The Sisters were established in M36. Neither Vedius nor Xepherial will know wtf they are. lol

I love being a goddamn old fogy.

<Snipped quote by Necroes>

Okay, with all due respect, it is things like this that make me want to GM your character out of existence. He appears to have near-infinite power(s), apparently from all over the goddamn spectrum of psychic powers, is also capable of close-quarter fighting because of both being an Ork AND due to his force weapon.

The very fact that you can't find a way to NOT paste two Astartes - the Emperor's most capable warriors - without flooding a place with genestealers should really give you some indication that you've gone too far.

Feel free to write a rebuttle, in fact I would be happy if you did, as to why I shouldn't just plant the entire Preceptory of Sororitas right on his head.

I asked you what source we're using. For exactly this reason, I asked you what we're using as the core reference for this campaign.

In 40k the table top game, space marines are Pansies. They're pushovers that will reliably be killed by the most basic ork weirdboy power. A shot from a hot-shot lasgun will punch through their armor, and has a pretty good chance to just take him out of combat. In addition, on the table, force weapons are standard-issue psyker wargear. Anything that outranks a wyverian psyker has one.

As for why I can't think of any solution that doesn't result in the death of two marines... That would be because any offensive power I have as a basic reference for a frame of scale that would be used against a lightly armored, fairly feeble enemy, would just kill them.

I wasn't the one who allowed a psyker. I'm sorry you were unaware of the power of sorcerer/librarian/weirdboy level psykers. However, nothing I've had Urgrugg do would be outside the realm of completely realistic and even very safe depiction of psyker power, for even a low-level weirdboy.

If you want to kill him, fine. You didn't know what you were giving me access to. Without realizing it, you gave me access to a great deal of power, and threw a piss-ant in front of him that was important to the plot. It's your right as GM to direct the RP as you see fit.

However, make no mistake. I did nothing wrong here. Everything I've said Urgrugg could do, he could do on the table top, all while being considered a less potent combatant than a tech-marine. Your dissatisfaction with him is entirely your own fault, because you underestimated the power of psykers, of any race, and severely overestimated the potency of space marines.

Now, I'm fully able to play Urgrugg as what he is; A very powerful ally, who's easily manipulated and exists as a glass cannon in combat, while being a tank overall. However, that plan only works if people are willing to work with him.

A group that's supposed to be dedicated to chaos, made up 50% by people who notedly Aren't devoted to chaos, does not allow for that possibility. If you're going to get mad at someone for not following the rules, maybe don't stick your foot in your mouth and selectively decide to ignore how half your 'chaos' party is still devoted to their Imperium-loyal faction.

@Necroes reading your characters description i get the feeling you are on the level of a big nob.
Seeing this is an RP, i assume the marines are fluff correct marines and not sissy tabletop game marines.

Meaning a single marine is roughly on par with an ork nob. One must play his cards right, or the other will use their strengths to defeat him.
Being a psyker is a great boon here though.

However, there are two marines. Sure, having a force weapon is a good tool, but there is no certainty in Urgrugg defeating the marines.
In an one-on-one, sure, he's got very good odds of winning, but two?

I base a lot of the marines power on the game Deathwatch by fantasy flight.
The marines in that are DEADLY!
With some luck, kill a meganob in CQB with a chainsword. Paste orks for sports.
Only ork capable of making a group of marines think twice is a proper warboss.

So looking at all this, why would Urgrugg so easily win over the crusade era marines so easily?
And if he didn't want to kill them, has he no control in how he fights? He could just knock them out, seeing that he's so good at close combat.

I myself is lucky i had begun to dissipate, otherwise i would be dead.
Had the bolt round hit i think i would play it super badass main character mode and survive. But it would mostly be the stereotypical final last word. Perhaps doing something cool.
In a straight up fight, nooo, a marine could pulp my character with his bare hands. And these guys got bolters, CQB weapons and a servo harness.

I'm just wondering why Vedius started firing on me.
I guess i look creepy, but is that enough to warrant killing me?
Dunno. Perhaps he's used to chaos and know the callsigns.

@Necroes I'm not afraid of your ork, but I am curious what you thought you would do with him that would potentially kill us.

@Klomster That's the thing, though. In fluff, the abilities of a single marine vary dramatically. In books, they can be as potent as a single marine taking on entire legions of enemies, to standard foot-note level extras. Yes, any Named marine will usually accomplish amazing feats of skill, but that comes with plot armor. In other games, though, their powers vary even more. Some games depict them as being monsters of combat, being more akin to titans than humans. Others make them out to be just tougher humans.

Which is why the majority of people I know use the table-top game as a basis for determining average abilities. For one, the codexes are simply stated as being the most cannon source of information, until a new codex comes out. For another, they compare averages, not individuals.

@Wraithblade6 The afore-mentioned demolisher cannon shell from his face. That wasn't a joke, that's something psykers are fully capable of doing. It also originates from a point of his choosing, so unless one of the two marines has a null-rod lodged in his cologne, they'd both take a direct hit capable of destroying a land raider. And, I'm assuming, you don't think a space marine is more resilient than one of the imperium's most heavily armored personel carriers. That would just be silly.

@Necroes Well.... There are a few events not in Urgrugg's favor. One, timing. I don't think a shear split second is reasonably long enough for him to conjure up a mass of psychic energy that big. 2. Urgrugg's spent a fair amount of energy already. I *know* psykers have limits. You can't conjure ass-cannons all day. 3. Cover. Certainly there's a fair level of forewarning that even non-psykers could figure out, especially given centuries of experience at war already. How much damage does Urgrugg want to do to the ships around him if the space marines dodge? How about if the two space marines separate? Then Urgrugg could only take out one of them, leaving the other to finish him off. 4. Also, the warp might just tell you to go fuck yourself at any given time you call on it. Urgugg could totally call a soul-devouring fiend into reality and we all die. ...

And I'm not sure that the majority of players know much about the table top game. Most people here that I have met, are novel readers and wiki readers.... and youtubers. We're young, and we don't have money. :P

@Klomster And you got shot at because you're a heretic. Now shut your vox-hole, heretic. (jk)

In conclusion, I do think you should back down on your powers, or at least handle them with less certainty. Don't do game-level interpretation. No player character should be able to take on an army, nor pass through a spacehulk with zero fear. That's just not even near the level of the rest of us. I feel like yes, Urgrugg probably could kill a couple of space marines, I mean they have librarians for a reason, but it shouldn't be no-contest in an rp.

I'm glad JB has stepped in here, because we needed to talk about this. I hope we can all come to an agreement on what Urgrugg's limits are.

@Wraithblade6 All of this coming from the guy in the chaos campaign who's not devoted to chaos...

And, to rebute:
1.) Combat magic is nearly instantaneous. It's like pulling a trigger on a weapon. Another psyker can sense the energy and try to disrupt it, but once it's done it just happens. There would be no point in putting psykers on the field of battle if they couldn't manifest their powers quickly enough to respond to a gun being pointed at them. This applies to all powers equally, regardless of size. The exception is ritual magic, which is explicitly not used in combat for that purpose.
2.) Over the past several hours, he's manifested 5 spells. Yes, psykers are limited. On average, a properly trained librarian can cast two to three spells reliably within the time frame of discharging his bolt pistol in a single burst. He would need to focus himself again, in somewhere around two to three minutes.
The primary limiting factor on what a psyker is capable of is how much warp energy he can control at one time, and how much is on hand. The actual act of manifesting warp powers isn't particularly straining in any physical sense, because none of energy being used comes from them; it all comes from the warp. That of course means that, were we in an area without a great deal of latent warp energy, psykers would be severely hindered. However, we are currently in a place where the warp is literally Bleeding into the Materium. There's plenty of energy on hand, which would give any psyker a sever power boost if they wanted it.
3.) No. Just no. As previously stated, the power manifests instantly. That power in question is a sudden blast of telekinetic energy that would literally detonate immediately between the two of you. No warning, no time to react, no cover to hide behind. And, before you say anything, remember; We are talking about Literal magic. By definition, it doesn't have to follow the laws of physics, let alone adhere to any kind of common sense.
4.) Yes, there exists a chance whenever a psyker manifests a power that it could backlash on him. Such events are uncommon, and experienced psykers rarely have any issue with them. Equally as likely, by contrast, is a phenomena where in the psyker channels too much warp energy, and channels the excess out through his body in the form of sheer power. This gives the psyker the rough equivalent of warp-energy terminator armor.

As for the number of people who play the tabletop game... Well, there's a reason that the company who owns the property is a miniatures company, and not a publisher.
Example: This website has about 72,000 registered users. By comparison, Dakka Dakka-a website dedicated to Warhammer 40,000, specifically to people who play the game and buy and use the miniatures to do so-has a registered user count of well over 100,000. But, of course, it's not like it makes sense that a website dedicated to people who enjoy narratives and roleplaying has primarily heard of a popular property via its roleplaying games and novels... Oh, wait.
Also-I'm in my twenties, and I live on less than 10k US a year. I watch Bruva Alfabusa too. He's funny, but even he openly admits the 90% of the things he depicts as cannon is nothing but horse-shit that's poking fun at older depictions of the world that no longer apply.

As for handling my character; Well, I'm not the one who opened fire on another PC without any provocation whatsoever, with the only justification being that you're distrustful of xenos because you're an imperial, in a Chaos-controlled RP. If you'd have just asked, I could have told you that would be a Bad idea. And it's not like Urgrugg hasn't just murdered people before for exactly the same thing. Between the two of us, I'm the one who's yet to actually do anything wrong.

@Necroes

The forces of chaos are divided. Plus, the title of the thread has a question mark in it. This rp is not about the servants of chaos so much as ambiguous loyalties.

An imperial, particularly a space marine, is going to fire on an ork in the middle of a space hulk. That's logical and justified.

Now it's also justified for a psyker ork to retaliate. Unless you want to have him do something else. Fine by me. But pretty much everyone in this rp is going to leave if you say not only that you can, but can't even avoid, Insta-killing a space marine. We've just kind of had it with you.

So here are your options. Make your psyker power less capable. Ie. Blast the enemy, but it won't kill them in one hit. You should understand what power level is expected of you here. Ask questions if you need. Re-roll a new character. Or quit. Cuz otherwise, this rp is over.

Now, I do play a chaos legion thousand son in another rp, and I can find ways to tone even him down. You can do this.

@Necroes
You should understand what power level is expected of you here.

Exactly. Your ork isn't even in the game as the rest of us which we have already explained to you ruins the RP. He doesnt have to be exactly equal to the rest of us, but in the same ball park would be nice.

Is that seriously what's wrong? Everyone is mad because my character can put out a lot of damage? It's 40k. Everyone has the potential of massive damage output. Hyper-advanced technology does that.

Hand the ogryin a lascannon-he's big enough to wield it like a lasgun-the space marine an eviscerator, and just put the techmarine in the same room as any of the dozens of flavors of Imperial heavy artillery. There, they've all got the ability to open up a landraider like a can of tuna. Don't get upset that someone could kill your character with relative ease. It says nothing about any weakness in the character. It's just a byproduct of the scale of the setting that any number of weapons exist in mass-produced numbers that could just kill any of us. Hell, the tech-marine has a plasma torch strapped to his back that could burn a hole through his armor like it was tissue paper, only to then turn him into an insta-cook turkey dinner.

Psykers aren't the end-all in the 40k universe. They're powerful, sure, but in a setting where Anyone can be. Their benefits are that they're versatile, and don't require technology and gadgets to function. Their negatives are that they require warp energy, are massive targets, and on rare occasions can spontaneously be sucked into the warp, head-first through their own ass.
Urgrugg, specifically, has the benefit of specializing in big, flashy, destructive spells. His negative is that he can't do small-scale at all. He's as dangerous as a tank, but also as subtle as one, all while being barely more resilient than any given human, in the terms of the setting.

I'm ok with being able to be killed by other character. I think we all are. It's not that. It's something else.

@Necroes Cool.
I didn't know your ork was an Alpha level psyker.

Because yes, psykers can manifest power, very powerful power in matter of moments.
But the more powerful the ability, the more powerful the psyker needs to be.

And i for one thinks the "psykers can cast several spells per turn" in the tabletop is a weird new idea they have. Me being a player from the old days of 3-5th edition tabletop.
But the tabletop turn is also a lot longer than a roleplay turn.
And a roleplay turn is a bit complicated to emulate in a play-by-post, since we don't actually use turns.

I'd say the fantasy flight roleplaying game systems would be better to compare to.
There, a turn is usually 1 action, which can be split into 2 half actions.
Attacking with a weapon is usually 1 half action. Aiming is another.

A full action can be firing your weapon on full auto, or reloading a weapon.
So a turn is roughly a couple of seconds. Unlike the tabletop where it is usually 6+ seconds, in the very least.

Psykers, can manifest several powers a turn in the rpg, they can. But not several attacks, and it would have to be quick simple powers.
The demolisher cannon-esque power, sounds a bit tamer than the "Smite" power from deathwatch.
That one takes 1 full action.
People have time to react to that. Hell, people can react to half actions. With dodges and parries.
They only get one dodge a turn, unless they have special talents.

So.
1: Most combat powers, especially powerful ones. Is clearly visible even for non-psykers. Classic things like the eyes burning with warp-fire, electrical bolts or auras are common with powerful manifestations.
Your argument holds true with low key powers. Like sensing the future, or manipulating smaller objects with thought.
But frikkin demolisher cannon levels? Definitely visible.

2: Urgrugg has actually not manifested many powers compared to what he could be doing. I agree with you here.

3: No, cover will help. However, depending on the power the power might be able to go through cover. But the aforementioned demolisher -esque power sounds like a bolt of energy.
If it's not, well, argument 1 still stands.

4: Yes there exist times where the the power backlashes, this ranges from COMMON to UNCOMMON depending on the level of control your psyker has and the stability of the veil of the warp.
Experienced psykers usually have little issues with them since they are powerful psykers, and powerful psykers can manifest simpler powers more easily since they don't have to strain themselves to do it unlike noob psykers.
Casting a lasgun bolt equivalent power is easy peasy for a powerful psyker, while it is not for a newly sanctioned one.
But more importantly, since the veil is weaker on this hulk, there is an adversely LARGER risk of ALL psykers to suffer from unexpected phenomena and backlashes.
Urgrugg being an unsanctioned psyker also doesn't have the same training as a sanctioned psyker, and thus will manifest phenomena more frequently than sanctioned ones.
I could go the next step to waaagh energy, but Urgrugg doesn't use that.

So seeing that Urgrugg is a powerful psyker, began as an ork weirdboy and with no sanctioning and using only experience to avoid phenomena, i'd say psychic phenomena should occur a bloody lot around Urgrugg.

But in the end, remember.
There are two named novel space marines in that corridor, one is a tech-marine, known for their resilience.
You are a big nob with no armour and a glowy stick. You are at the disadvantage here.
And you could have taken cover, seeing Urgrugg is described as thinking more humanlike, i'm honestly surprised he charged in.

I was gonna sit back around a corner, but i was apparently in line of sight from a bolter.
Unless the two marines are not beside each other, then the power won't hit both of them anyway.

And, this is a hulk.
Not all parts of the hulk is from imperial warships. Some parts are a lot less structurally sound.
So big booms might actually collapse large sections of floor, rip open walls to unsealed areas or just open up a door so a bunch of creepy crawlies come out.

Just to clarify a couple of points here.

Nowhere did I ever state that this was a Chaos RP, in fact in the OP I specifically said that characters did not need to be aligned with Chaos.

However, we are currently in a place where the warp is literally Bleeding into the Materium.

How so? I never said it came through a warp rip, only that it had entered the system; could well have just drifted there. While there would be residual warp energy about, I wouldn't say it was bleeding into the materium.

We are talking about Literal magic.

No we're not, psychic phenomena - at least in 40k - is far different from 'magic', something closer to fantasy where a wizard can conjure things out of thin air. The Eisenhorn Trilogy is a good example of this, the protagonist having to focus each time he even so much as nudges someones mind, becoming psychically strained when using more powerful examples...then again, he is a quite low level psyker, so who knows?

2.) Over the past several hours, he's manifested 5 spells. Yes, psykers are limited. On average, a properly trained librarian can cast two to three spells reliably within the time frame of discharging his bolt pistol in a single burst. He would need to focus himself again, in somewhere around two to three minutes.

But Urgrugg is not a trained librarian, as far as I'm aware, and he has used some large spells...

On this point, since you called be out for not asking sooner, how would you categorise Urgrugg? What sory of psyker level would he be in the Imperium and - although I'm pretty sure you've already answered this - how is he able to manifest his psychic powers without access to the gathered Waaagh! energy of other Greenskins? I'm nearly certain you gave an answer, but I can't find it.

All mentions of the table top game don't matter; I'm stating now that what we're doing here is coming from the lore alone - if I had wanted this to be a table-top RP that focused on using the codices and such for measurements and standards of power, then I would have deliberately put this RP into the sites Table Top section instead.

Is that seriously what's wrong? Everyone is mad because my character can put out a lot of damage? It's 40k. Everyone has the potential of massive damage output. Hyper-advanced technology does that.

That is true, but at this very moment nobody has any hyper-advanced technology, nor are they likely to find it aboard this hulk, so we are stuck with a load of characters that your own - from what I've read so far - could simply blink out of existence without much effort. This may not be the case, but currently he is the most powerful one in the RP, everyone else at least a tier down or possibly two if you want to think of it in RPG terms of power.

I'm not going to force you to do anything you don't want to, that's not the sort of GM I am, and if you wish to destroy Vedius with a psychic demolisher shell then I give you full permission to do so; I would think about what you'd do after that though.

I personally really want venous alive, so.

@Jbcool
In order:

My original point was that a psykers abilities are limited less by the psyker himself, and more by the amount of warp energy on hand. If I was mistaken about the amount of latent warp energy present, then that's my bad. That said, there is still a greater amount than normal on hand, so a psyker would be far from hard-pressed to go throwing powers around.

Quoting Warhammer 40,000 Wikia, page Immaterium; Emphasis mine:
"The Immaterium (also referred to as the Empyrean, the Aether, the Sea of Souls, the Realm of Chaos, Warpspace or most commonly, the Warp) is an alternate dimension of purely psychic energy that echoes and underlies the familiar four dimensions of the material universe. It is the source of all psychic powers and known instances of so-called "sorcery" or "magic" as well as the home dimension of the Chaos Gods and their myriad daemonic servants"
Strictly speaking, warp energy and what can be done with it is a bit better explained in 40k than in most settings. However, it still operates on the same basic lines of logic and reasoning as magic generally does. It has little to no actual rules, it's random by nature, and as a source of power it's shaped not by any inherent laws of nature, but by the sheer willpower of the one using it.

Orks are odd, in terms of psykers. Yes, they need to learn to control it, but gathering and expelling energy, and great deals of it at that, is how weirdboyz work in general. Any weirdboy, regardless of his skill or general power level, would easily be able to murder three of four tactical marines in a single blast of power, only to do it again a minute or two later. Skill only determines how likely they are to die when gathering the energy they need to do it. What's important to note here is that Waaagh energy is still psychic energy, and thus warp energy. The only thing that makes it special is that it exists in the matterium because orks constantly radiate it like heat from an open fire. This also means that normal weirdboyz are all but immune to the influence of chaos. Urgrugg isn't, but he's special.

Naturally, ork weirdboyz are more than capable of competing with librarian and sorcerer level psykers, at least in terms of damage output. How they work is straightforward. When around other ork, they absorb the latent psychic energy of the Waaagh field that all ork emit. In fact, they tend to absorb so much that if the Don't unload it, they'll explode, or die in some other horrible manner. This energy is so powerful, it allows them to spew gouts of warp-plasma from their mouths that will reduce lightly armored tanks to molten slag. Throwing out massive blasts of damage is just how ork psykers work, in general.

In terms of skill, Urgrugg is what is known among orks as a warphead. This means that he has learned how to regularly gather, manipulate, and wield Waaagh energy. When he was young, and still living with his tribe, he spent about forty years doing this, all while regularly participating in combat. For that to be true, and him to have lived so long, he would Have to be at this level of skill. Otherwise, he would have killed himself within a year or two just trying to handle all the Waaagh energy that is naturally produced in massive sums on an ork battle field.

What makes Urgrugg unique among weirdboyz are two things:
1.) He's able to draw power directly from the warp, and not just the warp energy that makes up the Waaagh field. The reason he can do this is what I've been keeping secret. It all ties back to his home world, and even further back to the creation of the orks as a race. Originally, the ork race were called Krork, and were created by the Smart Boyz (know to everyone else as the Old Ones) to defeat the Necrons during the War in Heaven. However, when the Old Ones were defeated, and the Necrons retired to their tombs to wait out the death of all other things in the materium, the Krork were still alive. In some cases, like that of Urgrugg'ss tribe, the death of the Smart Boyz left them stranded on an isolated planet.
Keeping in mind that they were created by the Old Ones, who were able to bend reality to their will like gods because of their sheer mastery of the Immaterium, and who also created the Eldar, I thought it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the psykers of their warrior race would be able to draw power from the warp. The ability to be powered by the presence of other warriors seemed like a logical solution to fighting the necron null-fields that cut off areas of space from the warp entirely.
The idea of Urgrugg is that he was born as one of these psykers, a remnant of the latent potential that resides locked in the DNA of all orks, but has been selectively culled out of them over the millions of years since their creation.

2.) Naturally, as there basically aren't other psykers like him among orks, he had to learn how to master his non-Waaagh powers some other way. This is where his dealings with daemons comes in. In exchange for teaching him to control his powers, giving him access to a much wider variety of abilities than the average weirdboy, he promised them his body and soul as a prize when he died. Wanting the secrets of the Old Ones, the daemons excepted. As a trick, though, they inscribed runes of power into him that mutated him, and cut him off from the Waaagh. This forced him to rely even more on the daemons, which led to further mutation and insanity which is generally common among normal psykers. Being trained by daemons, specifically those of the ranks of Tzeentch, he naturally is a very well-trained psyker.
All that amounts to the basic concept behind how Urgrugg exists, mostly because I couldn't think up anything less elaborate that would allow a weirdboy to have powers without an army of ork around him.

At the end of the day, it's hard to pinpoint where Urgrugg stands on the Imperial Assignment chart. Being an ork, he'd probably be classified as an Iota-Eta level. However, when you compare known and frequently used weirdboy powers to what librarians are able to do, at least in terms of destructive combat powers, he's fully capable of competing with shadowseers and librarians. All weirdboyz are. That would put him somewhere around Epsilon-Zeta level, possibly higher. However, as I've said, when it comes to small, subtle things, he's basically useless. Where a normal Iota level sanctioned psyker could easily manipulate a pen to write his name with ease, Urgrugg would probably blow up the table trying. That's why everything he's done so far has only been large-scale.

I'm sorry that people are feeling upset for Urgrugg's power level. Unfortunately, that's just the standard M.O. for ork psykers. They're not like humans, and the rules for how they work are completely different. From day one, they begin immersed in power that they are forced to expel violently through acts of devastating destruction. Unlike humans, they also don't need training to learn to control those massive sums of power. They were literally purpose-built to do just that. If he didn't know how to control it, then as a battle-hardened ork Urgrugg would be dead by now. So, he has to know how.

That said, my intent was never to harm the other players. My plan was to have some genestealers show up, then to make a show of blasting them and not the marines. You know, as a show of good faith.

@Necroes I think the problem is not how powerful your character is, nor how fluff correct he is.

But as you stated with the ork weirdboys in your latest post, they are violent and only have a high setting.
That's why we're so annoyed when you claim your powers aren't visible until it's too late.
Weirdboys and psykers in general are known to be VERY obvious when they cast combat powers. Orks even more so.

So people would have a chance of dodging them, not saying it would be easy, not saying they won't take some damage even if they dodge.
I'm saying it's possible with most combat powers.
And psykers would have a moment or so more than others to react. Because of psyniscience.

And if you wanted to be neutral to the marines, why would you bring in the most destructive power you got and frikkin demolisher shell them?
Seems a bit contra-productive?

I for one support some gene-stealer cultists. Purestrain genestealers however are shitloads dangerous so if any of those appear i'd be hiding in a vent like a sissy :P
That way we could avoid tearing at each others throats, which is probably a good thing.

I think what has happened here is that most of us were believing that he was an average Weirdboy, but you've made him into some form of ultra-Weirdboy who doesn't need to be around other Orks to function. That is what I have a problem with, as you've essentially created your own lore within the lore to turn your character into something that - by your own admission - doesn't exist in the Greenskins of 40K.

If I came into a 40K RP of your own devising, hypothetically, and made him...let's say...a Tzeentchian psyker who didn't need warp energy to 'do his thing' because of a special section of DNA he had discovered within the Thousand Son progenoid gland, unlocked the secret of, and now meant he could pretty much use his abilities at will without any risk from the warp or effort.

You see where I'm going?

I'm well aware that it's not the exact same thing, just the fact he's an Ork makes it different, but you could have just made him another type of Ork - or even a Weirdboy still, we'd have come across other Orks eventually, until then he could simply maul people by the fact he's about as bodily powerful as most humans even without his powers.

As I said, I'm not going to make you alter anything or do anything, in fact I' say we've made/are making progress.

I'm going to make a post tomorrow anyway, so either kill Vedius before then or do something else. The choice is yours.

Alright. Decent.

As the door behind the marines opened

What door?

If you mean the massive door that I mentioned, well that won't be opening from within, if you mean just some random door that hasn't been mentioned but is still there and they've all come from...then fair dinkum.

Certainly not the mutants you have to look out for though.

@Jbcool Yea, it'd be the second one.