Withdrawn pending conversation with @Ruby
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OP
LegionPothIX
Member
Seen
2 yrs ago
@Sini I added the section [Infancy] based on what we discussed so it should be an easy thing to find and review review. I also made minor changes to [Early Childhood] to ensure the added information is not being talked about twice.
Heat Hey, nice marmot
Member
Seen
2 mos ago
Looks good to me. The sheet has my approval.
I have tried to keep my remarks analogic with the order in which they appeared in your sheet. Some general remarks: avoid run-on sentences and add in age specifications in her bio. How old was she approximately when she was enslaved, discovered by the Jedi, switched sides,…?
Regarding the spelling of her name:
I dislike the style. It looks like a company name to me (like SoroSuub). I do not hold it against the character or your sheet. It is a sufficiently grey area and not grounds for a denial. That said, I believe you are better off basing yourself on the known Mirialan names. A few quick examples are Arwen Cohl, Kixiaralu, Jana Lorso, Luminara Unduli, Hylo Visz and Zeven.
Reference Description:
In her attire description you say she only has one lightsabre, but later down you mention a second.
What do you mean by “her wardrobe theremin”? A theremin is an electrical instrument.
One of your reference image links is broken.
Infancy:
How did “simple farmers” afford a ship? Where did they get it? Why would they need one? Why would they not just sell whatever crops they raised to a trader or firm?
The past tense of “to drag” is “dragged”, not “drug”.
Why did they need training? Why Ryloth?
Early Childhood:
The entire first paragraph conflicts with what you wrote about Mylar’s infancy. First you say they failed payment on a loan, which allows their Hutt creditor to clap them in irons and then take them to Ryloth to be trained as slaves. And here you say they were shot down over Ryloth. Was this a failed escape attempt?
When did her parents die? How? It's unclear if they lived on but were unable to pay off their debt, or if they were killed because of that crash.
Teens:
How come they didn’t find out her growing obsession with the Sith Code?
Adulthood:
“Gall”, not “gal”.
Trinkets and totems:
Last paragraph’s last sentence is botched.
Traits:
Eschilon -> echelon. Also, what echelon?
Lord Calhound
Colleges -> colleagues
Why would philosophy be taught at Korriban if the prevalent opinion is so that nobody takes it seriously? Furthermore, even if Calhound is rather unimpressive, he is still a high-ranking personage. A healthy amount of fear ought to be expected, certainly from students/acolytes.
Reread the two last paragraphs for typos and incongruent conjugations and tenses.
Therese:
“Shipwright”, not “shipwrite”.
“Refining down” – What does that mean?
Dynamic-class freighter:
Why settle for this model and not something newer? Why stick to it after forcibly recruiting Therese? It being a piece of junk but possessing state of the art components seems like a contradiction. Also, Mk. 2 hyperdrive is quite high-end, a bit too high-end for this thing, I’d say.
Tattoos & Heritage:
“A Mirialan would place a unique, often geometrically repeated tattoo on their face and hands to signify that they had completed a certain test or task, or achieved sufficient aptitude for a certain skill. The number of tattoos would thus often act as a good indicator of how mature and/or skilled a Mirialan was. Because the more markings brought about a form of status.” – from Wookiepedia
You describe her tattoos. They are an integral part of Mirialan society. In fact, there was an entire lexicon about these. However, Mylar grew up outside of Mirialan society. How did she get her tattoos? What do they mean? Does she even know what they represent? Why would she bother getting them?
Regarding the spelling of her name:
I dislike the style. It looks like a company name to me (like SoroSuub). I do not hold it against the character or your sheet. It is a sufficiently grey area and not grounds for a denial. That said, I believe you are better off basing yourself on the known Mirialan names. A few quick examples are Arwen Cohl, Kixiaralu, Jana Lorso, Luminara Unduli, Hylo Visz and Zeven.
Reference Description:
In her attire description you say she only has one lightsabre, but later down you mention a second.
What do you mean by “her wardrobe theremin”? A theremin is an electrical instrument.
One of your reference image links is broken.
Infancy:
How did “simple farmers” afford a ship? Where did they get it? Why would they need one? Why would they not just sell whatever crops they raised to a trader or firm?
The past tense of “to drag” is “dragged”, not “drug”.
Why did they need training? Why Ryloth?
Early Childhood:
The entire first paragraph conflicts with what you wrote about Mylar’s infancy. First you say they failed payment on a loan, which allows their Hutt creditor to clap them in irons and then take them to Ryloth to be trained as slaves. And here you say they were shot down over Ryloth. Was this a failed escape attempt?
When did her parents die? How? It's unclear if they lived on but were unable to pay off their debt, or if they were killed because of that crash.
Teens:
How come they didn’t find out her growing obsession with the Sith Code?
Adulthood:
“Gall”, not “gal”.
Trinkets and totems:
Last paragraph’s last sentence is botched.
Traits:
Eschilon -> echelon. Also, what echelon?
Lord Calhound
Colleges -> colleagues
Why would philosophy be taught at Korriban if the prevalent opinion is so that nobody takes it seriously? Furthermore, even if Calhound is rather unimpressive, he is still a high-ranking personage. A healthy amount of fear ought to be expected, certainly from students/acolytes.
Reread the two last paragraphs for typos and incongruent conjugations and tenses.
Therese:
“Shipwright”, not “shipwrite”.
“Refining down” – What does that mean?
Dynamic-class freighter:
Why settle for this model and not something newer? Why stick to it after forcibly recruiting Therese? It being a piece of junk but possessing state of the art components seems like a contradiction. Also, Mk. 2 hyperdrive is quite high-end, a bit too high-end for this thing, I’d say.
Tattoos & Heritage:
“A Mirialan would place a unique, often geometrically repeated tattoo on their face and hands to signify that they had completed a certain test or task, or achieved sufficient aptitude for a certain skill. The number of tattoos would thus often act as a good indicator of how mature and/or skilled a Mirialan was. Because the more markings brought about a form of status.” – from Wookiepedia
You describe her tattoos. They are an integral part of Mirialan society. In fact, there was an entire lexicon about these. However, Mylar grew up outside of Mirialan society. How did she get her tattoos? What do they mean? Does she even know what they represent? Why would she bother getting them?
The past tense of “to drag” is “dragged”, not “drug”.
It's not the past tense. It's the imperfect tense. The years had been, but continue to still be, dragging on. They drug on.
Do you know why it's dragged here? Because to use a 'continuous imperfect', you use the Simple Past i.e.: they dragged on. I believe you might be confused because you think "to drag" is a strong/irregular verb. It ain't.
"Drug on" is still wrong. I teach English for a living. That does not make me infallible, but it does let me tell you what tense is wrong or not. Calling a tense imperfect simply means the action is not over yet. The imperfect form (which is a quirky thing in English, depending on if it's habitual or continuous) is then further defined in time (past - present - future). In this case it's the past.
Now, you still have a few options open. Either you go with the progressive action and write "they were dragging on", but that just doesn't sound right, does it? That is because the verb "to drag" expresses a state and progressive aspect itself already. We can therefore ommit the simple past of "to be" and go straight to the simple past of "to drag".
Even if it was habitual and not continuous, the simple past would still be used.
The past simple form of "to drag" is "dragged". Use it.
"As a result Mylar has developed a form of kleptomania that, so long as she nothing important gets caught in her sticky-fingers, has gone largely overlooked by the Sith whom trained her."
"As a result Mylar has developed a form of kleptomania that has gone largely overlooked by the Sith whom trained her."
It's a clarifying interjection. The sentence is correct as it is; with or without it.
"so long as she nothing important gets caught in her sticky-fingers." That word order and tense are incorrect, and a verb is missing or placed badly. Also it is "The Sith who trained her", not "whom". "Who" is the object of "Sith" and "to train", not a preposition. An easy trick is to try and substitute "who/whom" with he/she/they. If it works, you want "who".
The sentences are not correct as they are.
There are a lot of things i intentionally left out of this character sheet, and even some of them I already discussed with other people. I did so for a reason and am aware what is missing. Believe me.
That's good! How am I supposed to know, though?
By your own admission this point is not relevant and should not be here.
What? Two things: 1) I don't appreciate you making and sharing screenshots of a DM conversation without asking me. I repeated my reservations and reasoning here because I wanted to publicly state them on the forum. See how it is practically the same feedback as I provided you in private? However, without a picture (small as it is) of my face. 2) A character's name and spelling are very relevant to approval.
Regardless or not if it is directly linked to approval, it features in the feedback process. The faulty grammar and spelling for instance are also not immediately tied to denial but I/we still point them out.
One functioning lightsaber. While she has the other saber in her possession, she obviously doesn't take it into combat, or wear it around on display. It's broken. It's named "Broken". I go in detail about how broken it is, in what ways it is broken, who broke it, and why it is broken. Accompanies is a general term to suggest where she goes it goes, but doesn't necessitate it be on her person in the same way.
I know. The ambiguity is what bothered me. Just as you say that "to accompany" does not necessitate it being on her person, it can be.
Spaceships are a general commodity.
Sci-fi or not: nope.
Compliance and obedience are not innate traits in prisoners. Ryloth was nearby, and is world renowned for its slave trade (and by consequence its slave trainers).
Why not hit them with a big stick, fix electric collars and put them to work on a field? They were farmers. People want to survive, and quickly acquiesce when rebellion is met with violence and pain. My question, though, was why did they need to be trained? As what?
That is the contextual implication.
Make it 'textual'.
It's intentionally unclear because it's a plot hook. I have numerous plot hooks in this character sheet.
Make them clear.
Short answer: the code is philosophy. It is not alignment. Long answer: I had a detailed conversation about this with Jedi Master Heat. It's how Imposter Syndrome works. It's a very interesting malady and I highly recommend you look it up.
So is Hakuna Matata. Again, I was not part of that conversation. I'm fine with the explanation but, yet again, include it in your sheet. Also explain how she got her hands on this highly volatile material without supervision. A padawan reading the Sith Codes is a big, big red flag.
For the same reason we teach math, and against the same prevailing sentiments. Psychological warfare is a staple of the empire and that doesn't happen by accident.
So it IS taken seriously!
Both fear, and respect, are states of mind. As such they require continuous upkeep and maintenance. This is not something that Calhound puts the effort into.
Sure, on a personal level. His person, however, still represents an institution. I was not frightened by my university professors, but them simply having the PhD. is something I found respectable and perhaps a tad intimidating. In fact, it is only when you know them personally that the general prejudice falls away and you either stop fearing them or fear them even more. Short story: any Sith Lord is at least somewhat feared by those lower on the food chain.
The [Dynamic-class freighter's] parts are readily accessible.
Except they're not: "Dynamic-class starships were rare throughout the galaxy as only one ship was produced at a time." and "Following a corporate reorganization, the Transel-based subsidiary was granted ongoing funding but a lack of oversight which allowed the continued production of a single Dynamic-class freighter at a time." A newer model is already in use, so the Dynamic is no longer being produced, and there were not many to begin with. Working (spare) parts are logically in short supply. My suggestion is pick a different unaffiliated or Sith-flavoured ship.
That was the point. It's stolen. From the Hutts. Again, it's another plot hook.
Again, specify or elaborate.
Your argument supposes that said tattoos are of personal importance to Mylar--that they mean anything--or even that she got them herself. As they a staple of Mirialan society, any Mirialan slave would be expected to have them, and would be given them accordingly. You'll note her accentuation of the tattoos is to bring them in-line with her costumes. I thought implication was clear. The tattoos themselves are part of her "costume" as a slave. They are branding anchoring her to her sense of self as defined by her past as a slave.
So they are slave tattoos chosen by an overlord and not Mirialan tattoos.
Ellri Lord of Eat / Relic
Member
Seen
1 yr ago
This review will not cover the elements that Sini has covered. Instead, it will delve into two aspects that Sini asked us to check up on: her knowledge of the Force and her knowledge of lightsaber techniques.
When we look at a sheet, we don’t look at how long or short it is. We look at what it contains. It doesn’t matter to us if it is two hundred words or five thousand. What matters to us is what the player achieves with those words and how easily understood it is. Quality, not quantity.
We like details on sheets, but not if it comes at a cost to comprehensibility or is used to hide elements that would make the character overpowered. Same goes for layout. Both as a player and as a GM we’re not particularly happy if we have to go searching through the entire sheet if we need to look something up while composing a post. Hence, ease of use being given high value.
Anyways. The Force.
Your table for Force skills is confusing.
In the Guide to the Force, we have two rows for skill: trained and talent.
It is intended that only a single option be picked for each Force power. The Trained column implies there was no innate talent, and the power was gained only through hard work. The Talented column implies the character had an innate understanding of the power that may since have also had training / practice to bring it whatever standard it currently is. We apologise if this was not clear on the Guide.
Additionally, your Sith is extremely and unnaturally knowledgeable about the Force for her age.
Going by the first skill level column:
You have three techniques with advanced training, five with intermediate training and nine with basic/novice training. Normal training for reaching advanced skill in a technique is at least a decade of training. At twenty-three years old, having three techniques at that level in addition to everything else is beyond all plausibility.
Going by the second skill level column:
The second skill level column is even less plausible. There you have five well-trained talents and one mastered talent. The estimated time for learning one technique to well-trained levels is at least a decade, maybe two with a master combined with considerable self-study. A mastered technique requires several decades of study provided the Force user is doing anything other than studying that single technique. At twenty-three years old, you have the skill of someone close to a hundred years old. It goes without saying that doesn’t even remotely make sense.
If you look in the Guide to uses for the Force, you will see at the top of each “advanced uses” section there is a note that adding one of them to a sheet requires GM approval. This is primarily due to how powerful they can be, and because of how game-breaking they might be. We’ve not seen any such requests.
It is noteworthy that you have not listed Telekinesis as a known technique, but that can be assumed to be an oversight. Without a good grasp of that, learning more advanced forms such as telekinetic whirlwind, force choke and the like would obviously be impossible.
Force Stealth is a technique that is taught at need only, as it is something both Jedi and Sith don’t want just anyone playing around with.
Your description of battle meditation doesn’t match how the technique works.
As such, we will ask that you remove all four advanced techniques from the sheet.
You seem to also have secondary tables with force techniques, several of them too rare. All that does is make things even more confusing. We would greatly appreciate it if you could rephrase the whole force section into something basically along this basic format:
List of known techniques and level of training or talent.
Description of her skill with the various known techniques.
Right now, the layout of this section is far too muddled to be something we can approve.
In that process, you should also cut down on the number of techniques known and have no more than a third of the known techniques be innate talents. Think about the character as a whole when choosing what to keep and what to discard. What would benefit her style? Don’t just look at the technique list as a pool to pick as much as you might want from.
Should you discover in the IC that she really benefits from a certain technique not on the sheet, she will have the ability to learn it from someone that knows it.
You may apply for at most one technique from the advanced lists, but it will have to be explained well and fit in with the character as a whole to be approved of.
We will assume that the lack of basic telekinesis training on the Force power list was an oversight… However even with this being the case, Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat is well and truly outside the reach of such a young character. It requires incredible telekinetic finesse, incredible long term telekinetic focus and a good deal of raw telekinetic strength to execute correctly. The combination of these things is not something anyone below Lord could feasibly have mastered to a usable degree. Even a Sith Lord would have to be a Telekinetic prodigy for this to work.
The types of users who learn this are either masters of the lightsaber, who know just when to use it, or particularly devious combatants who take the risk it involves. Your character comes across as neither of these. It is not a technique that in any way can be considered reliable for victory in combat, due to the high chance of backfiring. Its potentially immediately lethal nature is also something we will pay close attention to - no one likes their character being instantly killed by an unblockable strike, and so in most cases it will be up to the one on the receiving end how much damage they take from such a hit.
Additionally, we would like you to add a section for flaws. The reason that is in the sheet templates is so that players and GMs alike can easily reference it while writing posts without having to read the entire sheet.
When we look at a sheet, we don’t look at how long or short it is. We look at what it contains. It doesn’t matter to us if it is two hundred words or five thousand. What matters to us is what the player achieves with those words and how easily understood it is. Quality, not quantity.
We like details on sheets, but not if it comes at a cost to comprehensibility or is used to hide elements that would make the character overpowered. Same goes for layout. Both as a player and as a GM we’re not particularly happy if we have to go searching through the entire sheet if we need to look something up while composing a post. Hence, ease of use being given high value.
Anyways. The Force.
Your table for Force skills is confusing.
In the Guide to the Force, we have two rows for skill: trained and talent.
It is intended that only a single option be picked for each Force power. The Trained column implies there was no innate talent, and the power was gained only through hard work. The Talented column implies the character had an innate understanding of the power that may since have also had training / practice to bring it whatever standard it currently is. We apologise if this was not clear on the Guide.
Additionally, your Sith is extremely and unnaturally knowledgeable about the Force for her age.
Going by the first skill level column:
You have three techniques with advanced training, five with intermediate training and nine with basic/novice training. Normal training for reaching advanced skill in a technique is at least a decade of training. At twenty-three years old, having three techniques at that level in addition to everything else is beyond all plausibility.
Going by the second skill level column:
The second skill level column is even less plausible. There you have five well-trained talents and one mastered talent. The estimated time for learning one technique to well-trained levels is at least a decade, maybe two with a master combined with considerable self-study. A mastered technique requires several decades of study provided the Force user is doing anything other than studying that single technique. At twenty-three years old, you have the skill of someone close to a hundred years old. It goes without saying that doesn’t even remotely make sense.
If you look in the Guide to uses for the Force, you will see at the top of each “advanced uses” section there is a note that adding one of them to a sheet requires GM approval. This is primarily due to how powerful they can be, and because of how game-breaking they might be. We’ve not seen any such requests.
It is noteworthy that you have not listed Telekinesis as a known technique, but that can be assumed to be an oversight. Without a good grasp of that, learning more advanced forms such as telekinetic whirlwind, force choke and the like would obviously be impossible.
Force Stealth is a technique that is taught at need only, as it is something both Jedi and Sith don’t want just anyone playing around with.
Your description of battle meditation doesn’t match how the technique works.
As such, we will ask that you remove all four advanced techniques from the sheet.
You seem to also have secondary tables with force techniques, several of them too rare. All that does is make things even more confusing. We would greatly appreciate it if you could rephrase the whole force section into something basically along this basic format:
List of known techniques and level of training or talent.
Description of her skill with the various known techniques.
Right now, the layout of this section is far too muddled to be something we can approve.
In that process, you should also cut down on the number of techniques known and have no more than a third of the known techniques be innate talents. Think about the character as a whole when choosing what to keep and what to discard. What would benefit her style? Don’t just look at the technique list as a pool to pick as much as you might want from.
Should you discover in the IC that she really benefits from a certain technique not on the sheet, she will have the ability to learn it from someone that knows it.
You may apply for at most one technique from the advanced lists, but it will have to be explained well and fit in with the character as a whole to be approved of.
Lightsaber
We will assume that the lack of basic telekinesis training on the Force power list was an oversight… However even with this being the case, Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat is well and truly outside the reach of such a young character. It requires incredible telekinetic finesse, incredible long term telekinetic focus and a good deal of raw telekinetic strength to execute correctly. The combination of these things is not something anyone below Lord could feasibly have mastered to a usable degree. Even a Sith Lord would have to be a Telekinetic prodigy for this to work.
A Tràkata strike is the act of turning a lightsaber off and on again mid-strike to bypass the opponent’s weapon. It is an inherently dangerous technique, for while it lets the user bypass the opponent’s weapon, it also leaves the user completely open to attacks. Because it requires the blade momentarily disappearing, it is not something that is possible with any other bladed weapon.
Used right and it can instantly maim, critically injure or kill an opponent. Used wrong and the user gets that treatment instead. As such, it is a strike that most Jedi and Sith alike do not attempt to learn.
The types of users who learn this are either masters of the lightsaber, who know just when to use it, or particularly devious combatants who take the risk it involves. Your character comes across as neither of these. It is not a technique that in any way can be considered reliable for victory in combat, due to the high chance of backfiring. Its potentially immediately lethal nature is also something we will pay close attention to - no one likes their character being instantly killed by an unblockable strike, and so in most cases it will be up to the one on the receiving end how much damage they take from such a hit.
Additionally, we would like you to add a section for flaws. The reason that is in the sheet templates is so that players and GMs alike can easily reference it while writing posts without having to read the entire sheet.
This is becoming a tiresome exercise. I'll try to keep it brief.
A lot is said and told over Discord. Let's try to keep it in the thread for now.
No.
I do not. Yes, I know farming equipment is incredibly expensive. But since I am dealing with a fellow rustic and an expert on farming, I'm sure you'll agree that they cannot be away from their crops for a long time. Farming and trading have never been very compatible vocations (unless one can substitute labour, in which case the owners of the farm move away from farming and into trading). A farmer does not need a spaceship, as trading their produce would prohibit them from tending to their crops.
My 'nope' was to your claim that spaceships are ubiquitous. The vast majority of the Galaxy do not own one.
On the whole I have tried pointing out where you need to elaborate, where you need to edit et cetera in order to make Mylar work. Several of what you call "plot-hooks" are lacking in information. It is as if you defend lacunae by throwing out "but it's a plot-hook!" or "it's implied". You have a tendency to just assume it is clear what you mean by reading between the lines. This is not the case. I have pointed out those instances. Nevertheless, my feedback has been consistently been negated or outright denied. You're free to disagree and explain why you do. You're not free to ignore GM feedback. I get the impression that you are being contentious.
Your PC is an interesting spin, and I quite like the idea of a non-combat oriented Sith. However, it is your attitude and explicit refusal to accept criticism that I take issue with. If this persists then you are not a good fit for the PG. You have an explanation for everything, which makes having a constructive process nigh impossible. Somehow I also feel that you are taking this personal, if that is the case then let us know and I will see to it that you are assigned a different GM. Perhaps the one you've been complaing to might be willing. Yes, the GM-team communicates. Yes, we read the chat. No, we do not get preferential treatment.
As I told you in discord.
A lot is said and told over Discord. Let's try to keep it in the thread for now.
So, if they're not holding up the application, then can I get an "approved"?
No.
It seems you might have a fundamental misunderstanding on what farming entails.
I do not. Yes, I know farming equipment is incredibly expensive. But since I am dealing with a fellow rustic and an expert on farming, I'm sure you'll agree that they cannot be away from their crops for a long time. Farming and trading have never been very compatible vocations (unless one can substitute labour, in which case the owners of the farm move away from farming and into trading). A farmer does not need a spaceship, as trading their produce would prohibit them from tending to their crops.
My 'nope' was to your claim that spaceships are ubiquitous. The vast majority of the Galaxy do not own one.
On the whole I have tried pointing out where you need to elaborate, where you need to edit et cetera in order to make Mylar work. Several of what you call "plot-hooks" are lacking in information. It is as if you defend lacunae by throwing out "but it's a plot-hook!" or "it's implied". You have a tendency to just assume it is clear what you mean by reading between the lines. This is not the case. I have pointed out those instances. Nevertheless, my feedback has been consistently been negated or outright denied. You're free to disagree and explain why you do. You're not free to ignore GM feedback. I get the impression that you are being contentious.
Your PC is an interesting spin, and I quite like the idea of a non-combat oriented Sith. However, it is your attitude and explicit refusal to accept criticism that I take issue with. If this persists then you are not a good fit for the PG. You have an explanation for everything, which makes having a constructive process nigh impossible. Somehow I also feel that you are taking this personal, if that is the case then let us know and I will see to it that you are assigned a different GM. Perhaps the one you've been complaing to might be willing. Yes, the GM-team communicates. Yes, we read the chat. No, we do not get preferential treatment.
Ruby No One Cares
Member
Seen
8 days ago
Let's not make things personal with the PW Mods, please.
As far as I can tell two other GMs seem to have issues with the sheet (Ellri and SE), this doesn't seem to be Sini specific.
Perhaps you'd like to PM/DM me and talk about it @LegionPothIX?
If not consider the sheet denied and let's all agree to move on.
As far as I can tell two other GMs seem to have issues with the sheet (Ellri and SE), this doesn't seem to be Sini specific.
Perhaps you'd like to PM/DM me and talk about it @LegionPothIX?
If not consider the sheet denied and let's all agree to move on.
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