TwilightDragon said
Um, that was what I forgot. HDWM is triggered by either pills (which Basil had, and I doubt many more people do) or via a Bullet.

Basils family makes the pills

I didn't know that. o_o

Anyway, I'm posting the beginning to the lunch hour.

Woops. Edited a lunch hour thing into mine. It should work fine, but I was posting anyway...

TwilightDragon said
I didn't know that. o_oAnyway, I'm posting the beginning to the lunch hour.

One can enter Hyper Dying Will Mode when one has been hit with the Criticism Shot or having ingested two Dying Will Pills. However, those that are experienced with Hyper Dying Will Mode are able to enter it upon willing it so.

Even if she was experienced, I just doubt it since she's only fifteen years old. I'd feel that it makes more sense if she had the pills or a bullet. It just seems weird that a fifteen year old girl is in charge of the Yakuza...

EDIT: Read her history, but I don't think seven years is enough to master entering HDWM without pills or a bullet. Especially since her mother likely didn't know about it until much later. It took a year, near death experience, and even more training just for Tsuna to use his flames like that. Not to mention even if she was especially good at being a hitman, I just don't think that someone who was on the outside of mafia, brought in, then the head would know completely about flames and be able to train her daughter to that degree.

Maybe she can just be a subordinate? I mean, Tsuna wasn't in charge of the Vongola until he was like... 24... right?

As far as HDWM is concerned it's possible that the Yakuza have developed something that acts similar to Basil's pills but with a drawback, like it only works for a limited time period, or the strain on the body is even greater then normal making it a desperation technique

RainDash said
I just have a problem with a fifteen year old just being able to initiate HDWM on her own, but maybe I missed something in her past that made her able to just enter it.

Though she is older than Tsuna...? She was trained longer than Tsuna too.
In fact, age is hardly revelant at all.

Plus 7 years is longer than one year. A lot longer.

Also consider what universe this is. Children are sucessors of various mafia families.
Your argument is disregarding the entire nature of Katekyo. Not only that, my character isn't in charge of all the Yakuza. Just a family of the Yakuza. Yakuza has an infrastructure all its own. Though, either way, the character was born into it and was appointed her rank through her mother and, eventually, via her own great strength.

You are being very narrow. Like, looking at the scenario far too realistically. Not only that, flames are hardly strictly a Vongola art. Once shown how, flames can be utilized by many different sorts of people from many different walks of life.

I'd like to think that I am thinking in the universe. While the Yakuza have a different sort of infrastructure, The mom rising to power and automatically knowing about the flames is something I'm not sure about. Even though she may have been smart, it's pretty clear that at this point in the anime for me, regular people don't have access to make their flames just appear. Also. If you carefully study the culture surrounding the anime (also the yakuza), as well as pay close attention to how many of each gender are in the mafia, you'll see that not a lot of females actually are in the mafia/yakuza.

Applying this logic, that means that having two women rise to power is highly unlikely. No if ands or buts. I don't care that she's older than Tsuna, I care that these events are getting more and more unlikely.

Then there's the Mom's story. I can get that she's just a prostitute who can be smart. However, she had seven years to learn how to work the Yakuza, how the flames work, and get a suitable tutor for her daughter. Outside if smarts, I really don't see the sort of aggression that would be needed to hold the Yakuza under her thumb. (See: O-Ren Ishii from Kill Bill.) The Mom didn't do anything except just inherit the role, whereas I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen.

Where would Yakuza get access to mafia bullets and pills? How could she train without these? Who trained her to be able to just entered HDWM?

She's a cool character, but the 'unlikelies' keep piling up here…

Even though she may have been smart, it's pretty clear that at this point in the anime for me, regular people don't have access to make their flames just appear.

This doesn't really fit for two reasons.
The main one is that my character is not a regular person. She is a Yakuza. There are various individuals apart of the various mafia and are able to utilize flames and, as demonstrated in teh show, just about everyone is capable of manipulating flames and flame based box weapons. Even if regular people don't know of flames you cannot include all mafia families in that generalization, becuase there is not enough information for you to deduce that.

The second reason would be that there are far too many varieties of flames for you to assume that only the main cast are able to utilize flames. Bermuda's Flame of Night,Xanxus' Flame of Warth and Enzo's Earth Flames are examples of flame variants selective to certain families of mafia. (According to the wikia too, Xanxus' mother took him to the Vongola upon discovering that he had flames. Thus, ordinary people do know of the flames) It has been shown in the show that there are different sorts of Mafia families out there, even going as far to mentioning an American Mafia. And you don't have enough information to state that these other mafia cannot use flames. Nor can you say that they do not know about flames, despite that flames have been apart of the Vongola family, the most powerful Mafia, for generations. How would the rival families and fellow mafia not know that the Vongola has been using flames for decades to fight with? That doesn't even make sense, nor is is applicable to my character, because you cannot say what my character, or even the whole of the Yakuza in this universe, knows and does not know.

So that entire statement is, again, too narrow to really apply here. If it had more basis I'd understand, but probably and maybe hardly goes so far.

Also. If you carefully study the culture surrounding the anime (also the yakuza), as well as pay close attention to how many of each gender are in the mafia, you'll see that not a lot of females actually are in the mafia/yakuza.

Yet another probably and maybe.
Stating that females usually hold no power or say or authority does not mean that the situation and opportunity that was presented to my character is impossible. Saying usually females are under the dominant male doesn't mean that, as it has presented itself in history over and over, that a woman couldn't rise to power through charisma and intellect alone. Not only that, there is a factual example of a woman that did this very thing and became a Oyabun of the Yakuza's largest family. Her name was Kazuo Taoka.

I don't care that she's older than Tsuna, I care that these events are getting more and more unlikely.

Yet another thing that bothered me.
So you don't think that it make sense that she learned and was trained to learn what Tsuna learned in like 8 months to a year and a half...In 7 years? Chronologically and reasonably, it makes perfect sense. If you were to train anything, any part of your body or on any subject in school, for 7 years you would be beyond just adequately proficient. She practiced and developed her skills over time instead of through crazy emotional battle after crazy emotional battle. I didn't go into detail explaining what sort of training she underwent or how she learned to tap into her Dying Will Flames. I felt that it would overstretch the bio and provide a lot of unnecessary, inconsequential details that wouldn't really bring anything to the character. She was trained for 7 years. That's a lot of history to throw down and I'm not about making a bio longer than I feel it absolutely needs to be, nor do I believe that if I honestly went into great detail about that history would it honestly give you anything other than my own original designs. So asking for the training is pointless and doesn't really make sense to ask for, but I could draft what I had in mind in the bio.

Then there's the Mom's story. I can get that she's just a prostitute who can be smart. However, she had seven years to learn how to work the Yakuza, how the flames work, and get a suitable tutor for her daughter. Outside if smarts, I really don't see the sort of aggression that would be needed to hold the Yakuza under her thumb. (See: O-Ren Ishii from Kill Bill.) The Mom didn't do anything except just inherit the role, whereas I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen.

Firstly, I didn't go into detail about her mother's bio, whom doesn't even have a name, because I was writing Shiho's bio. I never intended on detailing just how her mother rose to power nor her mother's upbringing or how her mother died. That is, again, fluff that isn't needed in the bio. Though, I did say, verbatim: "Through words, coercion and rallying allies she managed to eradicate each and every competitor that she had and promoted her daughter, not herself, as the head of the family." That actually DOES answer your question. I also direct you to Kazuo Taoka yet again, which makes the argument you are stating all the weaker. Because it CAN happen that a female can rule over the Yakuza for a time in the event of the death of a husband and the presentation of a powerful, wise leader with the influence to maintain her position. Though, I shouldn't even really have to go into that detail in order to build the character. If I decided that my character's mother was phenomenal and smart enough to become a Oyabun then that is apart of the history. That's like making a female President of China or the Female leader of all the Crypts of LA. It's a unique dynamic that the character's achieved that makes them unique and special and different than the others that came before them. It's an original idea that I drafted that was weird and shocking, though not impossible. You are looking at things from a very narrow point of view assuming that a female leader is impossible or that there is no other way to unlock dying will.

Where would Yakuza get access to mafia bullets and pills? How could she train without these? Who trained her to be able to just entered HDWM?

I never said she used pills or mafia bullets. However, being a part of the Yakuza, she honestly wouldn't have any difficultly locating them. Yakuza is the largest crime syndicate in the entire world. Whether by drug laundering or coercion or even outright theft, getting a hold of special bullets and special pills or forcing someone to produce some is not impossible. There's no reason that the Yakuza wouldn't be able to get their hands on them, but, again, I never said she relied on them. I said she was trained to initiate the HDWM her own. I didn't detail teh training process or how she went about developing it or who showed her how, etc. However, she did endure 7 years worth of training which, again, is more than Tsuna and comparable to Xanxus, thus her development was of a moderate and reasonable time. I haven't been asked by anyone to detail the 7 years of training, instead of leaving it open ended, but if I need too then I might as well. I don't really mind. It's just a lot of fluff that wasn't necessary to post the character. Either way, whether I describe it in detail or not, she was trained for 7 years. You knowing how won't really make that much of a difference to anything.

I honestly don't see any unlikely.
Just a lot of assumptions, to be frank.

I disappear for half a day and jesus christ defensive people

I'm gonna go through everything before I have my input.

I think a flaw in my reasoning is that I haven't seen all of it yet and maybe I'm not the most educated in flames, but something just seems… off is all. Someone in charge of the RP should critique this further, as I was only using some basic logic.

I won't argue this any further since you've clearly thought this out and done some research behind it. Well done, by the way.

(Also, please please refrain from spoilers! I know it needed to be said, just don't spoil anything else for me yet. I've reached episode fifty five, but that doesn't mean I don't know what kind of flames Xanxus has yet…)

Rain even my character has a unique flame, the flame of Peace.

Giant wall of texts.

Yeah, please, guys, refrain from spoilers? I'm on 128 lol... and I haven't begun to read the manga.

We just don't want your character to be overpowered, though. You can be creative, but just don't over do it lol.

*Cough*

RainDash said
I think a flaw in my reasoning is that I haven't seen all of it yet and maybe I'm not the most educated in flames…

*cough*

Edited last post.

Oh Rain~

I read the manga like a boss man. I finished it!
Though I mean, you can't really tell me not to bring up spoilers when you say something like "hasn't happened in the anime". Then I want to talk about the anime and manga :0

But anyway, if you feel it doesn't make sense still feel free to PM me, Rain.
lol. I'll do my best to avoid spoilers through the discussion.

Also, Twilight, do you think the character is still overpowered?

Well, dunno if my opinion is particularly wanted since it might make the situation more complex than it is, but I might as well put my two cents in as someone who's read both the manga and watched the anime.

Don't see a problem with the rest of the CS, 'cept for the Flames stuff.

Reborn mentioned that other Families have begun to develop bootleg DW Bullets, and that was only a week after the Future Arc. This is 20 years. That, plus the 7 year training bit, is enough justification I'd think. Now if she were getting Dying Will Mode without Bullets/Pills, then I'd have a problem. Though I do dislike having two more custom Flame types with no justification apart from having a special weapon with special properties. Especially since before Decimo, only the Vongola had the capacity to use Flames (not counting Flames of Wrath or Mist Flames, which apparently anyone can use without having a ring or special weapon). Though if it had just been considered a fancy-ass katana before Flames came along and they discovered it's capabilities, then I might budge a little.

Also, Sun Flames don't sharpen, Lightning does.

...Might give my opinion on whether it's OP or not, but after I go for dinner.

Anyone wanna interact with my characters?

You should also include the Flames of Night and the Earth Flames. Those are another Non-Vongola flame power. And again, as I previously stated, during "that arc" in which flame weapons were mass distributed everyone had the ability to call upon their own flames. The fact that everyone has the potiental to utilize flame like abilities means that flames are not strictly for the Vongola.

Well, you also have to consider that DW Bullets exist in various different types. There's the one Makkuro uses and that other depressed guy, etc. DW bullets are hardly strict to any one family.

Also, I intended for her to be able to go into HDWM without bullets or pills. It is cannonically possible, as it has been done already. I intended for my Mafia boss character, which is totally different than just your regular associate or follower, to be able to willingly initiate the HDWM.

As for flames I created my own flames :0
As far as I can tell, custom flames are not barred. Another thing I brought up was that you cannot say for sure if other mafia families cannot use flames. There is evidence to the contary, though there isn't evidence that is a fact in the universe. Vongola do use the 7 flames, yes, however there have been plenty of families that can use their own variant of flames.

Though, if the invented flames are a problem I could remove them no problem. I kinda hope that I can keep the character design as it is, but if everyone is uncomfortable with the character I have no problem making adjustments.