Of course I'll follow you to the ends of the earth....(not really) LOL but this does intrigue.

I do need to ask how everyone feels about magic. I'm not a 100% in favor, but if it's subtle, I am not 100% opposed either. Reason for bringing it up is that I got asked about it, and I wasn't able to pass judgement entirely on my own. So, I decided to ask here. Anyone that can give me some invoice?

@ulsterwarrior

Well, at the moment my main issue is both finding pictures (I am picky for pictures) and writing down my thoughts. I think I will manage but if you have any suggestions at the moment do not be fearful to post them or PM them to me. I am always willing to listen.

I will keep that in mind. Anything in particular you'd like for me to know, for me to start brainstorming, or no?

Well, I've got the North and the Sultanate pretty much figured out. But I haven't really given much thought to what could be east and west.

Very interested in this as well.

Good to have you. Nice avatar!

Thanks!

I do need to ask how everyone feels about magic. I'm not a 100% in favor, but if it's subtle, I am not 100% opposed either. Reason for bringing it up is that I got asked about it, and I wasn't able to pass judgement entirely on my own. So, I decided to ask here. Anyone that can give me some invoice?

I'm with you, and kind of lean towards the more subtle-end of systems when magic is involved. Though personally, I've always liked it when magic serves a practical purpose as well. I guess the example I'd throw out would harken back to my ol' Totem days, which I'm gonna link in a second, once I go dig it up. God rest its soul.

EDIT: Found it. Something akin to what we had in that has always been my favorite type of system.

I prefer 'pretend' magic. Where in a witch says she knows magic, and reads your hand. In reality she's just saying the stuff everyone wants to hear, i.e 'you will be meeting a rich man soon.' This doesn't mean jackshit ofcourse because the same man might kick her in the ass for not getting out of her way, but she still met him.

Or perhaps something like scaring a man or mob by changing the colour of fire, simply throwing in some herbs or a concocted bottle of spirits and whazam! Blue fire. Fear me, mortals! ''Ooh, magic!'' But in reality it's science.

There is always a lot to say about this topic which is why I love talking about it :)
I say let's try and find a middle ground. I also prefer the pretend magic if I'm honest, but if you add a hint of mystery to that, kind of like the "true" secrets of the craft known only by the ones initiated or taught. The secret is the source of the magic but it is just that, a secret. So nobody really knows if it is actually real, all they know is that it works, pretend or not. The mechanic I see behind this is the power of belief. By believing something works you're making it happen, much like a self fulfilling prophecy which fits perfectly into this kind of idea. Of course there will always be the unexplainable events and feats of magic which keep you wondering, always guessing, asking yourself if there really is such a thing as magic.

I imagine a practitioner of magic would be viewed the same as a brewer of poisons. Witches and Sorcerers are able to brew potions, speak to birds and rats, and bend promises into curses. Magic is all in names and words, agreements and sacrifice. It is not a proper thing to do. People are afraid of what they don't understand.

The spells and rituals etc would be more subtle and toned down. Instead of fire balls raining from the sky there would be scrying through a bowl of water or any other fortune telling method. It could also include creating protective amulets, curses, attracting wealth, love spells, healing. I also think magic and religion could be a separate thing. One who practices magic doesn't necessarily has to be religious and vice versa.

I can get behind some of that except the healing. I think it should be something, if we want it, but if we do have it, it should be somewhat untraceable. Was it just luck that did this, or was it magic?

Well I vote to include magic but in the way you've described, a kind of mysterious pretense something akin to supersition.

Right! I'll wait for some more feedback before deciding.

For now I have finished the locations, just gotta work on the religions, important characters and noteworthy orders/organisations (think an order of knights). After that I can probably finish up the OOC and post it.

If anyone wants to suggest stuff feel free to do it now or overnight so I can see it tomorrow. :D

Personally, if magic is to be included, then I vote that it be:

A) Extremely subtle and difficult to pin down, and...

B) Only found in the hands of NPCs.

That way you (@Partisan) can include Grimm's Fairy Tales, Slavic and Central Asian folklore and superstition, and that type of stuff in the story, and the PCs are left to wonder how much of it's legit and how much of is just them letting their nerves get to them.

@Centimane

I'd go with A, but not B. Thats just a tease. If PCs can't have it then you shouldn't have it at all.

Has anyone read the Kingkiller Chronicles? The magick in that series is interesting in that MANY people don't know it and the ones that do find it hard to use. Its only taught at the University and low level sympathy (magick) is mostly used for practical things (forever burning lamps, different colored fire, etc). Not saying that we have to use that exact system because its rather complicated... but I think its a good example.

I agree with everybody. I think magic should be a much more subtle, near non-existent thing. I like the whole idea of its pretend-magic, that it's just someone making you think that they can do it. Maybe, once there was magic, the legit, "holy-crap, how did you just do that" kind, but it has been lost to the ages. Then again, we don't really have to go that way as this seems to be more of a low-fantasy RP. As for the religion and orders and stuff, @Partisan, you want to PM what you had in idea for religions? One of the orders that you want could be a Templar-type order, but I need more information about the religions. I kinda want to do a Children of the Light type group from Robert's Jordan Wheel of Time, but don't really have to. That's just my suggestion.

The only reason I slapped 'fantasy' on the labels was because it was a nonexistant universe with nonexistant countries. You'll find many things are based upon real life things and as such, I prefer things to stay relatively realistic.

So that's why I am not debating what kind of magic we want, but if we want it at all.

Also, I am thinking, should I upload the finished location stuff in here, or should I simply wait for the OOC? I don't wanna PM just 1 person for it.

I kinda want to do a Children of the Light type group from Robert's Jordan Wheel of Time, but don't really have to.

Yes

@innertt I've only read The Name of the Wind, but I agree, the system in that series is interesting.

Brandon Sanderson is another author who does a great job of making interesting magic systems in fantasy, but I think his are all a little too much for what we've been talking about.

But yeah, I like where this is going. Really subtle and mysterious.

I would like to see some magic in this, nothing world shattering like hurling lightning bolts or summoning hordes of undead to attack the local pigfarmer. But something subtle and hidden. Maybe spells that are illusionary and are more akin to tricks and sleight of hand that a few good street performers could replicate.

On the other end of this there has to be the medicinial herbology and poultices etc, would they not in there own way be low forms of magic. Before Science was named thus, this was how a lot of people made do with nettle teas and things like that.

Or there could be another option in terms of enchanted items, magic has been lost from the world but still exists in a few (very rare) artifacts of the gods (god). These could be holy items or weapons and armour. Just a suggestion.

Hope this is in some way helpful

I'm confused about where the debate is...

I think this 'subtle' magic is impossible to keep out of the RP. If someone wanted to be a witch of sorts and read palms and brew potions, nothing is stopping her. The only thing is that her potions won't make someone turn into a frog. She can't see the future exactly nor can she read minds or people's past. They can, however, make someone sick (poison) or maybe help them recover from illness (hello penicillin). She can make things disappear and reappear with slight of hand and such. In fact, I read tarrot in real life. I know how it works and if it can make people believe its real in real life, well, it should work in this world.

So, the only thing that is being debated is if things that do NOT work in this world will work in the role play. It seems that most people are against this though... No throwing fire balls or calling lightning. Soooo again, where is the debate?