Hey folks! I'm hoping to get a good fantasy story going here - but I'd like to use real-world settings to do it! After all, if all our most compelling fantasies are inspired from real life, isn't it all the more fun to distort history?

I'm not going to be a stickler for historical accuracy, not terribly, for two reasons: One, I don't even qualify as an armchair historian and specifics are likely going to come from frequent google searches. You know how it is! Two: It's a -fantasy- game, and sometimes things are more fun if you just say... "What if?".

That said, we need an exact setting! I'm considering sticking the players into the Abbasid Caliphate, possibly during the Siege of Constantinople. Another appealing place could be Jerusalem during the first crusade. The fall and massacre of the city could be an interesting bit to play, and maybe it offers more potential than the siege of Constantinople, which was never actually conquered.

If you're in the mood for something a little different with Constantinople involved, we could set up for the capture of the city by the Ottoman Empore (Who would rename it Istanbul and declare it the capitol of the Empire) and subsequent dissolution of the Byzantine Empire. Or maybe that's not quite how things happen? Maybe a turn in fortunes that allows Byzantium to seize the power they had lost after the schism of Rome?
Either way could be equally compelling.

The mongol invasion could be intriguing too..!



Picking a setting will be great and all, but what about the rest of the RP? Well, we need a few basics:

*I do not think that "two sides working against each other" will work for this RP. I'd prefer if we generally designed our characters to work as a party.

*The story can focus heavily on the setting and events of the period or it can be used as a background to map up a geographical and political scene for us to play in. We can decide when we've gathered some interest!

*We can play 'eastern' or 'western'. I will say that my character is going to be from the Arabic faction of the day, but it's possible that people of mixed background will make up the group.

*Get creative! Remember: this may be based on the real world, but it's still fantasy. Consider mythological elements fair game, and I'd love to see era-inspired of magic, divination, mathematics, and medicine! But I won't be a stickler about it, because I recognize that few of us are going to have direct experience with Arabic culture and it's hard to completely change your mindset. Sometimes traditional modern fantasy is simply more fun, and that's just fine to mix bits of that in too!

My own character will probably be violating the era-appropriate endorsement by throwing out a thoroughly western interpretation of a dragon - my own Marduk... but that's okay. Guidelines, people! We're still stuck in the concept stage anyway.
Yes, I will be modifying my sweet Marduk to fit into the setting of choice.
Yes, dragons are a thing! Be whatever you like~ although I would prefer if the party is not entirely made up of monstrous or demi-human characters.

So what do you think, folks? Thoughts, ideas? Interested at all?

Sounds interesting.

Surviving the first Crusade and escaping Jerusalem alive to perhaps conquer it back later would be VERY interesting, I think!

I have one friend in Skype who is considering registering and joining us - he is most interested in Constantinople! After some discussion with him I think we can discard the notion of a mongol invasion; it's too complicated, too many points of conflict, and as an antagonistic party its reach is far too vast while it has no real base of operations.

I do like the idea of trying to escape from Jerusalem (or Constantinople for that matter, depending on who wants what). Conquering it back is definitely something we could look at doing, situation permitting~

An escape in a situation like that could definitely help develop characters personalities and relations at the beginning, and the interactions on how to take it back would be interesting I think. Seems a bit more of an action-y way to start off things than I'm used to, but I wouldn't mind it either!

Whatever you may end up choosing, you have my interest. Now to leave some time for some basic research ^-^'!

I'm definitely interested, especially in a Byzantine-centric scenario- if only because I want to play a Varangian.

Heh. Tried to respond earlier, but the guild went down for a few minutes! Oh well.

Anyway, I'm glad to see so much interest!

I'll keep that in mind! Although to be fair, Jim, all of the proposed campaigns involve heavy Byzantine influence? After all, even if we chose Jerusalem, the first crusade was really little more than Europe uniting behind Byzantium to prevent their conquest by the Seljuk Turks. Before arriving at Jerusalem, the armies that made it into the middle-east also captured Nicaea, Edessa, and Antioch - all of which were handed over to Alexius of Byzantium!

I draw that point only to illustrate that you can get in on the Byzantine action whichever way we go. However, I don't know anything about Varangians! I'll do some googling when I get home. :3

I will have a setting chosen by the end of the night. I can try and get the OOC up, but no promises. Tomorrow is a very busy day, so also no promises, but I'll try to find the time if I haven't got it tonight!

Marduk said Although to be fair, Jim, all of the proposed campaigns involve heavy Byzantine influence? After all, even if we chose Jerusalem, the first crusade was really little more than Europe uniting behind Byzantium to prevent their conquest by the Seljuk Turks. Before arriving at Jerusalem, the armies that made it into the middle-east also captured Nicaea, Edessa, and Antioch - all of which were handed over to Alexius of Byzantium! I draw that point only to illustrate that you can get in on the Byzantine action whichever way we go. However, I don't know anything about Varangians! I'll do some googling when I get home. :3

Excellent.

But (And I hate to nitpick) only Nicaea was returned to Byzantine control. Both Edessa and Antioch remained in Latin hands.

Oh! Right. See what I get for acquiring my information through a brief google search before posting? Feel free to correct me if I'm taking the wrong information and running with it. :P.

Like I said. I'm no history buff!

I'm horrible with actual history, but I love the idea of an escape scene to start the setting. Characters would have to work together to survive, but not be in as much danger as a battle of sorts.

As for what Jim said, it sounds like more others are willing to go with Jerusalem but I'd be willing to support a different starting setting if others didn't mind it either.

Only Jim and Juliet have actually professed an opinion about our setting, Pearion!

I guess it's important to detail a few things about these different settings~

Constantinople: Year 1453.
Aggressor: Seljuk Turks (Ottoman Empire) - specifically Sultan Mehmed IIl. Siege was ~53 days long, they had canons, bombs, and a navy during the assault. Constantinople itself was in severe decline. The black plague had swept through the city 100 years before, in 1204 a crusade saw the city sacked and conquered (control shifted to the Latin Empire). Population plummeted from ~400,000 to about ~35,000 by the time Nicaean Emperor Michael VIII Palaeologus recaptured the city half a century later in 1261.
The city's population was only ~70,000 in 1453 when Memed III conquered it for the Ottoman Empire. About 10,000 of them were soldiers.
Mehmed on the other hand had 80-120 thousand soldiers
The city was a shadow of its former glory when it was conquered!

We could play a few hundred years earlier during the Abbasid Empire's siege but they never actually captured the city, which would pretty much just mean we were stuck in Constantinople with no way to get out until the siege lifted. Which I mean, we could do~ but it's looking like we're going with a "flee the city" type thing?

Jerusalem: Year 1099.
Aggressor: A rather eclectic group. I'll need to do more research about their demographics, but basically, the European crusaders. Jerusalem had been in Muslim hands since roughly 600 AD. The attacking army is estimated to have been only around 13,000 men, and their low supplied forced them to attack the city rather than wait out an extended siege. The defending army was only ~3,000 strong. At the time Jerusalem was in Egyptian hands, as it had been captured from the Seljuk Turks one year earlier in preparation for the coming invasion... for some reason.

After the conquest of Jerusalem, the "Franj" (literally 'Frankish', technically 'European') invaders enacted a brutal slaughter on the populace. Soon after they defeated an Egyptian relief army.
If you guys are wanting to recapture the city, as was suggested earlier, that would actually provide a good opportunity to do it. There's already an army on the march, after all!

Uhm... other details and stuff. Relatively lazy research given the hour and that I don't particularly feel the urge to research two totally different time periods, only to wind up using one.

I would put my vote for the Jerusalem crusade in that case.

After writing all that up I am inclined to agree, frankly. Constantinople loses some of its glamour when you consider it has been reduced to less than 20% of its former populace and has generally just had a really bad run of luck for the last three hundred years.

So with two of three (or four?) potential players and myself leaning towards Jerusalem, I'm going to have to say that's going to be the setting of our game! I will try to get an OOC up sometime tomorrow. P:

I'm potentially interested if my current IC doesn't take off.

I'll check back with you when I get the OOC up if I haven't heard back. :)

I'm definitely interested.

Also if you need a historical advisor I'm a university student of history (currently in my third year) and I've studied the Crusades (both from European, Arabic and Byzantine perspectives) fairly extensively... I also have a shelf dedicated to the subject (random note: Thomas Asbridge is a fantastic source for the Crusades - it's accessible but very detail heavy so be warned!)

As for the setting I'm up for Jerusalem for two reasons: It's more interesting as a period of history as there's a lot going on at the time on both sides (the fall of Byzantium in 1453 was more the epilogue of the Crusades rather than an actual chapter in it), there are some fantastically interesting figures in the period and, most importantly for me, I know more about it >.<.

(Oh, also, about the demographic of the First Crusade: There was the People's Crusade beforehand which was made of peasants which was slaughtered; a few of these joined the actual First Crusade and they were generally from France (specifically Southern) while the nobles were largely from France (Provence, Toulouse and a few others like Godfrey de Bouillon) with a smattering of Italians (Bohemond of Taranto, for example who stole Antioch)).

PS: I won't be a stickler for historical fact - but if it's wanted I'm here.

Oh, fantastic! Welcome aboard, Jinxer. I'm sure your experience with the subject matter will prove quite helpful. :D

Oh, and if everyone who has expressed interest does in fact make it to the RP itself (This has in my experience, however, rarely been the case~), then I don't think we can take any more players after Jinx. After all, these things do tend to get rather unwieldy with too many participants; turns take too long, people lose interest waiting for a chance to post.

If anyone else is still interested though, feel free to say so and I'll drop a line if we need more people!