This coming Thursday, I am doing a speech on this topic. I was really struggle to decide on what I would do, and Jero gave me this topic and now I can't wait. So, for my speech, I am wanting some input. What do you think on this subject?

Do you think there is too much? What do you think can be done about it? Basically, any thoughts you may have about the sexual objectification of women in video games.

Well it is, at its simplest, a marketing strategy.

Video games are stereotypically "a guy thing", and what tends to get guys' attention? Attractive women.

And whether it's a matter of these marketing techniques actually working or just the fact that they're impossible to avoid now, these games sell. And that encourages game developers to keep going with it.

So really I think the biggest thing that would need to change is for the game industry to acknowledge that there are more female gamers out there than they think. The only games I ever really see marketed towards females are kids' games, so the "hardcore" gamers are still primarily male, in the eyes of the developers. Bringing more female gamers of that age to their attention might make them change their portrayal of women a little.

Sex sells. Women will always be objectified in some entertainment products. Guys will keep buying them. Nothing to be done.

EDIT: Besides, guys are constantly sexually objectified in videogames as well. Practically every single male protagonist in action games is a buff, good looking or overly intimidating and highly masculine guy. It works both ways.

As Kaga said, it's marketing to the lowest common denominator. It's not just that men like attractive women, because women like attractive women. What gets me is that the oversexualization. Like a game where the higher level you get, the less armor your female character wears. The 'bikini' armor, it's a joke, while male characters get all sorts of heavy gear. I don't play many games, but I've seen it in WoW, Rift, and Guild Wars, mostly fantasy based games. Emphasis on the fantasy part. I play Lord of the Rings Online, which is more realistic looking and the female characters, aside from cosmetic dresses, wear the same armor as the men. So if you're tanking, you're in full plate and helm, rather than a ridiculous iron g-string. That game also has an older demographic and it's pretty much split 50-50 when it comes to the sex of the gamer.

I enjoy that game partly because my female character doesn't have to look like a floozy. I mean, there is one thing to look attractive and another to look like stripper. It's few and far between that you can find this though.

Hank said Besides, guys are constantly sexually objectified in videogames as well. Practically every single male protagonist in action games is a buff, good looking or overly intimidating and highly masculine guy. It works both ways.

I thought about mentioning this as well. Though my point is that they still get treated better in the costuming department.

Hank said
EDIT: Besides, guys are constantly sexually objectified in videogames as well. Practically every single male protagonist in action games is a buff, good looking overly intimidating and highly masculine guy. It works both ways.

I think it has to do with people enjoying the power fantasy that games can have.
You don't look ugly in a power fantasy

idlehands said
As Kaga said, it's marketing to the lowest common denominator. It's not just that men like attractive women, because women like attractive women. What gets me is that the oversexualization. Like a game where the higher level you get, the less armor your female character wears. The 'bikini' armor, it's a joke, while male characters get all sorts of heavy gear. I don't play many games, but I've seen it in WoW, Rift, and Guild Wars, mostly fantasy based games. Emphasis on the fantasy part. I play Lord of the Rings Online, which is more realistic looking and the female characters, aside from cosmetic dresses, wear the same armor as the men. So if you're tanking, you're in full plate and helm, rather than a ridiculous iron g-string. That game also has an older demographic and it's pretty much split 50-50 when it comes to the sex of the gamer. I enjoy that game partly because my female character doesn't have to look like a floozy. I mean, there is one thing to look attractive and another to look like stripper. It's few and far between that you can find this though.I thought about mentioning this as well. Though my point is that they still get treated better in the costuming department.

Ever play Tera?

Hank said
Sex sells. Women will always be objectified in some entertainment products. Guys will keep buying them. Nothing to be done.EDIT: Besides, guys are constantly sexually objectified in videogames as well. Practically every single male protagonist in action games is a buff, good looking overly intimidating and highly masculine guy. It works both ways.

That's a man's ideal though. Not a woman's.

ImANargleHunter said
That's a man's ideal though. Not a woman's.

Big generalization there. Careful with that.

The tech and gaming world are a boy's club.

Not until the past three to five years has it felt like it's getting any better.

Feels like the largest-remaining holdout of oversexualized females, hostility towards women, and locker-room heteronormativity.

Hank said
Sex sells. Women will always be objectified in some entertainment products. Guys will keep buying them. Nothing to be done.EDIT: Besides, guys are constantly sexually objectified in videogames as well. Practically every single male protagonist in action games is a buff, good looking overly intimidating and highly masculine guy. It works both ways.

I agree with this statement. Trying to play video games while seeing women's bust giggle and hips shake is a bit off putting, but I'd not trade it for the handsome hunk that is my co-hort. Sex does sell and unfortunately the world is not interested in reality. We wish to live in a fantasy where everyone is beautiful and strong and fit - hence the visual effects of the protagonist in all video games and his sexy side kick.

I agree with women being as bad as men most day too though... make all of the male hero's small and unshapely and watch the sales of Marvel's hunk movies and games drop.

I don't think it's much of a controversial topic. It should be stopped; there's no way to justify it. The more difficult question is what we should do about it. We can't ban artwork; we've been through this situation over and over again. We also can't pretend that developers are awful people for doing it, or even that they're necessarily doing it on purpose. Developers, especially fantasy developers, are huge nerds. Their gaming experience is probably rooted in DnD, where this whole issue can be traced. Some of them may see their female characters and find nothing wrong with them at a glance because it's been the standard for so long. A sense of tradition has always been much more harmful and lasting than genuine conviction or malice.

We could get a lot of honest developers to stop depicting women this way. They mean well, but what happens when those that don't will do it anyway for marketing's sake? Then the problem stays in the industry and more people grow up with it. It's a problem, for sure, but one has to wonder where and how we can correct it.

ImANargleHunter said
That's a man's ideal though. Not a woman's.

It's fair to generalize what one half of the human population likes, but not the other?

My opinion of sexual objectification of women in video games is that it doesn't exist, or rather doesn't exist in the capacity in which it's treated. The 'objectification', as people have unfortunately taken to calling it, is just one incredibly small facet of the perfect world constructed in video games and all manner of other entertainment products. Everything in any entertainment product's world that does not have a specific reason to be imperfect is perfect. The idea of a fantasy world is for it to be more appealing than reality. There's a reason why, for instance, a third of the people you see in a movie taking place in the United States aren't obese.

I think objectification has always been the wrong word to describe it. It's simply exploitation. And exploitation has always been a staple in media.

Is it wrong? I guess. Is it going to change overnight? No.

Males are the target demographic. Pure and simple. Companies really shouldn't be obligated to make a change to a game in order to please a small percentage of its users.

"But it's wrong"

It's not that black and white. Why can't there be dumb hot chicks in video games? There's dumb hot chicks everywhere else in every other facet of life.

We are still the target demographic and we still like to stare at hot chicks.

"Well staring at hot dumb chicks is wrong and needs to go away"

Well, it's a part of our culture. I know that the new wave of change is focusing on everyone being equal in every way, so maybe we will be able to take down 'men looking at unrealistic depictions of women,' but maybe it's not such a big deal in the first place. Maybe it isn't so wrong.

Hank said
Sex sells. Women will always be objectified in some entertainment products. Guys will keep buying them. Nothing to be done.EDIT: Besides, guys are constantly sexually objectified in videogames as well. Practically every single male protagonist in action games is a buff, good looking overly intimidating and highly masculine guy. It works both ways.

When a female fanfiction author creates a flawless author avatar that their favorite canon revolves around, and goes on for hours about how gorgeous and talented she is, that isn't fanservice for guys. It's a fantasy for the author. Or, with published media, for the audience they want.

Indulgent personal fantasies are, foremost, making "yourself" awesome, and everything else is a symptom or "proof" of it. That can include being flawless or near flawless, ridiculously skilled at a shitton of things, and implausibly important to anything that matters in the universe (either because of skills, or because "you're" the Chosen One). No one wants to project onto a weak, chronic leprosy victim that can't shoot for shit (in an FPS) or do anything relevant or useful.

Games do that all the time. It's hard to find a game that doesn't make the player character excessively important to solve a huge conflict, or unique and special, or gives constant pep talks/compliments for every one thing accomplished. It almost gets condescending when you notice it enough.

If the guys were put in erotic positions and clothing all the time, or fawned over an idealized female character we're supposed to relate with, yeah, that'd be fanservice. Just looking badass, though, is service to being badass.

Awson said I think objectification has always been the wrong word to describe it. It's simply exploitation. And exploitation has always been a stable in media.

Is it wrong? I guess. Is it going to change overnight? No.

Males are the target demographic. Pure and simple. Companies really shouldn't be obligated to make a change to a game in order to please a small percentage of its users.

"But it's wrong"

It's not that black and white. Why can't there be dumb hot chicks in video games? There's dumb hot chicks everywhere else in every other facet of life.

We are still the target demographic and we still like to stare at hot chicks.

"Well staring at hot dumb chicks is wrong and needs to go away"

Well, it's a part of our culture. I know that the new wave of change is focusing on everyone being equal in every way, so maybe we will be able to take down 'men looking at unrealistic depictions of women,' but maybe it's not such a big deal in the first place. Maybe it isn't so wrong.

Why does she have to be dumb? I object to this more than the measurements only attainable through plastic surgery. I'm not a huge gamer, but I've seen enough dumbing down of female characters. The last Tomb Raider (speaking of objectification) was the last straw for me. I understand it was a reboot to where Lara Croft was younger but they took a character who was uniquely strong, smart, and deadly and turned her into a simpering teenager. /rant

idlehands said
Why does she have to be dumb? I object to this more than the measurements only attainable through plastic surgery. I'm not a huge gamer, but I've seen enough dumbing down of female characters. The last Tomb Raider (speaking of objectification) was the last straw for me. I understand it was a reboot to where Lara Croft was younger but they took a character who was uniquely strong, smart, and deadly and turned her into a simpering teenager. /rant

I described them as dumb because that's the usual combo. I don't actually agree with the dumbed-down female aspect of things. I imagine that whole thing is half by design, and half the cause of shitty writers.

Something to do with men wanting to feel intellectually superior to women. That's why it started, but I think it hasn't gone away yet because some men don't see it as anything like that. It's either "funny" or "Just the way it is."

@Beta, gtfo with that goofy shit.

@Awson

I'm certain that's true, that male writing the game's story ultimately will make the male the hero who saves the day with both his brains and brawn. Maybe there needs to be more female developers and story writers

No, Idle, you're just delusional. She's probably not the strong, independent womyn you were expecting her to be for exactly the reason you first expected: she was inexperienced.

Nex said No, Idle, you're just delusional. She's probably not the strong, independent womyn you were expecting her to be for exactly the reason you first expected: she was inexperienced.

That's why I said I KNOW IT WAS A REBOOT.

I dislike taking an established, strong female character and changing her into a teary eyed kid.