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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Doivid
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Doivid

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So can I use you guys?

I want to poll some people on the grammaticality of some sentences (because opinions differ, and because when you start working on assignment you end up a little turned around and lose your sense of what is grammatical). Two things to get out of the way:

- 'grammaticality' is just whether you would say the utterance.
- punctuation doesn't matter for the purpose of these sentences, so ignore that.

Some sample sentences for you to judge:

(3) I believe [that the idea [that pigs can fly] seems reasonable].
(4) [that a guy likes bikes] makes sense.
(5) I don't know [if billy ate the cat].

(6) The boy [who left home] came back.
(7) [That the boy [who left home]] came back] was fortunate.
(8) [That [that he went home] is a fact] won't change anything.

(the brackets just denote CPs and RCs, disregard them)

As thanks, I'll show you this pretty picture:

Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by scribz
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The fuck are you studying man D:

(hold for me to look at this and decide later <3)
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Doivid
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I am taking Syntax II atm. It's incredibly challenging, especially considering how they teach it.

It's been a rough couple of quarters, man. :(
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by aza
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aza Artichokes

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Whats the question again?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Doivid
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Whats the question again?


Which of the numbered sentences are grammatical, if any?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by scribz
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scribz

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I am taking Syntax II atm. It's incredibly challenging, especially considering how they teach it.

It's been a rough couple of quarters, man. :(


But what does that mean!?

*shakes voilently*

WHAT DOES IT MEAN
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by scribz
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scribz

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I am taking Syntax II atm. It's incredibly challenging, especially considering how they teach it.

It's been a rough couple of quarters, man. :(


But what does that mean!?

*shakes voilently*

WHAT DOES IT MEAN
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by scribz
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scribz

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woops.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by aza
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aza Artichokes

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<Snipped quote by Azarthes>

Which of the numbered sentences are grammatical, if any?


3 5 6
Hidden 10 yrs ago 10 yrs ago Post by scribz
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scribz

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Also 5 and 6 seem fine, the rest do not.

EDIT: Also 1.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by mdk
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mdk 3/4

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Also 5 and 6 seem fine, the rest do not.

EDIT: Also 1.


That. The rest are parse-able but nothing I would say..... although, #3 almost makes sense in broken speech, but it's still rather clumsy.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Doivid
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I forgot to mention, some of those 'thats' can be ellided. That is, they are syntactically there, but you don't have to say them.

For example:

"I believe that he said that he was going to the store"

Can be:

"I believe he said he was going to the store"
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Vilageidiotx Jacobin of All Trades

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<Snipped quote by Doivid>

But what does that mean!?

*shakes voilently*

WHAT DOES IT MEAN


The secret is to pick a set of numbers that sound important.

Like 4 and 5 because that is the end of World War II and not accepting those numbers would be a Nazi thing to do.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Holmishire
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Holmishire Ghost with no home.

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All of them read grammatically to me. The eighth one is tricky, on a first read-through it fails but as I begin to parse it I can bring myself to read it naturally. The other five are 100% good in my books.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by aza
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aza Artichokes

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by 356 i mean the (#) next to them btw
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Doivid
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All of them read grammatically to me. The eighth one is tricky, on a first read-through it fails but as I begin to parse it I can bring myself to read it naturally. The other five are 100% good in my books.


Believe it or not, even I did. I still do unless I have the brackets for (8). I believe in my syntax I class we decided CP specs with CP specs nested in them aren't grammatical, but the field is more open in this course so I decided to craft one. You can probably ellide one of those 'thats' and then it'll sound more natural.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Halo
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3, 5, 6, and 7 are things I can see myself saying, depending on preceding conversation.

By which I mean that, for example, "the boy [who left home] came back" makes sense if I were clarifying between two different boys, one of whom left home and one did not. If I were not clarifying in such a way, I'd be unlikely to include the "who left home" part.

Hope that helps?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Doivid
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3, 5, 6, and 7 are things I can see myself saying, depending on preceding conversation.

By which I mean that, for example, "the boy [who left home] came back" makes sense if I were clarifying between two different boys, one of whom left home and one did not. If I were not clarifying in such a way, I'd be unlikely to include the "who left home" part.

Hope that helps?


Yeah, the text between brackets is a 'relative clause', which is an adjunct. Adjuncts are phrases that are not required for the grammaticality of the sentence. You can say "I like dogs" or "I like dogs [that bark often]."

(4) is a little tricky because CP spec utterances almost always seem awkward. I could try to generate one that's more likely (since I mostly just applied verbs and nouns indiscriminately):

"That you lied to me...is not okay. But I understand why you did it."

The first sentence in that quote has the same structure as (4), is something people would actually say, and I added a pause to help it make more sense.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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I hear that in some cultures, they actually consume guinea pigs. I find that ridiculous. It's as barbaric as eating a horse.
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