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Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by DELETED jdl3932
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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<Snipped quote by ZAVAZggg>

You could just roll him back a few hundred years. Make him a fresh vampire struggling with if his vampirism means the loss of his humanity, a deep seated sense of betrayal gnawing at his soul from what his brother did to him, caught between a desire to return home and exact vengeance or if home would even be a good place for him to be now that he's a monster. There's plenty of places to take a monstrous character struggling with if being a literal monster means they have to act like a monster and being tempted by how easy it would be to simply stop caring about anyone or anything but themself.

Incidentally there's nothing wrong with writing to explore a concept you find interesting but have you tried writing one you simply find enjoyable? My experience is that you get more out of writing something you having fun with over something that feels like a chore. That doesn't mean everything always going smoothly for your character, conflict is the basis of stories, but it means making a character that excites you to write about, even if it's not particularly complicated. (You may actually find that less complicated is better because it leaves you more to explore in the roleplay itself.)


Thing is, most characters I write I don't get excited for. At least not after the initial wave of it wears off anyway. Past a certain point I started seeing them mostly as tools to further a story or an arc, etc. The last time I actually had long term excitement for a character was for one that was both overpowered and not really even a character as far as personality went. Like they were easygoing yet loved a fight, and were arrogant/cocky because of their godlike power, and sometimes real edgy/monolouge-y.

Other than that they really weren't that deep nor interesting. More just a power fantasy.

Now, as for Arcamor, while the idea of him starting this way is a sound one, it does little to solve the lone wolf problem. In fact it makes it worse since he's now a fledgling and out for his brother's blood. Meaning he wants to return home even more so he can find and kill Lokil, and has less impulse control regarding what he feeds on, as well as less of a desire to actually stay with the group unless they're able to get him back. Because again, at this point he wants to find and end his brother. Like sure I could explore the whole becoming a monster thing but one, I've seen it done so many times it's started to bore me mainly because it ends up being a drawn out period of self-loathing followed by acceptance or denial or a begrudging acceptance, and two because even when I initially wrote his story he had already gotten over any qualms he might have had.

Because while his life was destroyed, the one who destroyed it was still running about freely. He could sit and mope about his losses or get revenge on the one who caused them. He did choose the latter, hence why I'll probably have to make a new character. That or I could just say that during this adventure he realizes threats from beyond his world both exist and would mean trouble if they are not promptly stopped, thus why he sticks around and aids the group.
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Dark Cloud
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@Prince of Seraphs So far the abilities look okay. But I'll give the rest of it a reread in a bit.
Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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@ZAVAZggg If I'm being honest, that sounds really sad. Maybe excitement is the wrong word, but shouldn't you have some kind of investment in your characters? What do you get out of writing them if you don't care about them as people and only see them as tools? Maybe try asking yourself, what part of you are you imbuing into the character. What part of them is a reflection of you, the piece that no one else could write, even if they had the same base concept, because they aren't you?

Again, really trying not to be mean, but what part of the vampire lord who killed the ancient Harkon, final boss of one of the Elder Scrolls games and only being capable of siring pure-blood vampires, took his throne, his sword, and his court, and has a bunch of gems made for stealing the souls of powerful beings, wasn't a power fantasy?

As for Arcamor, if you've decided he won't work, he won't work. It's that simple. You're the author, you can make changes to alter the character so they suit the setting. Naturally if you don't want to do that then they aren't going to suit the setting so a new concept is probably warranted.
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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@Dr Lovecraft@Dark Cloud Do let me know if I overstep. I'm try to be helpful but I know I have pushed too hard sometimes. I don't want to cross the line between "helpful critique" and "making someone feel bad about their work".

@Prince of Seraphs So far the abilities look okay. But I'll give the rest of it a reread in a bit.


Cool, I'll see about writing a bit more in depth on the plasmids. I just copied their in game description so they could probably use a bit of clarification.
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Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by DELETED jdl3932
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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@ZAVAZggg If I'm being honest, that sounds really sad. Maybe excitement is the wrong word, but shouldn't you have some kind of investment in your characters? What do you get out of writing them if you don't care about them as people and only see them as tools? Maybe try asking yourself, what part of you are you imbuing into the character. What part of them is a reflection of you, the piece that no one else could write, even if they had the same base concept, because they aren't you?

Again, really trying not to be mean, but what part of the vampire lord who killed the ancient Harkon, final boss of one of the Elder Scrolls games and only being capable of siring pure-blood vampires, took his throne, his sword, and his court, and has a bunch of gems made for stealing the souls of powerful beings, wasn't a power fantasy?

As for Arcamor, if you've decided he won't work, he won't work. It's that simple. You're the author, you can make changes to alter the character so they suit the setting. Naturally if you don't want to do that then they aren't going to suit the setting so a new concept is probably warranted.


I mean a major weakness is sunlight. I'm not going the ES route of being weak to it, I'm going the route of if he stays out longer than say a minute at stage four, it's going to incinerate him. Something like that which effectively forces him to work at night or from within the shelter of some manner of darkness. And granted, he killed Harkon. I've written characters that casually destroy entire universes with nothing more than a thought, hence why it doesn't seem as much of a power fantasy, at least at first glance for me. Because my typically experience regarding power fantasies are characters who can literally just move the plot from a necessity to a suggestion.

Given all that him killing the sire of an entire vampire clan seems rather inconsequential in my eyes, again, at least from the get-go.

As for the first part, excitement is indeed not the correct term for it, though honestly I have no idea what the correct term is myself. In any case I suppose there's enough investment to keep me writing for some of them, but I can't count the amount of characters I've just left to rot because they no longer interest me. As for what part of myself I imbue, that I do not do. One because it feels dangerously close to self-insert territory, and two because there's not a lot about myself that should be put into something else. Unless you want more edgy characters that is. As for meanness, don't worry about it. Again your points are valid, though again compared to what I have written Arcamor is the least powerful being I've ever thought up. He has weaknesses, he actually has some character, and he can't shatter a universe simply by snapping his fingers. He can also be injured, he'll need to heal himself using Vampiric Drain or feeding, hence why there is a noticeable lack of healing spells in his sheet, and he can't even access his most powerful ability for the majority of the roleplay. At least not if we start out in direct sunlight anyway, and that itself is a threat as I've mentioned.

Finally, touching on the soul gems, I honestly only have them there in case he ever needs to recharge his weapons. It didn't even occur to me to use them for more powerful entities until it was brought up, as again, they were just a logical fallback for his enchanted weapons.

Granted, I might genuinely just make a new character. It honestly doesn't seem like he'll fit even with the above.
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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@ZAVAZggg *low whistle* Okay, I am not qualified to unpack literally any of that.

I will just say that putting a piece of yourself into a character isn't about self-insertion. It's about authenticity. I've never been hijacked from a place that was supposed to protect me, turned into a genetic experiment, and then made to harvest corpses while hiding in vents for my life like my character has. But I have been homeless before, I have had authority figures who were supposed to look after my best interest toss me aside when it was convenient. I have had experiences that while not in any way the same in amplitude to what a girl in Rapture might undergo, are similar on a much smaller scale which I can put into writing her. Whereas a writer with the same concept who had never had those experiences may provide a more wooden take on the concept. If there's none of that in your characters then it becomes very easy to dash off a character sheet, write them for a month, and then toss them aside. And as it relates to a cooperative writer experience, well, if you don't care about your character, why should we?

It should also be noted that "My character isn't god." is not the same thing as "This isn't a power fantasy." Just because technically speaking you've made your character mortal, doesn't mean you haven't given them an extensive amount of power. Mortal, killable, has weaknesses, should be a perquisite for 99% of characters, not given as proof that they aren't overpowered.

But I am not really qualified to give a lecture on writing theory. Here, you might find this helpful.

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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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@Prince of Seraphs
Touching on the care part, while that is part of writing a good story, I don't think I've necessarily written any with that express goal save for the ones that I cannot bring into this roleplay. But even in those cases it was more out of a desire of catharsis, because I had a character idea I wanted to write and then did. For the most part I feel like most of my writings aren't centered around making one care about the character, moreso exploring a concept or telling a story, and the only reason I try to make characters more than planks of wood is because it's a good idea to do so. At least that's what it seems like anyway.

And true, not being a god doesn't also mean that they aren't a power fantasy, I was merely trying to convey the fact that most of the characters I've written or read that I regard to be power fantasies generally are. Not in official works mind you, just on some roleplaying sites and forums in general. Usually characters who aren't literal gods tend to be more fleshed out from what I've seen, or actual characters in other words, rather than a vessel for an inordinate amount of powers. Even if their own power is some form of reality warping or similar.

Lastly, as for writing what I know, again that just results in characters that are typically less empathic and more edgy. Or angry, depending, because that is quite literally what I know. While my life is nowhere near as bad as that of others, some of the things that happened during it combined with most of the ridiculous and stupid things humanity does on a daily basis have shaped me into a largely cynical and pessimistic person. Though I could possibly make this work. I do have an OC of Lucifer I could remix, make him less from Milton and make the adventure something he sees as a potential path to redemption. A way to show that he's done being evil and whatnot.
Hidden 4 yrs ago 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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@ZAVAZggg The key part of a roleplay is that its cooperative. If you write a character with a specific story or specific arc you want to tell then you are effectively discounting any input other characters could have on how yours develops. At that point you may as well be writing a book or a short story. The point of this format is telling a story together.

Like, looking at my character, I'm interested in exploring how trauma at an early age shapes her outlook on life but beyond the basic theme, I'm not deciding how that will play out because maybe the others do something unexpected which causes a gear shift in her arc. The point is ti play off one another, not write separate stories in the same space.

If what you know is constantly being angry, then write someone who is angry. Maybe utilizing those impulses in a space like this where the consequences are fictional will help you deal with them in your life. The meme about D&D secretly being therapy is extremely accurate and applies to this medium in a very similar fashion.
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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@ZAVAZggg The key part of a roleplay is that its cooperative. If you write a character with a specific story or specific arc you want to tell then you are effectively discounting any input other characters could have on how yours develops. At that point you may as well be writing a book or a short story. The point of this format is telling a story together.

Like, looking at my character, I'm interested in exploring how trauma at an early age shapes her outlook on life but beyond the basic theme, I'm not deciding how that will play out because maybe the others do something unexpected which causes a gear shift in her arc. The point is ti play off one another, not write separate stories in the same space.

If what you know is constantly being angry, then write someone who is angry. Maybe utilizing those impulses in a space like this where the consequences are fictional will help you deal with them in your life. The meme about D&D secretly being therapy is extremely accurate and applies to this medium in a very similar fashion.


Hmm. A sound suggestion, but does that not have the potential to put people off as well?
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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@ZAVAZggg Really depends on how you write them. Traditionally the lancer in any story is constantly pissed off but he's still part of the team.
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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Hmm. Well I've been trying to come up with a few ideas, though none have really stuck. A character that's always angry needs a reason to be after all, and because I don't want their reasoning to be a carbon copy of mine, I'll have to think a rather solid one up. So far that is proving to be quite the challange.
Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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They don't always have to be angry. Having a hair trigger temper works just a well.
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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But even that needs a cause, preferably one that isn't too petty as to be unrealistic. Getting triggered over stupidity is a good one, for example, but again this is essentially one of the many things that upsets me here in real life, thus making it a copy really.
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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Alright, after giving it a bit of thought I've decided to withdraw. I just can't come up with a character concept that would both reflect what I know and fit well within a more heroically geared group like this, not fully and not at all points anyway. Thus I wish you all luck, genuinely I do, and I thank you @Prince of Seraphs for helping me identify the flaws in Arcamor for this particular venture at least. But, sadly, I must bid this particular story adieu.
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@Dr Lovecraft I am so sorry, that was not my intention at all.

Maybe it would be a good idea to create an interest thread to drum up some new players?
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Alright, after giving it a bit of thought I've decided to withdraw. I just can't come up with a character concept that would both reflect what I know and fit well within a more heroically geared group like this, not fully and not at all points anyway. Thus I wish you all luck, genuinely I do, and I thank you @Prince of Seraphs for helping me identify the flaws in Arcamor for this particular venture at least. But, sadly, I must bid this particular story adieu.


Dude you don't have to make a character to please people, hell you don't have to work with the team. Be whatever you want, why do you have to be a team player?
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DELETED jdl3932 Sok Il-Seong / (Second Initiation)

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<Snipped quote by ZAVAZggg>

Dude you don't have to make a character to please people, hell you don't have to work with the team. Be whatever you want, why do you have to be a team player?


I've made up my mind as it stands, but I'll not decline an explanation. Now I'd like to clarify that Arcamor would've been a team player. If anything it's because the group would be his best shot at getting back, however long that may take. Not only that but over the course of this discussion I also realized that some of these threats might be enough to get him to stay longer because of how powerful they might be. So he'd not return to Tamriel until things have concluded, simply because doing so would only put everything he's worked to attain in danger.

Now onto why would I want to be a team player, because I don't have to be clearly. Why I want to be a team player is due to interaction, as if I wanted to write Arcamor solo I could actually go back and finish his original story. Something I flaked out on back in like 2018.
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@ZAVAZggg

I absolutely respect your decision, interesting character all around and possibly my favorite so far as I myself love Skyrim. Just know you'll always be welcome if you decide to rejoin.
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Hidden 4 yrs ago Post by Dr Lovecraft
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@Prince of Seraphs
As far as your character goes, she looks great. I can definitely see how the whole insanity thing could prove problematic, but as long as you can find in character reasons to keep her from flipping out on the party, I don't really think it would be an issue. Also, I feel like Omni's shinobi would pair good with your Big Sister, maybe helping to anchor her somewhat. As far as powers go, it really is a case by case basis. For example; with the shinobi, I asked him to get rid of his shadow-clone jutsu on the grounds that he already had a lot of other jutsus that were either wind or medicine based, and I wanted to streamline him a bit. For your character, however, each plasmid is essentially one spell with one function. Sure, they can be used outside of combat, but what they do doesn't really change. Opening doors by shooting lightning at them is essentially the same as unlocking a door by shooting the lock off. All things considered, I think it's totally fine that she would have one of each kind.

As far as all... this goes, I appreciate your concern and the fact that you voiced it in a productive manner. Still, this is a Casual RP. While employing good writing strategies is definitely encouraged, it's not required so long as the poster makes an attempt to post consistently, write enough to give others something to work off of, and not actively ruin anyone's fun. I'm less concerned that this kind of discussion happened, and more that this entire thing started and concluded in the two days that I decided not to check the RP. It's not some unforgivable trespass or anything, I just feel like after the third or fourth post, maybe you should have just waited for me to weigh in. Still, I recognize that you were just trying to help keep things running smoothly. Your apology is accepted, and I hope you have fun once we get a few more people.

@ZAVAZggg
I'll be brief, since we already spoke on discord. Having reviewed your character sheet, I don't really see any problems with your character's backstory or personality. He is a bit Lone-Wolfish, but he's also got that reluctantly-nice thing going on, and between the shinobi and the Big Sister (as well as any other characters that show up), I kind of get the feeling one of those unwanted bonds would start blooming between him and and least one of them. Mechanically, I would have asked you to essentially lock your more powerful form until much later in the RP. Similar to how I planned to lock the Wizzrobe's necromancy until the Magic Book was aquired, I'd have asked that the Vampire Lord form be locked until the Tri-Force of Courage has been put together, since the entire implication in the first game is that Link needs it's power to even contend with Ganon and his Tri-Force piece. If you're still set on withdrawing, I won't try to force you back or anything, but I'd definitely still like to have you in the RP if I can.

@Dark Cloud
If you still want to make an OC, that's totally fine, but I kinda feel like we've narrowed down how the Wizzrobe's powers would work at this point; hostile and illusionary magic until the Magic Book is found, at which point they'll be capable of raising Stalfos and other Wizzrobes. The specifics would still need to be worked out, but the Magic Book doesn't show up until much later, so we can burn that bridge once we've crossed it.

As far as what happened in the OOC; I wouldn't normally include anyone else in it, in fact, I normally prefer for those who aren't involved to stay out of it and not complicate things. However, as the Co-GM, it's your job to keep the peace when I'm not around. After the first three or four posts, you should have stepped in and either made a decision for them, or just said "Hey, look, the GM isn't here right now, let's put a pin in it till they get back." Like I said to Prince of Seraphs, I don't so much have a problem with players discussing this sort of thing in the OOC, that's what it's there for. I'm more concerned that we ended up with an additional two pages in as many days from this discussion alone, and that it ended with someone withdrawing out of concern of not being able to make a character that meshes well with the rest. I appreciate you trying to remain neutral, but if you're going to be the Co-GM, I need to know you won't let this sort of thing happen again. I don't mean to go on and on, it just baffles me that after a full month of nothing, we gain two characters and lose one of them in the two days I took off from the Guild.
i just wanted to play some morrowind, man
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