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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Nemaisare
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Ah.

And on to another question. It's not directly related in any way to character building. I just like knowing things about worlds people make. So feel free to tell me to stop. ;)

So, if magic is natural in this way, as in, anyone can reach out and grasp it, and there are some magical creatures of the ordinary variety, does this mean that magical use is along the lines of anything can use it, some things just really aren't going to grasp that fact or have any need to? Like say.... A tree. Could a tree theoretically use magic? Insofar as I know, a tree does not have any sentience as we'd recognise it, but they can, and will, develop natural defenses. Could an ordinary tree, over the course of time and a few generations, develop defenses (or seed spreading tactics) that utilise this magic in much the same way as a redwood has thick bark against fire or an acacia has thorns against browsers? Could a regular animal manage this?

You may have answered this earlier.
Ichthys said
In a fantasy sense, all creatures are just that: creatures. Nothing fantastical about them. Yep, that bug may be able to spontaneously set its body on fire, but it's just like any other bug. Yep, that's a lion-eagle (Griffin), so what? They fly around occasionally.In a supernatural sense, some creatures do have a closer connect to magic and the occult, but not in any civilized sense. They don't practice any formal magic or spells. Some of the stranger creatures are just a little more magical, in comparison to our world, but again, it's natural and normal in their realm.

In fact, rereading, I think you did. But I'll continue to ask nonetheless, for further details. :)

I'm mainly wondering how the non-sentient creatures interact with the magic. Is it an evolutionary adaptation for a tree to have thorns that can put someone to sleep forever(uhhh yeah, my creativity died there, carry on), or a hare to be able to jink a little farther than physically possibly when trying to evade a hunting dog? Or do these things need to be added through human interference? Or is it nothing more than an occasional awkward flub, courtesy of the magic itself?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Castor
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About the magic in this world, does it work like an energy (to build on your breating analogy, eg. stamina allowing breathing to occur) or is it a process (eg. inhale from the mouth, exhale from the nose)? I ask this to know if a persons magical prowess is limited by their individual innate magical reserve or their knowledge on how to perform the magic (whether they can learn or not), so does it depend on how big your lungs are or your breathing techniques?
After typing that, I realised.... por que no los dos!

Edit: Does magic come from within the individual or from the natural magically saturated environment? Which ties back with
Nemaisare said
Like say.... A tree. Could a tree theoretically use magic? Insofar as I know, a tree does not have any sentience as we'd recognise it, but they can, and will, develop natural defenses. Could an ordinary tree, over the course of time and a few generations, develop defenses (or seed spreading tactics) that utilise this magic in much the same way as a redwood has thick bark against fire or an acacia has thorns against browsers?


I hope you understand why I ask about these limits. What's stopping a Theon Vilicus from putting a magical aneurysm in Ned D'Cerf's brain the minute they see each other?
And also, will children be magicking like in Harry Potter? Able to have emotional magical outbursts? Do adults naturally get better at focusing their magic or do they require training in a Hogwarts?

The problem with magical societies is that they dont have many natural barriers to getting what they need to live. With no limits, they can magic food, shelter, clothes, whatever. Unless all witches are evil and bloodthirsty, there seems to be no motivation for the killing and the fighting. I.e. if they lose farmland, no probs, move to a new area, magic the land to grow food. If they lose a castle, no probs, magic one from any material you can find. The idea of power in society is usually related to controlling something that everyone around you want or need or desire. But magic takes out the strife which fuels the desire or need for anything. If everyone was magical, youd imagine a society like the Elfes in The Lord of the Rings.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, I'm really interested :) This sounds interesting
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dead Cruiser
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Ichthys said
In what way and to what extent would the haemonculi be used?


Let's pose a few scenarios for the sake of possibility.

1) Fully sapient creations, essentially people unto themselves. Think FMA haemonculi.

2) Semi-intelligent creations. Can take orders and act with a degree of autonomy but are generally too unintelligent to do much else.

3) Automatons. Unthinking creations that can fulfill a pre-programmed purpose, but nothing else.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Nemaisare
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Castor said
The problem with magical societies is that they dont have many natural barriers to getting what they need to live. With no limits, they can magic food, shelter, clothes, whatever. Unless all witches are evil and bloodthirsty, there seems to be no motivation for the killing and the fighting. I.e. if they lose farmland, no probs, move to a new area, magic the land to grow food. If they lose a castle, no probs, magic one from any material you can find. The idea of power in society is usually related to controlling something that everyone around you want or need or desire. But magic takes out the strife which fuels the desire or need for anything. If everyone was magical, youd imagine a society like the Elfes in The Lord of the Rings.


Ooh, good questions. :D

I wonder though, if you're attributing a little too much, well, magic to magic. While I'm sure it can fix a lot of problems, humans as a whole are generally a quarrelsome species, and just because they have a quick fix to their problems (keeping it mind it might well not be as quick and easy as all that), doesn't mean they won't find reasons to covet further power by position or what other people have. In fact, it seems to me like there'd be even more potential for trouble, with so many more options made available. It might actually be harder to uphold law and order when those you're trying to stop have exactly the same main weapon as you, and might well be better at wielding it. o.0 There are plenty of other motivations for killing and fighting other than gaining ressources for survival. Although, admittedly, those are generally the most altruistic.

I'm also hoping there's more restrictions on the magic to keep that sort of castle lost? *waves hands* New castle! from happening. ;)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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I would liken it to the development of technology in the real world. Has technology made the harvesting of food easier, faster, and more productive? By leaps and bounds, I'd say. Has the increased availability of said food ended world hunger or achieved world peace? Not even remotely. If anything, the increased level of technological development has just made the power struggles less overt at times, due to both sides possessing the capability for mass destruction (cold war, anyone?).

It seems that magic in this universe would follow a similar path of development. It may be everywhere, but that doesn't mean anyone can do anything with it. We all have brains, but it took the team working on the Manhattan Project to successfully develop an atom bomb. We've had access to the raw materials since the dawn of man, but had to first learn how to utilize them before they could be turned into what we know today as nuclear weapons. A thousand years ago, a box the size of a coffin that could destroy an entire city in a wave of fire and force would have been the most laughable flight of fancy. If it had been demonstrated, it would have been sorcery. In this realm, the roles are just reversed.

*drops two cents into the thread and toddles off*
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Milieu
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I'm interested. I'm impressed at how thoroughly you answer the questions posed thus far.
What makes these covens special? How do they retain their political/occult power? If magic is something that is relatively common (akin to a natural force) how do they stay on top? For instance, do they have a serfdom (you said this was in a time similar to the dark ages), a common populace limited in the ways of magic due to resources and access to things like tutelage or archaic texts, reserved to toiling in the fields to stay alive in the presence of the coven? I also noticed that in your OOC snippet you made a direct distinction between an occult leader, and a political one. I guess I'm just kind of wondering about the power structure, although if you planned to release this info later, then I digress.

Other than that, I'm 100% interested in joining.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Castor
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Nemaisare said
While I'm sure it can fix a lot of problems, humans as a whole are generally a quarrelsome species, and just because they have a quick fix to their problems (keeping it mind it might well not be as quick and easy as all that), doesn't mean they won't find reasons to covet further power by position or what other people have. In fact, it seems to me like there'd be even more potential for trouble, with so many more options made available. It might actually be harder to uphold law and order when those you're trying to stop have exactly the same main weapon as you, and might well be better at wielding it. o.0 There are plenty of other motivations for killing and fighting other than gaining ressources for survival.


Heh, you're quite a cynical person XD So, on one hand, we base these witches off the presumption that human nature is inherently evil and that there's a natural tendency to oppress or control, irregardless of the societal environment in which they were brought up. Then magic would just be a means to meet their ends - total domination, as without magic (IRL) its almost impossible to achieve such a scale of control. In this scenario, there has to be a really OPed coven thats wipes the floor with everyone.
On the other hand, we have Covens made up of self sustaining individual witches that dont have to rely on outside influences. Their environment is such that each of their needs can be met pretty easily because everyone has a basic magical potential. This society will be magically different from ours, right from the start, if you imagine witches as a people close to the natural world, where their technology develops totally different from ours. Their idea of civilisation would be so different, theres so much potential to develop a unique society, completely separate from our own world. This society would be more interested in personal development and aggregation of knowledge rather than fighting among themselves. So, you see, their concept of power and control should be different as well because, naturally, when each Coven's needs can be met easily, through magic, there will be no ultimate power that can be imposed over them that would result in a war that makes both sides lose everything they have. (A real life analogy would be, why we dont just nuke the middle east or anywhere. Because they will nuke us as well and everyone dies)
TL;DR: All permeating magic gives humans the potential for more good, IMO... YES I'M NAIVE AND OPTIMISTIC! SHOOT ME!

But that doesnt really help the rp, So, maybe destroying other Covens give you more magic like you take their source of power but this power corrupts and make you wana kill more? The thing is, each house in GOT has their own motives, not just blindly killing everyone in the name of gaining power.

Although, admittedly, those are generally the most altruistic.I'm also hoping there's more restrictions on the magic to keep that sort of castle lost? *waves hands* New castle! from happening. ;)


How about singing magic? Say theres this sapling, and witches can perform rituals where they sing and coax the sapling to grow into whatever shape, eg. A tree that grows into a house while still being a tree that lives and grows. The restrictions would be time. Obviously, the growth is accelerated but it should take a week at least? for a normal sized house. Like in Eragon!
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Castor
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double post
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triple post. damnit rpg
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Nemaisare
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Lol, firstly, I'm not entirely sure why I'm laughing. I'm tired and it seems the easiest way for me to express my eager attentive happiness that we can have this discussion and that this idea has begun such a debate. Hopefully, that proves it's a pretty good and open idea. Kudos to you, Ichthys. :) And thanks for giving such great answers to spark chatter about it.

Castor said
But that doesnt really help the rp, So, maybe destroying other Covens give you more magic like you take their source of power but this power corrupts and make you wana kill more? The thing is, each house in GOT has their own motives, not just blindly killing everyone in the name of gaining power.

I'm not entirely certain when we got into the killing spree thing, as that's not exactly the worst thing you could do with magic. Nor is it, I think, the point of this rp. If that was me starting it.... Whoops, did not mean for it to come across that way. My bad. Anyway, pretty sure the goal isn't merely to grab all of the power. When I mentioned that, it was an example of one of the reasons any person might be motivated to cause trouble, in our world or another. I'd be just as happy with that society that's more interested in gaining knowledge and whatnot than in fighting amongst themselves, if that were something to be explored, but given the fact that there seems to be a civil war and political strife brewing, I'd say this society is not quite as against infighting as all that. Sure, they might not approve of physical aggression, and the coven as a whole probably doesn't appreciate any of the strife going on, but words can make pretty good weapons too. I'm not a great proponent for magic makes things idyllic, I like it in small doses, because it can be a nice image, but it just seems strange. Maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm reading your points wrong...

Still, a great example of why I think this, is that there does happen to exist a society based solely on magic already. Yes, it was a human invention, and it did start out when technology was not nearly as advanced as it is today, but it is still a society that is excessively different from our human Earth society and I think it fits the bill. Faeries are and always have been very magical and often fully capable of doing whatever they wish like making their own clothes and food. The result... good, bad, and neutral beings, and ones that don't really understand our societal norms in most instances. Of course, some of that miiiiight be the longlived aspect as well. So, it's probably not a perfect comparison. But anyway, that's what I was thinking when you (Castor) mentioned a society attuned to natural magic. And why I think it's entirely possible to think up a society and culture that could have things given to them through magic and still be a little quarrelsome. ;) Spoiled brat syndrome, maybe? I have no idea where I'm going with this anymore... just gonna go chase the will'o the wisps now. Heeeeeee :)

Also, being tired, I'mma apologise halfway through nattering if everything, or even just any part of this, makes no sense or seems to be repeating itself. It happens sometimes. :P Also, I should recognise right now that everything beyond this point(and some of the stuff above) is just me generalising, rather than directly about this rp, because our questions about this particular magic system have not yet been answered, and so, I have no idea how much of it will be relevant. But I like to talk about this stuff. It's fun, and a great way to pass the time. So, onward!

Admittedly, I can be a cynical person. This stems mainly from my horrible attitude towards optimism. It must be thoroughly extinguished forever! Mwahahahahaha! *coughs* *snrk* Not... Nah, I just like playing the devil's advocate. And it helps prevent the problem you brought up with there being a lack of tension when suddenly, hey, guys, everything could be solved by magic. Because the problem there, obviously, is that there's no more problem. (my simplification of your point)

Castor said
TL;DR: All permeating magic gives humans the potential for more good, IMO... YES I'M NAIVE AND OPTIMISTIC! SHOOT ME!

Heh. A very good point. It stands to reason that if they're given a greater potential for causing trouble, they're also then given a greater potential to do good. As Schradinger brought up, new technology can both help and hinder our survival. Not everything created with it is essential, or wonderful or horrendous, but while it can help with some problems, it can create its own. And that, really, is what I think so fun about playing with a world full of magic. Exploring the pros and cons and unessential snippets the population may have to deal with. I'm pretty sure that on this aspect, we're all in basic agreement.

Castor said
we base these witches off the presumption that human nature is inherently evil and that there's a natural tendency to oppress or control, irregardless of the societal environment in which they were brought up.

On this note, I have absolutely no desire to base any witch off that assumption. It takes away all possibility of giving them any human element, that being, people can be good, bad and in between. Most live in the grey areas, so I don't see why this should be any different here.

Castor said
How about singing magic? Say theres this sapling, and witches can perform rituals where they sing and coax the sapling to grow into whatever shape, eg. A tree that grows into a house while still being a tree that lives and grows. The restrictions would be time. Obviously, the growth is accelerated but it should take a week at least? for a normal sized house. Like in Eragon!

Singing magic sounds like fun. There should be someone who uses it and is tonedeaf.... All the oops, sorry! *wincing* On a side note, I want a tree house. But yeah, time's a great restriction. So is using the elements around you rather than being able to make anything out of air. Or only being capable of channelling a certain amount of magic at any given time. Or needing excessive amounts of concentration. Or having to actually know the individual components of a spell or the thing you're wanting to accomplish and needing to go through each step separately before you can accomplish the whole. I like restrictions. :) There's a lot of possibility out there.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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This post is just a disclaimer about the upcoming answers. First, I completely adore all the debate; it excites me, and in all honesty, brings up some questions that I hadn't pondered. Thank you all. I hope the following post clears things up, and if anything only increases debate. Already, the RP, as a collaborative writing, is beginning, and that is a beautiful thing to behold, a mark of a (hopefully-to-be) successful RP experience.

Second, I guess I did a good job in making the system general enough to provide some boundaries in which the players can fill in. I'm very humbled by this.

Finally, the answers are lengthy. Beware.
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Since there's so many questions (which I am really content about; as I said, questions are only a boon), I'll answer them in the similar, list form that I did earlier. :)
Is magical use along the lines of anything can use it, and some things just don't grasp that fact or have any need to?

- Using my explanation and basic definition pertaining to the nature of magic, then hypothetically, yes, anything can use magic, although as mentioned some things don't use it in a civilized sense. Things without the capacity to reason or have complex, abstract thinking (which really means anything that is not a human) will be unable to conduct magic in any organized sense of the word. As said before, they wouldn't cast spells, but some things may be influenced by magic. I will explain this in more detail in the answer to the next question.
Is it an evolutionary adaptation for a tree to have thorns that can put someone to sleep forever, or a hare to be able to jink a little farther than physically possibly when trying to evade a hunting dog? Or do these things need to be added through human interference? Or is it nothing more than an occasional awkward flub, courtesy of the magic itself?

- Considering magic is so integral, it would not be surprising if magic would be factored in to certain evolutionary adaptions. Still, as explained in the following question on the origins of magic (internal or external), the product of magic is not inherently magical, so it would not really be possible for something to adapt to the actual magic but rather to certain products/effects of spells.

To explain, a hare may jink better than normal ones, but only if something had caused this adaptation to be necessary; and whether its caused by magic is debatable. A tree may become immune to fire (like redwood) if it needs to, and the cause may be completely non-magical or magical. Maybe generations of pyromanic witches who launched fireballs and fires every which way caused this, or maybe it was just a naturally flammable area that would burn in the summers. Again, because of the nature of magic, for something to become immune to magic is hypothetically improbable, but in the adaptation to products of magic, it is reasonable.

To put it clearly, evolution doesn't work any different than the way it does now. Adaptation and mutations are still usual to how they are in our world.

I must admit though, that there are anomalies and exceptions to the rule (as there always are). By chance or misfortune or even magical interactions, some things develop a better attunement to magic (which is what I previously described in my post on creatures). Perhaps a witch was somehow able to augment the speed of the hare's jink (maybe causing growth in the hare's leg muscles or something; I confess I'm not an anatomist on rabbits), and somehow this trait become genetic (rather than merely a mutation to that individual). From this, perhaps this trait passed on. Or perhaps the hare just randomly mutated in such a way that, for unexplained reasons (remember, magic is largely unknown and mysterious), it allowed the hare to jink faster. Or maybe it was completely normal.
Does magic come from within the individual or from the natural magically saturated environment?

- Magic is not an element or energy in itself; it is a sort of presence, a catalyst, a phenomena, and thus it can't be decided if magic comes from the internal or external, whether it is created or merely manipulated. It is due to this reason that unintelligent things can't really use it like a witch can (and to this degree, why it isn't well-organized even among civilization), for magic is just too unknown in its underlying mechanisms. Those who have tried to understand it have hardly made steps in figuring it out; at this point, most have just given up. To give a real world example, in order to better understand the ambiguity of magic in the realm, magic is similar to dark energy and dark matter; we know that it can (and does exist, in terms of magic in the realm) but we know nothing about it. It is an invisible actor. Going on, it should be noticed that in organized magic (that is using spells, rituals and other structured methods to execute particular effect), spells produce an effect and this effect itself is not the magic. It is the cause of an effect that is magic, and this echoes my earlier statement that magic is technically everywhere but also completely natural and normal. A fireball itself is unusual, yes, but not magic; magic is what allows the existence of the fireball.

There is a distinction between magic and a spell. Magic, as explained many times, is natural, a sort of nigh-omnipresent phenomena. Spells, on the other hand, are deliberate applications of magic. Therefore, spells are magic, but magic is not necessarily a spell. And even more, the spell is the process, the magic is the force and the product of the spell is the actual effect. Thus, in pure technicalities, the product of a spell is not actually magical but a consequence of magic. To illustrate using the fireball again, a fireball is fire, the creation of the fireball is brought about by magic, while the activity (process) of utilizing magic to create the fireball is the spell.

An obscure reference would be to Aristotle's definitions of capacity, activity and product.
• Magic is a capacity of sorts, really nothing more than potential by itself. [possible, comparable physics term: potential energy as well as force]
• Spellcasting (spells) is the activity in the capacity of magic. [possible, comparable physics term: work]
• The product is the effect brought about as a consequence of the spell. [possible, comparable physics term: matter]

*Note: If any of these comparisons confuse you, just forget about them. They're not completely correct, but merely reference points to help understanding, so if they do the opposite, just try your best to ignore them.*

I do want to mention one final thing though, and hopefully this doesn't confuse anyone to much, but it is entirely possible for magic to bring about an effect without a spell. This is what is considered a natural phenomena, and this magic is usually rare, weak or vague because it isn't caused by a spell (it lacks intent/focus). It is this phenomena present in, say, a child's magical outburst, which is further described in a following question.

Anyways, this distinction is what allows magical entities that can't, in technical terms, cast spells, such as creatures.
Does magic work like an energy or a process? Is a person's magical prowess limited by their individual innate magical reserve or their knowledge on how to perform the magic?

- Spellcasting is most definitely a process and requires some form of basic understanding of the man made methods to try and give a better structure to the ambiguity of magic. That said magic, in being completely natural, is also very intuitive and is an energy. Actually, a better thing to call it is a presence (as explained in another question), as it isn't quantifiable in the realm (at least not in the setting of this RP), rather than an energy which can usually be measured to some extent. Therefore, a person's magical prowess is not limited by an innate reserve, but rather by their knowledge on the execution. That said, it just so happens that because of the complexities, many don't reach a level where they can do very powerful spells (that is, things considered OP, OOCly).

A good comparison that Schradinger actually made was in likening magic to a technological development. Sure, this was in talking on a different topic, but it can be used in the area too. In this way, magic is too 'underdeveloped' to produce things like a magical atom bomb, per say. Another illustration would again be that of cooking; anyone can theoretically cook to the same degree as anyone, or to put it better has the same potential, (considering the ingredient is available to all, which considering magic is the ingredient in this comparison, it is abundant), but some people just don't cook well, usually from a poor execution stemming from lack of knowledge, preparation and/or practice.
What's stopping a Theon Vilicus from putting a magical aneurysm in Ned D'Cerf's brain the minute they see each other?

- The restrictions introduced in the prior question regarding magic as a process or energy apply in the case of limiting one's abilities with magic. To put it simply, in order to cast a spell, one needs a few things: the potential to do magic (which all have), the choice to use it (a spell is hardly done on accident, well a spell with the desired effect), some sort of intent (that is a desired effect), and the understanding/knowledge required to both prepare and execute the spell. Now, with that, I must also explain that (as mentioned before) magic itself is intuitive to an extent because of its natural state. Simple spells can usually be discerned and figured out with some thought (think level 0 spells from the D&D franchise), just through intuition. More powerful and/or complex spells are where a larger understanding begins to come into play.

To put it simply, Theon Vilicus can't do that because no one can; it's too powerful/complex at this point, although theoretically it is entirely possible. This is the IC explanation for OOC bans/restrictions, which I alluded to in a previous post.
Will children be magicking like in Harry Potter? Able to have emotional magical outbursts? Do adults naturally get better at focusing their magic or do they require training in a Hogwarts?

- Children can use magic similar to the way in Harry Potter, yes, and it is entirely reasonable for them to have magical outbursts. But, as clarified, spells require understanding. Children's emotional, magical outbursts will be either very weak, not of the child's original intent or just not manifest at all because they lack some (or all) of the components that I described above for proper spellcasting. And as mentioned in a previous question, in pure technicalities, these outburst (and the effects following) is not a spell but just plain magic because it lacks the structure/organization to be considered an actual spell, even if the magic's effect is similar/identical to an actual spell.

To bring up Aristotle again, these sorts of uses of magic that aren't spells mirror the philosopher's distinction between a brave man and a man who does what a brave man does but is not actually brave.
What makes these covens special? How do they retain their political/occult power? If magic is something that is relatively common (akin to a natural force) how do they stay on top? What is their power structure like?

- I must admit that coven, in the simplest form, have no 'right' to governance or really anything special about them. They have no reason to be a political entity or anything when merely considering magic, but you must remember that it is still humanity and human civilization. Relying on only magic, there is no reason, but then when you take in mind all the other aspects of human life, you can see the necessity for some sort of organized civilization. I mean, why are we, in our world, in systems of governance? Because, frankly, it was (to some extent) required; civilization of some sort is a natural consequence of existence, as even exhibited by animals. Magic is just another thing in the world among a variety of so many other things that result in the need for politics.

And in the same way, they is nothing special about coven either if you want to get so deep and philosophical and hypothetical. But then again, in actuality, coven are special because they provide government and politics. They just developed a little differently because of the added variable of magic. But in the realm, they are very similar to structure of government present in the middle/dark ages. Coven is just what I decided to call them. Easily, I could have just easily called them provinces or whatever else. Don't let that term define everything, when the name is just a sort of coincidence, when there is so much more involved.

Regarding how they keep power, coven are considered more powerful based on the usual factors: wealth, size, population, etc. Why? Because ultimately, the most important resource is humanity. What is a coven with no one in it? Who is there to use magic and cast spells, if not the only beings with the capacities of the soul that provide that opportunity? Plus, despite the optimistic futures that are possible with magic, alone, magic isn't enough because of the restrictions I explained earlier; in terms of humans and spellcasting, magic isn't powerful enough to solve every problem. It is just another variable.

Therefore, in regards to a traditional political system, the game of kings and of thrones is still the same. Power is distributed unevenly. There is inequality among coven, both in regards to each other and within themselves. The D'Cerf, in particular, does have a sort of caste system because of the hierarchical roles that people hold. Some are servants, others are nobles, as magic is more than the only thing in deciding power.

Finally, to conclude, every individual is unique and do have their own motivations. Some may not even want to pursue a path to power, in the sense of the word as we have been using it. But then others will. The Vilicus have their reasons and your characters will their own. And as will be stated in the OOC, such is one of the focuses on this RP: the path of power and the whys and hows involved.

Magic is amoral, beyond definition as neutral, good, evil or otherwise; the people are not.
On the topic of the haemonculi:

- Compiling all the information I've given, regarding magic, spells and technology, I can safely say that haemonculi will be basic in their functions, limited. I would say that they are 'simple' automatons, as they should be incapable of any sort of thought or reasoning (which is what defines a human and gives them the ability to cast spells). They will also be incapable of using magic in the way of casting spells because of this. I hope you understand all the reasoning why, which is concluded from all of the other things that have been discussed thus far.
On the topic of magic schools and types:

- As extrapolated earlier, there is no real organization of magic into the types we're used to. The only big distinction is the difference between mere magic and actual spellcasting, which I clarified in prior answers. Spells can come in many forms, as long as they meet all the criteria mentioned above, so singing magic is definitely possible. ;)
And to refer to Schradinger again, as Nemaisare pointed out, I'm sure we all realize how magic, when compared to technology, can cause just as many problems as it solves. Thank you for that, by the way, Schradinger. Although you didn't know my vision, you were able to articulate it quite well in your comparison.
If you have any questions or arguments, again, I encourage it!

Also, the OOC will be arriving within a matter of hours; I will posting a FAQ section that has a record of all the questions and answers we have discussed so far.
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All I got for this is: *\o/* YAY!
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Nemaisare

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Double post... But I was originally thinking that a coven worked like a large keep, in one building, though including every household member. The explanation above seems more geared towards a whole duchy or small kingdom. So... just for clarification on my part.

Is the term coven meant to replace the conglomerate of one household/castle/estate, or one county/country/province/land? Errrr, I suppose, does the coven boundary stop at one building's walls(but with the political clout extending farther), or does it encompass multiple villages and towns and cities and high ranking members?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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Your original assumption was correct.Coven do live in within a smaller area confined within one set of walls, like a keep or castle or hold, albeit with a few buildings, more than just one. I used those other terms to get my point across on the political standpoint of coven. Sorry if it confused you.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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You're very welcome, Ichthys. Glad I could help. :) I've had my eye on this for a few days now waiting to see how it developed, and the general direction you were taking it in seemed fairly obvious from your prior posts.

Though just to clarify, as it hasn't been explicitly asked or answered, is magic capable of creating a result purely from itself and the intent of a witch? For example, would a witch in need of sustenance be able to materialize a loaf of bread? This seems to be one of the assumptions behind the aforementioned argument of magic solving all the worlds problems and conflict becoming a non-factor. Personally, I'm operating under the assumption that outright conjuration of something from nothing except magic isn't possible, again going by what you've said already and the fact that something like that would indeed tend to render politics a moot point.

Another assumption I've seen is that everyone would have the same capability to be self-sustaining based on magic alone, but if I'm correct in my own assumptions regarding the first assumption then this assumption becomes a non-issue as well. Even in our own world, there are smart people and not so smart people, and while both of them have access to the same technology, one will be much more adept in its use than the other.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Nemaisare
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No worries, Ichthys, that's what questions are for. ;) I just wasn't sure if the term was covering the particular powerhead(so not the term I want but pfffft it means what I need it to) of an area or the space that power was responsible for. Now I know. Confusion gone.

Heh. Good points, Schradinger. Also, just paid attention to your avatar. I do like.

EDIT: As spell is the go to now for the work done to cause anything to occur using magic... and you've mentioned there isn't really a type or the like, but that it is a process... Can more than one process of steps be compiled into a spell that will accomplish the same thing? Like... Fireball... oh how we like the fireballs.

Could two people able to use magic, with the intent to make a fireball, having decided to use a spell to do so, create the same, or extremely similar summoned, burning fireshape effect by say, person A turning three times and clapping twice and thinking about fire, while person B shouts "FIRE!" and points somewhere?

What dictates, or is presumed to dictate, the methods used in any specific spell? From divination to elemental control to raising the dead or moving a pot of water over someone's head and dumping it on them to stop a fistfight?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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In regards to your questions, Schradinger, yes, it is impossible to create something from what is basically nothing. Same basic laws of physics still apply in the realm (conservation in this case). That said, from the get go, I can see two possible ways for a loaf of bread to be 'conjured'. The first is in basic transmutation (equivalent exchange), as it is possible, although transmutation isn't the easiest effect to cast a spell for, as there are many variables involved in the shifting of matter's properties. Thus, although entirely possible, it isn't something to rely solely on, especially in regards to resources needed for basic living. The second way would be in conjuration, in terms of shifting the location of matter, that is: teleportation. Now, teleportation is also very difficult to do because of a different set of confounding factors that make the spell harder to execute but for the intent of summoning a loaf of bread, it is possible.

Your second assumption is also correct in that everyone has the potential, but potential is far from the actual ability. See my answer/discussion on the question: "Does magic come from within the individual or from the natural magically saturated environment?" which details this thing a bit more.
Yes, you are right in thinking that one could use a different set of steps to achieve the same affect. It's one of the most unique (and enjoyable, in my opinion) parts of this magic system. Still, for the sake of the OOC, a rule of thumb is that more 'powerful' spells should have more difficult and longer preparations/executions, just to stave off any metagaming godmodding and the like.

I recall alluding to this when speaking about a child's magical outburst.

This "different method, same product" factor only exists on certain spells though, particularly the very common and basic ones; Other spells have yet to be replicated by other steps (that doesn't mean that they can't be though), and in fact, figuring out the steps for any spells is a long process, involving a lot of experimentation, trial-and-error, practice and reasoning. This is why witches (especially those within the same coven) stick to the same way of casting a spell, for finding another way wouldn't be very pragmatic.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Ichthys
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Post to mention that my previous post has been edited for you, Nemaisare. This is now a bit ironic though, since I'm posting to let you know I edited.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Schradinger
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The more I hear about this magic system, the more I like it. Very open-ended, yet at the same time bound by the basic rules of existence, making it fundamentally understandable. More or less. Lol.

Now necromancy has also been mentioned several times but never really clarified, which has gotten me wondering about the nature and existence (or lack thereof) of spirits, ghosts, and wraiths, as well as the nature of necromancy itself. Would the resurrection of a corpse necessitate the returning of the soul to that corpse, or would the corpse simply be a hollow shell following the directives of the necromancer? Or would both options be possible? Regarding spirits, is it possible for souls to linger after death and communicate or interact with the living? Is it possible to bind a spirit to the mortal coil with a spell or accidental outburst of magic?

PS. I apologize for the bad sentence structure. It's getting too late over here for philosophical ramblings...
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