@Raddum
I don't know if we want to keep up this 'put our responses in hiders' thing, but I'll do it again and let you decide to do it or not depending on whether you've got responses to give after that.

Well yeah, ideally I wanted everyone and Kain to have their memories gone like in Dissidia. I guess parallel universes it is then.

I think there's two major issues with following too closely with how Dissidia handled things.

Firstly, from a role-play perspective I think being too heavily tied down to Dissidia's premise could actually significantly stifle creativity, which would subsequently make the role-play less interesting for everyone. Dissidia has more or less done everything it could explore with its concepts already, which is probably why the new Dissidia game is a reboot (to the best of my knowledge, Cosmos and Chaos aren't even a part of it yet and whatever plot the PS4 version has could have nothing to do with the rest of the series).

I always thought one of the best ideas about Dissidia was that it allowed characters and concepts from the various worlds to be played around with due to coming in contact with each other, but sadly they didn't seem to take enough advantage of that in the games. The Final Fantasy series has always had a multiverse (which is why I believe all my ideas are within the boundaries of the franchise's lore), with the fact that the Gilgamesh in every game so far is the same Gilgamesh each time being one example of this, so Dissidia seemed like the ideal place to explore that.

The reason I decided to register The Emperor first was to confirm how on board you were with interesting and creative ways of playing with the premise of Dissidia, to figure out how likely this role-play would be to continually hold my interest. All the characters I've registered so far (including Terra, who was more likely to show up than anyone else from FFVI despite me thinking @Ailyn Evensen would get more from role-playing her than I would -- not that I don't really like Terra, since I do, but my fiancé's personality is more in sync with her) - excluding Exdeath (who I had the idea of using, but didn't plan to use without a counterbalance character) - were planned to come over pretty much from the moment I decided to get involved. I went with The Emperor first to gauge how you felt about all of this.

Secondly, I'm actually rather sceptical about the notion that all the characters in the Dissidia series had lost their memories in the first place. Some of them, for sure, but there's a lot of contradictions and even paradoxes in those games. For example, virtually all of the villains have access to their 'godly' powers through the use of 'EX Mode', despite canonically most of them not having those powers until late into their games and subsequently implying these versions of them are from late into their timelines, or that these versions are completely different to the game incarnations.

Cecil and Golbez realize they're brothers; in fact, Golbez knowing Cecil is his brother is the entire reason he's not loyal to Chaos right from the beginning of the cycles presented in the games. The Emperor is stated to have been just 'a random soldier' throughout all cycles up until Duodecim, and then he basically got sick of being manipulated by Chaos (probably a hint about him being sick of just existing as Satan's puppet) and he started plotting to take over. It fits his character, but the backstory is inconsistent with the game timeline and doesn't simply seem to be a case of amnesia. These are just a few examples, of course.

If you want Kain to not have his memories, I don't see a problem with that since a lot of my characters (heroes in particular) have lost some of their memories. This could still be the same Kain from the universe my Cecil is from, but he simply doesn't remember the things that took place in the game before the cycle pulled them here.

Edit: I rushed my post, since I'd only just got back from shopping, so check the modifications.

@Raddum
I don't know if we want to keep up this 'put our responses in hiders thing', but I'll do it again and let you decide to do it or not depending on whether you've got responses to give after that.

<Snipped quote by Raddum>
'What if' concepts are always interesting so long as they remain in canon, which makes sense in this case due to how unstable Zidane was before his friends pretty much snapped him out of himself. I've been planning on playing with the idea of romance with Terra - whether or not any of the characters present do or don't end up becoming the object of her affections is another story entirely - since it was actually a plot element that was explored frequently with Terra in the game, what with her trying to understand love and asking people about it, feeling it inappropriate for her due to not being 'normal' until it finally cultivated in her acceptance of the concept and building up enough courage to express it (as illustrated in my opening quote for her in the CS). Having someone flirt with her just allows me to explore that more.

I think Gohan probably saw him by now, since he was here; So we can stop the silly hider stuff.

Regardless of Zidane's flirting, he'll end up stopping once his memories return: Or, at least he'd keep his perverted thoughts to himself. While, for the moment, he doesn't remember Garnet; Once he does he'll stop entirely on any possible advances on the female cast due to his devotion to Garnet herself. But that'd require him to remember pretty much everything, so it'd be late into the plot. Which, depending on what happens, could be extremely awkward since his feelings for Garnet will end up being pointed towards Terra herself. But awkward in a good sense, you know? He'd probably end up feeling pretty bad about it once his memory returns; It's impossible to, as of the moment, explain exactly what would happen aside from Zidane feeling like a bit of a scumbag and being extremely apologetic.

I think I understand the whole circling quest comment, but feel free to clarify if you want to avoid possible misconceptions. As for the whole concept of them manipulating him through information about Terra, I probably should ask you to be more specific about what memories or information he does have. Is it just that the name 'Terra' is significant to him, or is there more information? At any rate, I agree with you about the idea of Zidane projecting since it makes a lot of sense and works well. I was imagining Terra projecting a little onto people as well. My biggest reservations with bringing over Kuja stemmed from a lack of counterbalance character (Freya is sort of someone he's indifferent towards) and also due to concerns that my ideas for him would be too similar to what The Emperor will end up doing, so this does open the door for me to be interesting if I get the inspiration for it. You've brought up some of what I could do with it, assuming I find a timeline version of Kuja I want to roll with.

"If you do this, I'll tell you more about this! But to finish telling you about this, you must also do this." And so forth. He'll be curious about what exactly they know; But he isn't going to do a bunch of bullshit for the information. They can tell him, accept monetary payment, or piss off. As far as what he knows, he basically just has flashes of the revelation by Garland; And nothing else to go on but his instincts. He has an idea of what he's capable of; But he'll take a bit to regain the entirety of his skillset, as well. He'll mostly return to being a full-powered Zidane after he manages to enter Trance for the first time; It'll spark his abilities back into his mind, and allow him to use his slightly improved EX-BURST. All that Zidane knows is he was told he was fated to destroy 'Terra'. He doesn't know that Terra is actually a planet from his own world, rather than the woman of the conveniently same name on the opposite side of this current conflict. Once he actually meets Terra he'll question himself, and become uncertain of why he's actually supposed to do it.

I felt sort of at home putting Zidane on Chaos not just because of the ideas I have for him, but also because him and Freya were friends before the rest of the cast; And she's one of the most likely characters to be able to kick his ass for what he's doing. Due to how the groups are split; They might not actually meet for awhile, meaning there's time for Zidane to be on his personal hunt quest before his memory comes back a little; If not only to his days of being a little thieving rat. As for countering Kuja, I agree: There's no good character to oppose him. Freya has plenty of reason to hate him late-game, but she's just one of Zidane's followers to him; Nothing special. All-in-all, it might just be a good idea to leave him out of this cycle. It brings a sort of irony; Kuja always sees himself as 'superior' to Zidane, but Zidane is chosen by Chaos as a Warrior instead. It might just be to spice things up with the lineups, but still a little something to use as an excuse, possibly.

@Raddum
Basically in agreement. Just a few additional comments on my end.

All that Zidane knows is he was told he was fated to destroy 'Terra'. He doesn't know that Terra is actually a planet from his own world, rather than the woman of the conveniently same name on the opposite side of this current conflict. Once he actually meets Terra he'll question himself, and become uncertain of why he's actually supposed to do it.

I don't want to create a hole in this idea, but there's something we definitely need to discuss. To the best of my knowledge, Zidane's home (where he was created) planet is called 'Terra', while the one Garland told him he's destined to destroy (the one where he grew up) is actually called 'Gaia'. We might need to rework his memories slightly, and this is one of the reasons I asked for what he knew.

I felt sort of at home putting Zidane on Chaos not just because of the ideas I have for him, but also because him and Freya were friends before the rest of the cast; And she's one of the most likely characters to be able to kick his ass for what he's doing.

Outside of Zidane's true power as the 'Angel of Death', Freya could be a solid opponent for him, but without significant power boost over the course of this cycle I doubt any of Zidane's party would be a match for him since he's, in theory, more powerful than Kuja once fully matured and even with the present Zidane on their side the party never actually manages to beat Kuja -- both boss fights with Kuja are scripted battles where he wipes them out with Ultima after a skirmish.

All-in-all, it might just be a good idea to leave him out of this cycle. It brings a sort of irony; Kuja always sees himself as 'superior' to Zidane, but Zidane is chosen by Chaos as a Warrior instead. It might just be to spice things up with the lineups, but still a little something to use as an excuse, possibly.

Considering Zidane was actually created to be a replacement for Kuja, it's painfully ironic; however, that almost makes me want to play with it even more if I can come up with an idea. I won't force myself to since you've got Freya counterbalancing Zidane, but I'll consider it.

@Raddum
Basically in agreement. Just a few additional comments on my end.

<Snipped quote by Raddum>
I don't want to create a hole in this idea, but there's something we definitely need to discuss. To the best of my knowledge, Zidane's home (where he was created) planet is called 'Terra', while the one Garland told him he's destined to destroy (the one where he grew up) is actually called 'Gaia'. We might need to rework his memories slightly, and this is one of the reasons I asked for what he knew.

I spent a bit of time reading everything over on the wiki for the sake of not being a completely idiot; And I realized I did have them mixed up. Zidane was intended to be sent as an Angel of Death to incite war to Gaia. For the whole mission of reviving Terrarians with the mixture of their souls, Gaian souls, and the Gaia crystal; Making a new Terra and 'destroying' Gaia. Kuja actually destroys Terra, which I didn't forget, but due to my mix-up have completely fucked up on the two planet names; Which means Zidane's intentions might just need to be altered majorly. since it would actually be more about 'Saving' Terra than destroying her.

Which would actually make him extremely hostile with both Kefka and Mateus; Meaning he might actually need to be a Warrior of Cosmos; Which would mean Freya's removal, as well as me being sent back to the Warrior of Chaos drawing board. But this is my mess up and I need to correct it; Figuring out another Warrior of Chaos shouldn't be too complicated... And, honestly, if it comes down to it one less random Warrior of Chaos isn't going to harm their side anyways; Because most of them are much more powerful anyways.

I spent a bit of time reading everything over on the wiki for the sake of not being a completely idiot; And I realized I did have them mixed up. Zidane was intended to be sent as an Angel of Death to incite war to Gaia. For the whole mission of reviving Terrarians with the mixture of their souls, Gaian souls, and the Gaia crystal; Making a new Terra and 'destroying' Gaia. Kuja actually destroys Terra, which I didn't forget, but due to my mix-up have completely fucked up on the two planet names; Which means Zidane's intentions might just need to be altered majorly. since it would actually be more about 'Saving' Terra than destroying her.

Which would actually make him extremely hostile with both Kefka and Mateus; Meaning he might actually need to be a Warrior of Cosmos; Which would mean Freya's removal, as well as me being sent back to the Warrior of Chaos drawing board. But this is my mess up and I need to correct it; Figuring out another Warrior of Chaos shouldn't be too complicated... And, honestly, if it comes down to it one less random Warrior of Chaos isn't going to harm their side anyways; Because most of them are much more powerful anyways.

Yeah, even though I did say 'to the best of my knowledge' just in case somehow my memory was failing me in my old (not really... sorta) age, I was pretty damn certain that I was right about the names. My attention to detail and memory usually means I'll never miss the tiniest detail, which is why I was able to give my analysis of Dissidia's contradictions to Gohan earlier despite not even playing the games. Essentially, I still remembered everything you just said about FFIX's plot, despite having not played the game in at least a decade and a half, simply because of how my mind works with anything that I care about. I just thought there might be some explanation for why he's after Terra's life, but once I asked and got the reasoning I realized something was up. The deconstructionist in me usually does end up finding plot holes or mistakes pretty quickly, so it's probably good I noticed this before it was too late, yeah?

Whether he's hostile to the Warriors of Chaos or not, it's my personal opinion that which side he's summoned onto should be determined by whether or not he's currently aligned with 'good' or 'evil'. Golbez and Jecht were both 'good guys' technically in Dissidia, but still ended up being summoned by Chaos due to their souls currently being too aligned with the darkness/evil/villains instead of the light/good/heroes. So which side he's summoned on should be determined by how much Garland's words have swayed him to the darkness -- whether he remains loyal to the side he's on is another matter entirely since it's not unheard of for there to be traitors in Dissidia.

There's actually something particularly interesting that I could note about Zidane being present in this cycle which could result in some rather interesting plot concepts, which is the fact that Garland's plan in FFIX is pretty much an exact copy of Zemus' plan in FFIV, meaning that there could be interesting events occurring when FFIX characters encounter FFIV characters -- something else which Dissidia wasted its potential with by not playing into. It could actually be very interesting depending on what happens, but this would require for me to spoil one of the secret characters who has been summoned into this cycle that I'm not revealing, so it's entirely up to you if I mention it and if I do so here or over PM. I'll do my best to not let it spoil the plot I have in mind for Golbez if I bring it up.

Edit: On a side note, I agree that there's nothing wrong with the villains outnumbering the heroes, since I've mentioned this before in the thread -- the heroes are generally weaker than the villains in the Final Fantasy series and need to work in groups due to that.

@Shoryu Magami

>The deconstructionist in me usually does end up finding plot holes or mistakes pretty quickly, so it's probably good I noticed this before it was too late, yeah?

Yes. Very.

The biggest thing about Zidane being a possible traitor is that we have Marche already who might turn out to betray Mateus; But if we keep the same concept of Zidane only having Garland's words to go on, he'd end up on Chaos' side regardless. Except as more of a general opponent to the Warrior's of Cosmos aside from Terra; Which his relationship with her might swing the same way, except without an initial bad impression. It'd also allow Zidane to be a lot more independent in the Warriors of Chaos, mainly due to not having to bargain for information; He finds Terra and tries to protect her from the other Warriors of Chaos. He'd end up fighting them eventually, as well as the Warriors of Cosmos the others sooner or later, especially with groups Terra isn't in; This way I can certainly keep Freya, as well, which would be a relief because I actually like her a lot.

That comparison is really accurate; There's a lot to work with there, I'd be interested in learning more about it! Though I wouldn't want you to have to spoil anything, so we can leave it in the dark for now. I'm certain when it comes up we'll be in agreement regardless; You haven't pitched anything even remotely bad yet, so I trust whatever you decide to do will be entertaining and good for the plot.

@Raddum
We're in agreement with this being the best course of action to allow both Zidane and Freya to be involved. Perhaps to make things more interesting, Freya shouldn't be in the same party as Terra? Just another detail for some thought. On another note, I've got a few comments left to make in response to you.

That comparison is really accurate; There's a lot to work with there, I'd be interested in learning more about it! Though I wouldn't want you to have to spoil anything, so we can leave it in the dark for now. I'm certain when it comes up we'll be in agreement regardless; You haven't pitched anything even remotely bad yet, so I trust whatever you decide to do will be entertaining and good for the plot.

Firstly, I appreciate the compliment. I'm pretty confident I can spoil the character without it revealing which side Golbez is on, but in order to fully take advantage of what this character's presence could bring to the table it might be required to reveal who they are long before I intended to (it wasn't going to be revealed until Golbez reveals his alignment). With this in mind, do you have any opinions on whether or not I go into it? How much of an impact this character has on Zidane is very questionable, so it may or may not be worth mentioning early.

@Raddum
We're in agreement with this being the best course of action to allow both Zidane and Freya to be involved. Perhaps to make things more interesting, Freya shouldn't be in the same party as Terra?

We're still going with Terra/Ritz/Layle yes? I think we should pair Cecil and Freya initially; They are the only two currently without a party, and it keeps us from doubling on the other parties for now.

Firstly, I appreciate the compliment. I'm pretty confident I can spoil the character without it revealing which side Golbez is on, but in order to fully take advantage of what this character's presence could bring to the table it might be required to reveal who they are long before I intended to (it wasn't going to be revealed until Golbez reveals his alignment). With this in mind, do you have any opinions on whether or not I go into it? How much of an impact this character has on Zidane is very questionable, so it may or may not be worth mentioning early.

I simply suggest holding back on it; I personally don't want to know, yet. If Gohan does, you can PM him, I suppose, but for now, I'd prefer to be left in the dark on the topic. Mostly because the surprise will be good fun later down the road.

@Raddum
We're keeping the same party in mind, yeah -- regardless of whether a fourth member joins them or not, those three will be together.

As for the secret, no problem at all. I'll keep it in the dark for the sake of fun, since Gohan won't benefit from knowing. The only reason it would be relevant is that this character could've had some communication with Zidane prior to the reveal of their presence by Golbez, and this discussion could very well have an impact on Zidane, but there's also a chance it wouldn't impact him. The weight of my reveal being interesting is likely more important than a 'maybe' regarding whether revealing it early would contribute anything.

On my end, I'm gonna go complete Zidane now, and possibly work on my 'secret' characters.

Edit: Hopefully @Gohan will do his initial post soon, because I've been wanting to do my own for a while now.

@Shoryu Magami
Regardless, we'll keep Freya and Terra in different parties.

The weight of my reveal being interesting is likely more important than a 'maybe' regarding whether revealing it early would contribute anything.

Agreed.

On my end, I'm gonna go complete Zidane now, and possibly work on my 'secret' characters.

Edit: Hopefully @Gohan will do his initial post soon, because I've been wanting to do my own for a while now.

>complete Zidane

Wait, what? o.O

Whenever the post happens, it happens. We'll see. :p

@Shoryu Magami

Oh no, I'm down with everything really. As for memories I just wanted it for the aspect that, everyone goes through their own character arc in Dissidia. I get you have your own mini-plots and stuff, I just mean that it would be a useful tool for everyone else to just start off as the static character they were early in the game.

To put it to bed, yeah keep spoilers about Golbez a secret. As for Kain, I don't really care what we do, to be honest. If you have a specific idea you want, then I approve, just tell me what you want from Kain and when we roleplay I'll make adjustments.

>complete Zidane

Wait, what? o.O

>Laugh.

I knew I'd slip up and miss a typo eventually. I'll be completing Cecil, and you can expect him to be ready within an hour.

@Gohan

Oh no, I'm down with everything really. As for memories I just wanted it for the aspect that, everyone goes through their own character arc in Dissidia. I get you have your own mini-plots and stuff, I just mean that it would be a useful tool for everyone else to just start off as the static character they were early in the game.

I really do like how on board you are with my creativity, and that goes for Raddum too -- both of you get my thumbs up.

As for the lost memory idea, I agree -- basically, I think characters should have their memories lost due to the dimensional transfer unless those characters were exceptionally powerful or the memories are important for their plot arcs. In the case of Emperor Mateus, he's responsible for the screw ups in this cycle, even if neither god knows that, so it makes sense his memories are there and he's simply biding his time to recover from how much power it took to pretty much sabotage Cosmos and Chaos. Firion in this cycle is actually from the same world as this version of Mateus, but has lost a lot of his memories initially and will need time to recall everything. It does seem to be a common opinion between some of us here that entering 'EX Mode' triggers memories though, if my interpretation of Raddum's comment earlier is accurate.

To put it to bed, yeah keep spoilers about Golbez a secret. As for Kain, I don't really care what we do, to be honest. If you have a specific idea you want, then I approve, just tell me what you want from Kain and when we roleplay I'll make adjustments.

Will do. Rather than revealing 'why' Kain should behave a certain way, I'll simply tell you 'what' I need if a problem comes up. For the most part, if his memories are gone then what part of the timeline he comes from shouldn't impact how you play him at all initially.

Edit: I would've spoiled less about Emperor Mateus as well, but I felt that - given how powerful he is - I needed to at least hint at his true nature in the 'EX Mode' in order to not make it look like I was pulling things out of my ass later on. Either way, you two seemed to have gotten pretty intrigued by what little I did reveal.

<Snipped quote by Raddum>
>Laughs.

I knew I'd slip up and miss a typo eventually. I'll be completing Cecil, and you can expect him to be ready within an hour.

Oh, good.

I don't think any cycle could handle two Zidane's. _{yet 3 mateus' is perfectly okay}

I'm going to bed, for now. Got to get some sleep so I can go to work tomorrow night. x.x

@Shoryu Magami
@Raddum

Alright then sounds good. I read everything and I got it. It's 600 am here, so I'll be going to bed soon. I'm gonna sign off, later.

@Raddum@Gohan
Sleep well, guys.

On my end, Cecil's finished -- take a look whenever.

@Shoryu Magami

Cecil is looking good. No complaints on my end.

@Raddum
Good to know. I'll probably be doing an all-nighter due to yesterday messing up my pattern. Here's hoping this is the last one I need to do in order to get myself back on track, since my workload is getting pretty out of hand. I'll be available if you want to chat about anything, or if you've got ideas to run by me.

I'm also considering introducing a character sheet for a set of 'NPCs' that I've had full intentions of including for a while now. They're powerful/significant enough to possibly deserve a sheet. Beyond that, I'll be working on a few IC/OOC posts on this site to get everything out of the way, and also working on the character sheets for unrevealed characters.

Edit: I'm also - despite our horror story earlier - thinking about changing The Emperor's Zodiark out for a different summon. I've got my reasons, but it mostly translates to it being less fitting for the character than I thought it might be. As I've mentioned a few times, FFXII is at the point where I stopped having the time to play games extensively and simply started building a pile of games I intend to play in detail one day, so I've never encountered Zodiark directly. Saw a video around an hour ago and it's not only significantly smaller than I was expecting, but it's also a darkness elemental. That picture I found is insanely misleading as to what its appearance is actually like.

@Raddum
>Facepalm.

Firstly, is this gonna be a trend in the OOC?

Secondly, if he starts doing this in the IC, I will murder you.

Thirdly, any suggestions for a replacement summon? I'm thinking powerful as fuck celestial entity. The only holy elemental summon I can immediately think of is Alexander, and I think there's far more fitting characters for that summon.

Also, I stuck with the name 'Exdeath' despite thinking - for a few reasons - that his real name was meant to be 'Exodus'.

First Edit: I'm thinking of going with Eden. It's ridiculously powerful and the name fits the 'Heaven' theme.

Second Edit: Zodiark was exchanged for Eden. I've also made the CS for one of my 'secret' characters, which I'll be withholding in PM until the time comes. Considering working on those 'NPCs' I mentioned now.

@Shoryu Magami

As much as I'd love for Kefka to make Terrable puns all the time, I'll hold back as far as the IC is concerned. Expect one to occasionally show up here in the OOC however, because sometimes they make me laugh really hard.

Eden is actually a really good choice; I approve of the change.