Basically my religion is based upon the practices Jesus Christ, and a forgiving God.

God was vengeful, but now, he doesn't appear to be doing anything lately. I think its because he just done with us, he looks at us the same as a parent looks at a child, he used to help us, but now we're grown up and able to stand on our own. God forgives us for all that we did and will do.

Jesus was an amazing person who wouldn't want to be like him, in all of what we do. Now we can't be exactly like him that's impossible, humans aren't wired like that, but we can try.

Thanks for reading. AMA

But, aren't the Vengeful Lord and Jesus the same?

Exodus 3:14

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

John 8:56-59

"56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Not, "I was". It is clear the Jews recognized his claim to divinity because,

"59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."

And personal interpretations like this is what causes new religious branches (and eventually new religions all together) to happen.

Charlie said
Basically my religion is based upon the practices Jesus Christ, and a forgiving God.

God was vengeful, but now, he doesn't appear to be doing anything lately. I think its because he just done with us, he looks at us the same as a parent looks at a child, he used to help us, but now we're grown up and able to stand on our own. God forgives us for all that we did and will do.

Jesus was an amazing person who wouldn't want to be like him, in all of what we do. Now we can't be exactly like him that's impossible, humans aren't wired like that, but we can try.

Thanks for reading. AMA

Wait, isnt this already mainstream christianity? What did you even change?

So Boerd said
But, aren't the Vengeful Lord and Jesus the same?Exodus 3:14"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."John 8:56-59"56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."Not, "I was". It is clear the Jews recognized his claim to divinity because,"59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."

The nearly everything in the bible contradicts something else in the bible not to mention common sense and modern science.

Which is why i don't believe in a two thousand year old book written by a bunch of superstitious desert people who had no idea how the world worked

Sounds Christian to me. Or at least Unitarian. Now the real catch would be instead of being a whole new religion, is it really an all new branch of Christianity (or Unitarianism) or are there denominations out there that already have this as part of their teachings?

Vortex said Wait, isnt this already mainstream christianity? What did you even change?

I'll note I'm mainly exposed to Catholicism in RL and mainly to Protestant on the Internet.
But what he changed was:

-God essentially seeing us as grown ups and leaving. According to other branches I've seen he never left, he still looms/watches over us expecting praise and belief or we'll be sentenced to hell forever (or if you're a casual, if you're simply not a good person).

-He forgives us for all that we did and will do. Now, if this is strictly in reference to the Cross than this isn't a change. But if he's referring to general behaviour (which is a contradiction himself. If he died for all our sins at the cross, they would have no fear to enter hell) there's still some sort of condition for God to forgive you. Generally being simply asking for forgiveness or becoming a christian. A low requirement mind you, but still a requirement. He's not forgiving atheists, jews, muslims etc. who dismiss that he exists and therefore don't ask for his forgiveness for things.

-Plus the obvious contradiction of, if God or Jesus (even if we go with the 'they're separate individuals' approach) truly said the things and committed the acts shown in the bible
they are by any moral persons standards not good people, but very terrible and cruel people. But like I said, this is more of a contradiction. Since most Christians either turn a blind eye to this and call them good people, or simply don't read the bible to begin with so they have no idea who they're actually worshipping.

Vortex said The nearly everything in the bible contradicts something else in the bible not to mention common sense and modern science.Which is why i don't believe in a two thousand year old book written by a bunch of superstitious desert people who had no idea how the world worked

Same, I was able to ditch such wild ideas at the age of 16/17.

Magic Magnum said
I'll note I'm mainly exposed to Catholicism in RL and mainly to Protestant on the Internet.But what he changed was: -God essentially seeing us as grown ups and leaving. According to other branches I've seen he never left, he still looms/watches over us expecting praise and belief or we'll be sentenced to hell forever (or if you're a casual, if you're simply not a good person).-He forgives us for all that we did and will do. Now, if this is strictly in reference to the Cross than this isn't a change. But if he's referring to general behaviour (which is a contradiction himself. If he died for all our sins at the cross, they would have no fear to enter hell) there's still some sort of condition for God to forgive you. Generally being simply asking for forgiveness or becoming a christian. A low requirement mind you, but still a requirement. He's not forgiving atheists, jews, muslims etc. who dismiss that he exists and therefore don't ask for his forgiveness for things.

Ah i see. I don't really pay attention to the different beliefs of the many branches of Christianity, mostly since I go to a Catholic school and they like to pretend they are the only Christians that exist and so I wasn't taught about them. Instead I prefer to criticise Christianity (or religion in general) as a whole, which has got me in trouble many times before :)

Magic Magnum said
-Plus the obvious contradiction of, if God or Jesus (even if we go with the 'they're separate individuals' approach) truly said the things and committed the acts shown in the bible they are by any moral persons standards not good people, but very terrible and cruel people. But like I said, this is more of a contradiction. Since most Christians either turn a blind eye to this and call them good people, or simply don't read the bible to begin with so they have no idea who they're actually worshipping.Same, I was able to ditch such wild ideas at the age of 16/17.

Something which I love to point out and see how peeved people get

The Catholics in my area like to claim they're not Christian at all but rather a different religion altogether.
It's rather cute watching them get mad when they're called Christians.

And yea, most people Christians I've found either get furious when you point to the Bible or they're the casual kind who don't listen to the Bible anyways so it holds zero weight to them.

Plus the obvious contradiction of, if God or Jesus (even if we go with the 'they're separate individuals' approach) truly said the things and committed the acts shown in the bible
they are by any moral persons standards not good people, but very terrible and cruel people. But like I said, this is more of a contradiction. Since most Christians either turn a blind eye to this and call them good people, or simply don't read the bible to begin with so they have no idea who they're actually worshipping.

Morality doesn't exist. It's not real.

We don't actually have any worship, god knows I love him, putting it in any form of private or public worship is pointless to our dear omnipotent deity.

So Boerd said
Morality doesn't exist. It's not real.

Just to play the devils advocate, do you have any support for this?

Charlie said
We don't actually have any worship, god knows I love him, putting it in any form of private or public worship is pointless to our dear omnipotent deity.

We? You have converted others then?

Maybe, have I converted any of y'all?

So Boerd said
Morality doesn't exist. It's not real.

True, but Christianity/The Bible constantly acts like it does.
And if it did, then God and Jesus themselves would be seen as immoral.

Charlie said
Maybe, have I converted any of y'all?

I can see this getting messy quickly.

I am not seeing any religion being made. Just seeing a tired old interpretation.

So Boerd said
Morality doesn't exist. It's not real.

Source?

ASTA said
Source?

I am an Epistemeological Solipsist. Reality may or may not exist, because I am perceiving it through the senses. We could all be brains in vats. To assume otherwise (with no proof) is to be dogmatic. Occam's Razor renders reality unneccessary.

Magic Magnum said
True, but Christianity/The Bible constantly acts like it does.And if it did, then God and Jesus themselves would be seen as immoral.

Yes, and no. One way to interpret it all is an "appeal to force". Morality is a series of appeals to force (you steal, you get arrested). God has all the force, he gets to decide what's right and wrong. I don't particularly agree with this line of thinking, but it technically would reconcile theism and moral relativism.

What I gathered from reading the bible is that "social morals" (IE, what's socially acceptable or legal) are relative, while "divine morals" are not. Basically, society runs in circles morally (what was acceptable 100 years ago is not today, and what is acceptable today will not be acceptable 100 years into the future). God's considered a static point by which society is judged, as opposed to the other way around.

The problem with the claim that Christ is good, but Christianity or the Christian God is not is this:

1) Jesus and God mutually approve of everything the other does. For that matter, they actually don't act that different per say. Old Testament God isn't really that vengeful (for example, in the book of Judges, he repeatedly forgives the nation for its own transgressions and seems to have an attitude of "I'll always take you back"), nor was Christ/New Testament God really all that merciful (in the book of revelation, he kills innumerable amounts of people. In fact, he's possibly more violent during this period of time than old testament God ever was)

2) Christians seek to be like Jesus. If you have complaints about the ways Christians generally behave, but have no such complaints with Christ, then your complaint is more that they aren't Christian enough.

Robeatics said
I can see this getting messy quickly.

They normally do at some point. It's just a matter of getting what discussion we can out of it before someone asks the mods to close it.

Protagonist said
Yes, and no. One way to interpret it all is an "appeal to force". Morality is a series of appeals to force (you steal, you get arrested). God has all the force, he gets to decide what's right and wrong. I don't particularly agree with this line of thinking, but it technically would reconcile theism and moral relativism.What I gathered from reading the bible is that "social morals" (IE, what's socially acceptable or legal) are relative, while "divine morals" are not. Basically, society runs in circles morally (what was acceptable 100 years ago is not today, and what is acceptable today will not be acceptable 100 years into the future). God's considered a static point by which society is judged, as opposed to the other way around.

That does seem to be how Religion looks at and defines morality, looking at the all "How are you moral if you don't believe in God?" crap that get's spewed.
I could go on forever arguing why Religions interpretation of Gods and Morals is messed up. But that would do nothing to change how religion sees god, nor would there too much point cause morality is always subjective no matter who you look at, so I'd basically be arguing on the basis of my own subjective morality.

Protagonist said
The problem with the claim that Christ is good, but Christianity or the Christian God is not is this:1) Jesus and God mutually approve of everything the other does. For that matter, they actually don't act that different per say. Old Testament God isn't really that vengeful (for example, in the book of Judges, he repeatedly forgives the nation for its own transgressions and seems to have an attitude of "I'll always take you back"), nor was Christ/New Testament God really all that merciful (in the book of revelation, he kills innumerable amounts of people. In fact, he's possibly more violent during this period of time than old testament God ever was)2) Christians seek to be like Jesus. If you have complaints about the ways Christians generally behave, but have no such complaints with Christ, then your complaint is more that they aren't Christian enough.

1) If we go the route that God and Jesus are the same person, then it's not they approve all of what the other does. It is the same person doing all of it. But if we go the Jesus is the son of God route, perhaps. But it theoretically it's also possible that behind the scenes they disagree with some of each others actions, but it's nothing something they dare show humanity. As for OT vs NT, there's a lot of scriptures in both that can be used to reinforce he was a violent sadist or that he was a forgiving saint. But such variance and inconsistency is what tends to happen the book is written by a ton of sand people who were not ever allowed to alter one anothers work. That or god is bipolar.

2) Not really. Most atheists I run into to tend to say "You Christians are awful, but Jesus was kind of decent" still disagree with Jesus in regards to if Christianity is true. They just find Jesus to generally be a more decent and moral person than most Christians are, so it's basically another way of them saying "I wish you Christians were more moral".