So Boerd said Why do you have such a visceral reaction to religion? Why can't you tolerate us? You would not behave this way if someone said they felt like a man, a woman, and a mule at the same time, so why hate on those who believe in God? There are very Nobel Laureates which believe in God, so clearly Science isn't being hindered. You have already said morality doesn't exist, so there go your moral judgements about it.

There are gender identities that count as being both male and female and others that count as none.
Though the Mule part? Then I'd suggest they see a doctor... :/

And I get there are good religious people. But that doesn't change the fact the system is still messed up, it doesn't change the fact that areas still have to fight to get people a proper education because Religion is so against it. It also doesn't change the fact that many people are drawn into it when more vulnerable, either having their mental state taken advantage of or in cases such as AA an outright requirement.

And acknowledging that good religious people exist (The current Pope being a decent one) does not suddenly mean the system is fine.

Though the Mule part? Then I'd suggest they see a doctor... :/

Why are you so sapionormative? Why can't you accept them for who they are?

doesn't change the fact that areas still have to fight to get people a proper education because Religion is so against it

Funny thing is, if you had been more specific and said "Islam", THAT would have been considered offensive, but condemning all of us is fine.

Then advocate for the destruction of Islam specifically, and leave us alone.

It also doesn't change the fact that many people are drawn into it when more vulnerable, either having their mental state taken advantage of or in cases such as AA an outright requirement.

I think you'll find the run of the mill atheist is not the rationalist as yourself, but was moved to it by tragedy. I've been all over the internet and very rarely are they a Dawkins. The most common argument is "The world SUCKS, so no God!"

So Boerd said Why are you so sapionormative?

It's an animal, it would be like me saying "I identify as a dog. I am not a male nor female, I am a dog".

So Boerd said Then advocate for the destruction of Islam specifically, and leave us alone.

Oh, you think just Islam does bad stuff in the name of religion...



That's cute.

So Boerd said I think you'll find the run of the mill atheist is not the rationalist as yourself, but was moved to it by tragedy. I've been all over the internet and very rarely are they a Dawkins. The most common argument is "The world SUCKS, so no God!"

AA = Alcoholics Anonymous.
It wasn't an atheist reference like you seem to think it is.

And most atheists I find were atheists cause they were either raised without a religion, or were raised religiously and then found it didn't make sense.
Barely do I find an atheist who is doing it out of rebellion or hate for the world.

Oh, you think just Islam does bad stuff in the name of religion...

Recently? Essentially yes. More people are murdered by the clinically insane than the Christians in the name of Christianity, which we may consider the "Margin of error" for statistically significant violence. Even that Anders guy in Norway beloved by the media because he fit the narrative turned out to be an Atheist interested in perserving Christian culture, which is not the same thing.

AA = Alcoholics Anonymous.
It wasn't an atheist reference like you seem to think it is.

And most atheists I find were atheists cause they were either raised without a religion, or were raised religiously and then found it didn't make sense.
Barely do I find an atheist who is doing it out of rebellion or hate for the world.

1. I didn't say otherwise.

2. "Doesn't make sense" and what I said are not exclusive.

Please tell me more about your religion, oh great pastor.
I am looking to serve the lord and you are the wisdom needed for me to succeed

The Catholic Church is like the mafia of religions.

Magic Magnum said
Barely do I find an atheist who is doing it out of rebellion or hate for the world.

I have to agree wit Magnum, here. Very atheistic, nihilistic ideologies such as Nietzche's or Ayn Rand's tend to be very optimistic about human nature and the world (Humans are so good, that just by following our first hedonistic urge we can make the world a better place). The bible, by contrast, is rather cynical (basically, "the world" is a horrible place that can only be saved by divine intervention, one that Christians should try to distance themselves from somewhat). Mind you, I tend to agree with the bible's cynicism. Case in point, though: the world being a terrible place is a prediction of the bible, and it would actually make more sense for Atheists to be optimistic by nature.

bosesbjorn said
The Catholic Church is like the mafia of religions.

way to be an ignorant bigot, are jews the bankers of religion in your opinion? please tell me what are Mormons to you?

Magic Magnum said
There are gender identities that count as being both male and female and others that count as none.Though the Mule part? Then I'd suggest they see a doctor... :/And I get there are good religious people. But that doesn't change the fact the system is still messed up, it doesn't change the fact that areas still have to fight to get people a proper education because Religion is so against it. It also doesn't change the fact that many people are drawn into it when more vulnerable, either having their mental state taken advantage of or in cases such as AA an outright requirement. And acknowledging that good religious people exist (The current Pope being a decent one) does not suddenly mean the system is fine.

I have to completely disagree with you, there is no system that is not screwed in someone's view or another, and it's YOUR views not everyone else. See good and evil are simply just opinions on what's morally right and wrong, hints why our views have changed so much over human history. By your logic government is bad because there are countless systems out there that have killed tons of people, rigged elections, started rebellions and have become so corrupt that it seems impassible to fix, do we now get rid of government? No because it's human flaws that mess things up not religion or whatever people like to rip on. Humans just want to find something to blame for their problems rather look at themselves as the source of the problem. I'm catholic and I know full well what the church has done in its history, but i am also American and I know full well what my country has done in its history, but I am still a proud catholic and a proud American. If you are so obsessed with being part of something that is not guilty of human error then you're just setting yourself up to be constantly disappointed when things don't work out the way you want them to.

Yog Sothoth said
way to be an ignorant bigot, are jews the bankers of religion in your opinion? please tell me what are Mormons to you?

Woah there. Slow down. Don't get ahead of yourself. I wasn't speaking of all catholics, or even criticising the catholic church. Just making an observation. Their hierarchy and certain policies they have as well as how they tend to be portrayed in media just remind me of the mafia a bit. As for mormons they've always made me think of door to door salesmen for obvious reasons. Although outside of the stereotype I never thought much for jews on bankers. Although I'm not sure what I'd relate them to.

I don't like it when people hate people. I don't believe in God myself, I think it's silly to do so. But I don't hate anyone for believing, and I think everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe as long as it doesn't affect anyone else.

However I know a lot of people who identify as "athiests" who hate religion which I think is wrong. If anything I think atheists should be *more* tolerant, but sometimes that isn't true.

Yog Sothoth said
I have to completely disagree with you, there is no system that is not screwed in someone's view or another, and it's YOUR views not everyone else. See good and evil are simply just opinions on what's morally right and wrong, hints why our views have changed so much over human history. By your logic government is bad because there are countless systems out there that have killed tons of people, rigged elections, started rebellions and have become so corrupt that it seems impassible to fix, do we now get rid of government? No because it's human flaws that mess things up not religion or whatever people like to rip on. Humans just want to find something to blame for their problems rather look at themselves as the source of the problem. I'm catholic and I know full well what the church has done in its history, but i am also American and I know full well what my country has done in its history, but I am still a proud catholic and a proud American. If you are so obsessed with being part of something that is not guilty of human error then you're just setting yourself up to be constantly disappointed when things don't work out the way you want them to.

No system is perfect, that's true.
But that doesn't mean I should simply be willing to accept and agree with any system just because flaws will always exist.
Yes Humans are part of the problem, people wanting to blame something else rather than themselves. But what about cases where a child was raised by their religious parents to hate science, LGBT people etc? Is that a case of the child making excuses? Or is that a case of a rather broken belief system corrupting a child's mind?

henrypotema said
I don't like it when people hate people. I don't believe in God myself, I think it's silly to do so. But I don't hate anyone for believing, and I think everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe as long as it doesn't affect anyone else. However I know a lot of people who identify as "athiests" who hate religion which I think is wrong. If anything I think atheists should be *more* tolerant, but sometimes that isn't true.

This does remind me to make a clarification because often times people misunderstand me.
I don't hate religious people, at all. What I hate is how religion as a system as hurt so many people, and gotten in the way of things such as science and medical advancement.

Magic, condemn then only those who "raise their children to hate science", and not the rest of us unless you're prepared for atheism to accept ideological responsibility for the crimes of Communism. And, those during the far less bloody Crusades didn't know any better, having been raised to think that way and knowing no alternative. What was Mao or Stalin's excuse, having seen a peaceful, modern society and then chose a brutal murderous totalitarian state?

We've covered this with you many times now Boerd. Communism, Mao, Stalin etc. were never done in the name of atheism. They were simply assholes who wanted power, never did the go "In the name of there being no god!" or anything like that. Hell those examples are actually very religious by nature, setting someone in charge and forcing everyone to essentially worship them, treat their word as law and giving them unlimited power.

Magic Magnum said
We've covered this with you many times now Boerd. Communism, Mao, Stalin etc. were never done in the name of atheism. They were simply assholes who wanted power, never did the go "In the name of there being no god!" or anything like that. Hell those examples are actually very religious by nature, setting someone in charge and forcing everyone to essentially worship them, treat their word as law and giving them unlimited power.

Were done in the name of Communism, which has as a core tenet the denial of God. If Communism had as a core tenet "Christ was God", you'd call it a religion. The Thirty Years' war and Sack of Constantinople prove that most "religious" conflict is the result of secular reasons anyway. They would have found another reason to fight.

Also, you don't get to change the definition of religion.

Magic Magnum said
We've covered this with you many times now Boerd. Communism, Mao, Stalin etc. were never done in the name of atheism. They were simply assholes who wanted power, never did the go "In the name of there being no god!" or anything like that. Hell those examples are actually very religious by nature, setting someone in charge and forcing everyone to essentially worship them, treat their word as law and giving them unlimited power.

Communism is inherently atheistic, though atheism is not inherently communist (objectivism is atheist and basically the opposite of Marxism). However, what Communism does reflect two things:

1. We don't need religion to create dictatorships or worship people.

2. Atheists who believe that religion is detrimental to human progress sometimes commit the same crimes associated with religious extremists.

So Boerd said Were done in the name of Communism, which has as a core tenet the denial of God. If Communism had as a core tenet "Christ was God", you'd call it a religion. The Thirty Years' war and Sack of Constantinople prove that most "religious" conflict is the result of secular reasons anyway. They would have found another reason to fight.Also, you don't get to change the definition of religion.

Denying God with the purpose of treating the Dictator like a God. Nothing in atheism involves worshipping a man like a God.
Also, I'm not changing the definition of religion. I'm just noting that the actions of communism tend to be very similliar to the way religion acts.

Protagonist said Communism is inherently atheistic, though atheism is not inherently communist (objectivism is atheist and basically the opposite of Marxism).

That's a good way of wording it that I hadn't thought of.

Protagonist said However, what Communism does reflect two things:

1. We don't need religion to create dictatorships or worship people.

2. Atheists who believe that religion is detrimental to human progress sometimes commit the same crimes associated with religious extremists.

1. That is true, but it does make it far easier to do so. And acts as a way to get loyalty from people you would otherwise not have the loyalty of.

2. That's also true, but it doesn't mean religion doesn't function as a way to worsen/amplify humanity's more violent and barbaric behaviours and tendencies.