel made another plea to the West for a conditional surrender. This time his words are contemplated by the United States President as well as the British Prime Minister. The Soviets announce that any form of agreement without them involved will lead to war between Russia and the West.

Ever a clever tactician, Rommel made good of the situation. He declared Germany’s western borders “open” and moved Army Group West to the Eastern Front, providing the Russians with a truly formidable adversary. Allied troops crossed into western Germany shortly after, and began occupying the territory in the wake of Germany’s retreating army. They halted as they came half way across the country, so that their leaders could contemplate the situation.

Stalin considered this a sly political attempt to bring the whole of Germany under western control, despite prior agreements. He declares war on the West in response, which creates a world-shattering chain of events leading to what is now known as ‘ The Extension War’. The Red Army starts to gather strength along the borders of Poland, Austria, Finland and Slovakia. The U.S and British armies respond in kind, and start to reposition their forces in preparation for the incoming invasion by their former ally. However, despite Rommel's pleas, they steer clear of lending any form of support to Germany's army.

Sweden attempts to reaffirm its neutrality to the conflict, and a newly liberated Norway follows suit. However, with the establishment of the Soviet's Finland Front comprising of several armies, it is clear that the north will not be spared.

Despite initially agreeing to declare war on Japan following Germany’s misconceived imminent defeat, Stalin offers the beleaguered nation an olive branch. In return for Soviet military assistance, Japan must conform to certain Communist ideals. Japanese Prime Minister Kantarō Suzuki reluctantly accepts the terms, and cedes Manchuria to the USSR to provide them with a regional base from which to operate. Millions of Red Army soldiers start to arrive in the following weeks; although poorly armed compared to their brothers in the West, they are a much needed asset to the floundering Empire of the Rising Sun. Alongside these soldiers, thousands of aircraft too are donated to Japan’s defence. Stalin publicly announces an alliance between the two nations shortly after.

This unexpected partnership leads to a halt of Allied operations in the Pacific theatre, and an uneasy stalemate continues into August.

I'll definitely keep reading where your ideas will be leading to and how it ends... depending on the outcome I might do something about a »Dresden« front. Oh yes, and I would definitely need to know whether the Allies have bombed DD nevertheless or not. (This should have been an evil laugh, the smiley makes it way too creepy!!)

I'm in. I would love to play multi-characters as front-line soldiers and sailors, diplomats, civilians caught in the crossfire, politicians, and so on. But, It could work as a NRP.

I think we'll keep it open for people to play whoever. Once I'm done with 'the story so far', I'll detail the kinds of factions/rolls people can play, but thinking about it, I might not limit it to anyone. I'd be more than willing to allow someone to RP the American President, for example, if they could prove they knew their stuff about the American political system etc.

I don't know, it's a young idea that I'll keep chipping away at. If you're interested, subscribe to this thread. I'll more than likely be fleshing it out on a daily basis, and any input or suggestions/criticisms are always welcome.

I think in my opinion, an NRP can't work. It's enticing, but it couldn't and really shouldn't, it wouldn't do the idea justice in what people and actions are.really the core- that soldiers, civilians and others are really seeing a world of an alternate pathway, in which the Reds are the enemy before the Second World War has even ended, and that things could suddenly burn over.

EDIT: I thoroughly support the idea of politicans/diplomats/soldiers/inteligence operatives, such as that of Admiral Canaris's agency and the OSS and the likes, rather than an NRP, to really immerse the idea of all of it.

kingkonrad said
EDIT: I thoroughly support the idea of politicans/diplomats/soldiers/inteligence operatives, such as that of Admiral Canaris's agency and the OSS and the likes, rather than an NRP, to really immerse the idea of all of it.

Second that.

Updated the background to expand upon the Pacific. I will add to this continually until the world is fleshed out enough.

World War Two – 1946

June 6th, 1944 – Allied invasion of Normandy.

June 22nd, 1944 – Russians launch Operation Bagration, with the aims of crushing Army Group Center.

July 17, 1944 – Erwin Rommel, the fabled German general, comes close to getting killed when an Allied Spitfire strafes his staff car as he travels to Army Group B's headquarters. He miraculously escapes injury, but is left with a sudden and undeniable realization of Germany’s coming fate.

July 19th, 1944 – Adolf Hitler is shot and killed by a rogue unit of Wehrmacht officers en route to the Wolf’s Lair in East Prussia. The assassins are killed in the ensuing gun battle.

July 20th, 1944 – Wehrmacht launches military coup. Civil war erupts as Waffen SS divisions attempt to reassert their authority, but are badly outnumbered.

July 21st, 1944 – Leading Nazi Party officials including Hermann Goering and Dr. Paul Josef Goebbels are arrested as they attempt to flee Berlin.

August 16th, 1944 – After an intense and bitter civil war, the SS are defeated in a string of battles and driven into Austria.

August 20th, 1944 – Erwin Rommel emerges as Germany’s defacto leader, with popular support. He goes on to form a Military Council consisting of several decorated officers, such as Erich von Manstein and Gerd von Rundstedt.

August 21st, 1944 – Rommel offers unconditional surrender to the Western Powers, on the understanding that they save Germany from the Soviets. The West declines, stating that Germany must unconditionally surrender to both.

August 22nd, 1944 – Rommel issues order 341, prompting Operation Verlorene Liebesmüh (Forlorn Hope).

I'm a big fan of alternate histories and I'm really digging this scenario. Am I to take it that the game will be set during the actual shooting war between the Soviets and everyone else?

I know i am new but I would LOVE to get in on this. when things are all hashed out I would be down to join.

i want in onthis

I have to ask. has this been abandoned?

caliban22 said
I have to ask. has this been abandoned?

I'm afraid so. My apologies, but the more I fleshed out the world, the bigger the mountain became. I wanted to make it at least half believable, but I gravely underestimated the amount of worldly knowledge required.

If anyone wants to steal it and do something with it, however, then they have my blessing.

Sorry again, it's not often I run from my own ideas!