... murder-hobos are a bountiful resource.

I laughed so hard....

@rush99999 You were unsuccessful in attempting to break down the door. You did notice a purple sheen that appeared when you hit the door but it disappeared a few moments later.

I have extended my post to accommodate the results of the roll.

<Snipped quote by Cardamonelaw>

I laughed so hard....

I won't lie, I kind of want to see that slave auction.

Auctioneer: Murder-Hobos! Getch-yah murder-hobos here! We've got big murder-hobos, short murder-hobos, fat murder-hobos, skinny murder-hobos... why you name a type of murder-hobo and if we ain't got it, then it just can't be got, I tell you what! Murder-Hobos! Getch-yah murder-hobos here! That's right folks each one of these fine specimens is a guaranteed jobless, bloodthirsty, corpse-looting bastard... or your money back! MURDER-HOBOS! GETCH-YAH MURDER-HOBOS HERE!

@The Mighty Hero

That's a bit of a Deus Ex isn't it?

@Cardamonelaw Pretty sure you can't get your money back for a bad murder hobo...that's how you get murdered...by murder hobos

@The Mighty Hero

That's a bit of a Deus Ex isn't it?

I have no idea what that is

<Snipped quote by The Grey Dust>

I have no idea what that is

Deus Ex Machina, aka plot armour/convenient divine intervention.

<Snipped quote by The Mighty Hero>

Deus Ex Machina, aka plot armour/convenient divine intervention.

Sometimes it's necessary.

@VKAllen

And playing as Cleric, I think I'm the only one allowed Divine Interventions.
And that's only at the character level which I haven't achieved yet...

Deux Ex Machina if done right, can work in a story, but I don't think this was executed in a way that adds to the story rather than just... Feels like a Cop Out to further railroad us :X

I can't fucking win. You want the details that I didn't add in the earlier posts but I'm railroading by doing so? The choice to do the quest is up to the player, the option on how to respond to the new information is up to the player. Railroading would be forcing you to go a specific route. There are multiple ways to get into the manor, it's up to the players how to do so.

I have no problems with the additional post from the DM. I think its still logical that someone would come in to try and help Alric and his quest if they had their family oppressed by the Mayor.

I understand the "What if its just a plot to set us all up to a trap?" Argument. The only problem is that if we were to treat anything the DM presents the player as a trap, we might as well not have a campaign to play.

@The Mighty Hero

Well its a matter of how and when you add the details. Having someone suddenly show up at the Cliffside Manor with a convenient map of the Mayor's private estate seems a bit off.

On one hand, you have the argument that the guy wants to help, but isn't a combat person and has family in distress too. Which all seems nice, and I'm fine with that, I mean given the circumstances it might have taken the guys down at the pub to spread the word or something or drudge out this map.

On the other hand, how does a village just happen to have a complete layout of the Mayor's map? Was he the guy who built it or something? was he a servant prior? I assume from the line "I work here" meaning he works at the manor, but that's vague either suggesting he works 'here' being the village, or 'here' being the estate. So if this is true however...

We run into another issue, can we IC trust a man working for the Mayor? Thus opening up another round of do the characters trust the players involved? There's no build of rapport since we missed out on the whole introductions at the bar thing to learn everyone's credentials. So beyond Kethan and Tessa, no character actually has a relationship with each other, and have no reason beyond their own personal judgment to trust anyone else. We've already had one character come to this conclusion and thus up and leave.

And it is sort of railroading since you tell us there's a map, but only mentioned the Servant's Entrance. There's no actual description of the layout of the manor on the map, so there's absolutely no choice we as players can make since the DM failed to actually produce a map for us to view IC/OOC and roleplay out our options which thus far are Warded Frontdoor, Vs Servant's Entrance. There's no description of how many stories the building is, No basement, no balcony, no chimney or rooftop access? The topiary garden has been described, but the manor itself to me right now appears to be a blank-vaguely house-shaped box with distinctive lack of features that a map could and probably would illuminate.

@The Mighty Hero Please provide us with the details of the manor so that we may be able to gain a better idea of how it looks.

I would also like to mention that Crow Eater attempted to search for any other entrances beside the front door, with an investigation score of 9 which wasn't addressed.

To avoid any present confusion. IC Arius is pointing out he can cast either Dispel Magic on the door if the party wants to continue with the direct approach and knock it down or he can cast Misty Step to just go inside the front alone causing a distraction when whoever comes to see what caused the *BOOM*, while everyone else sneaks around back, since the plate windows give him line of sight inside. Neither he nor I (as a player) are in any way suggesting thus are the only options. Not trying to force either on anyone.

And it is sort of railroading since you tell us there's a map, but only mentioned the Servant's Entrance. There's no actual description of the layout of the manor on the map, so there's absolutely no choice we as players can make since the DM failed to actually produce a map for us to view IC/OOC and roleplay out our options which thus far are Warded Frontdoor, Vs Servant's Entrance. There's no description of how many stories the building is, No basement, no balcony, no chimney or rooftop access? The topiary garden has been described, but the manor itself to me right now appears to be a blank-vaguely house-shaped box with distinctive lack of features that a map could and probably would illuminate.
[/quote]

It was addressed that there were windows, and that the walls surrounding the manor were 20 ft high, walls are not typically taller or the same height as the building they surround so one can assume the manor is multi-leveled. How does one access the windows? Try climbing, for gods sake you've got a character who stands 8 feet tall that could lift someone higher up. Instead of accusing me of railroading (which is frankly rude and serves no purpose other than to piss me off) try asking for more information if you feel you don't have enough to RP out further choices. As stated previously this is my first time DMing (on an online forum, not an actual D&D game) so I am used to more things being addressed by player questions than just assuming the DM is a omniscient being who knows that you personally don't have enough information to RP your character effectively. Say something without all the attitude.

As for @VKAllen I missed that Crow Eater had attempted to find another way in, I will go back and address it. I apologize that I missed it.

@VKAllen As you investigate you notice that there are old, thick vines that run up the length of the manor towards the west side (closer to the edge of the cliff, you can't see the edge as the walls block it off). There are three balconies across the 3rd (and top) story of the manor. There are doors opening out to each balcony, the set of doors closest to the west end (about ten feet from the closest patch of vines that could support a grown adult) is open, the breeze coming off the water has white curtains fluttering in and out with the whims of the wind. Alternatively, the roof has several chimneys, one of which looks like it may fit one of your more lithe companions.

@The Mighty Hero

I'm not trying to be mean or anything.
Honestly, as a player I can't see what the DM sees unless the DM tells me.
I can ask I suppose, and I will for future purposes.

@Cardamonelaw Pretty sure you can't get your money back for a bad murder hobo...that's how you get murdered...by murder hobos

Well, if your murder-hobo murders you than its clearly not defective and you're not really entitled to a refund. A murder-hobo murdering is a murder-hobo working as advertised. :P

@The Grey Dust

It's hard sometimes to judge A) how something is intended when written since there is no inflection like there is in speech and B) to tell how what we write is going to come across to someone else when reading it. I am, admittedly, less understanding/nice at the moment which is not your fault and not something you or anyone else deserves for which I apologize. If the intent was not to have an attitude buy simply to ask for more information then we're square. It just came across as very disrespectful when I read it, which is on me for reading it that way.

If I can find a site that will allow me to make maps without paying for them I will upload them for players. I usually use a white board in my D&D campaigns but don't have that option here. I could in the future draw it out on paper and just scan it as a jpeg and upload to photbucket or something. I'll look into my options for providing players more visual aid.