Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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Hey; for those who have the time to read it, I'd really appreciate feedback on some of my writing; Hopefully deeper then my comma usage.
Read before reading
C refers to chapter, V to current version. IE C1V3 = Chapter 1 Version 3
Read the highest V for the most recent version. I'm keeping all versions to show how I've improved.



Chapter 1






Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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Is there expected to be more? Cause it seemed kind of hap hazardous for something that short, or even just for an intro. I realize that the world itself must be introduced but the focus keeps jumping from one thing to the next, first to the burn boy, next to the cop, then to a bank robbery and back to the burn boy. There's also a number of things mentioned that were entirely failed to explain. What do you mean getting an 'occurrence' when someone gets there powers, why would this be the norm to the point where a cop can straight up say someone was lying if they claim otherwise. How do they know the kid is pyrokinetic? From the looks of it he was pulled out of a burning building so burns would be expected, was there precedent of him controlling fire previously, is there some sort of proof that he has these powers? While the security escorting him is impressive why wouldn't they be wearing fire proof gear, or slap the kid in some sort of cuffs that negate his powers.

Overall it looks like a promising premise but through most of it the writing is focused on the wrong details. Sort of gives the reader a 'huh' reaction and while I can answer most of my own questions none of them are self explanatory which requires me to essentially assume bits and pieces of story which overall just isn't good story telling. You style isn't bad and you have a solid idea but it needs serious ironing out.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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@Prince of Seraphs
I really appreciate the feedback, especially coming from you. You're completely right about the focus of the story, I didn't even notice it before but it does jump all over the place, and I should really avoid that. The bank robber isn't relevant, and he doesn't even offer a bit of exposition, which brings me to what I was trying to avoid. I didn't want to give an exposition dump, and I'm trying to integrate details as best I can. The bank robber was a way to show Sam's helplessness in these situations, but it adds nothing.

Also sorry if moving the focus to the cop (Braden I'm assuming?) as the focal point was a bit jarring, but I couldn't think of another conceivable way to get Sam into the room at the time, and the idea of Sam

Also I may be a bit too optimistic when I'm appreciating that "promising premise" comment a lot.

I was hoping to explain a lot of the questions you held about the universe (and arrest) for the next chapter, though if you think that is not a good idea I'd love to hear your reasoning behind immediately answering these (or alternative ways to present the things that aren't explained) along with any other concerns or comments.

Final note: I was never a fan of power negations via a deus ex machina machine, and am very interested in the alternative of These people can use their powers at almost anytime, and unless someone has a power that uses the deus ex machina superpower of negation then we are saved etc. etc.
Sorry if that last paragraph was a bit of a rant or didn't make a lot of sense.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by TheWendil
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Much like what was said before, the premise definitely seems interesting and I only have a few nitpicks to add. I was initially confused when Braden was mentioned before putting it together that he was the guy Sam was talking to. Furthermore, I also thought the burned boy was going to be the focus of perspective in the story before it switched to Sam. So with those in mind, just make sure you have a consistent point of focus and if you have one central character, make it so that the narrative always follows their perspective. That way others won't be confused and wondering who Braden was (like me). Other than that, I do like the set up.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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Thank you @TheWindel for your feedback! You make some good points, you're right about how I introduce Braden's name, and I'll take that into consideration while also making sure it's clear the story is supposed to be from Sam's perspective. I'm starting the edits right now, and I'll post that as soon as it's at a readable standard.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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Sorry if this is a bit less refined, the grammar and spelling are probably a bit more flawed than the last one. I tried to keep the focus more on Sam, as well as more directly introducing Braden
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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This version I would say is more solid than the previous one. It keeps its focus on Sam which is good but there are still some problems I find. You're using what me and some of my friends refer to as the "Deep End" approach to an intro. Effectively it means that the reader is dumped into the world of the story without understanding of how that world functions and over the course of the first chapter or so the details are spooled out in how the characters talk, interact and the descriptions of the setting. When done well this approach produces incredibly immersive worlds.

The key to that kind of intro is knowing how much to share and how much to keep back, when to give information and when to assume your audience isn't stupid. On this front you're a little bit rocky. For instance, you reveal that the boy is pyrokinetic using phrasing that suggest this is not an uncommon occurrence. From this the audience will assume that this must be a world where part of the population are meta humans. Following that though you blow a sentence on entirely pointless information.

The psychiatrist had called it "pyrokinetics" or something reminiscent of that phrase.


This not only is completely unnecessary but it makes your main character look a bit incompetent. If I were to ask a random person on the street what Pyrokinetic means eight out of ten people would be able to answer correctly. So if the majority of people reading this are like "pyrokinetic, yeah he can control fire" the fact that your character is only sort of aware of the word's meaning will make people think he's a little bit stupid.

The next problem is the report Sam is writing down.

"A call went up around an 13:30 reporting a burning building. An older lady who lived across the street from the building.
13:45 - a young boy was found in the wreckage of a burning building. The first to arrive on the scene observed him keeping the heat away from himself using some sort of supernatural ability. Firefighters carefully moved the boy, letting paramedics on scene treat him as best they could. Unfortunately an order from the FBI prevented them from bringing anyone with supposed supernatural powers from being treated at a normal hospital.
14:00 - Soon after being treated the FBI showed up and began questioning the boy. Though nothing has been disclosed officially by the FBI (and probably won't be) a firefighter heard them discussing the burned down building. Not ground breaking in the least.
14:20 - The FBI radioed for and received backup as well as transport for the boy. Armed soldiers showed up and escorted the boy to the police station in a armored vehicle. Despite his wounds. This kind of treatment of suspects is very inhumane, and calls for a review of how these people are being treated."


This isn't a bad way of revealing information but you have to remember one thing, Sam is not aware of the reader which means that you can't have him write down something for the sake of the reader that otherwise would be obvious. For instance the note about an FBI order preventing meta humans from getting treatment at regular hospitals would to a police detective be common knowledge. Having him write it down like that becomes sort of clunky. It would be like if I was writing a science paper on the various types of clouds and made a note of the fact that the sky is blue. It is information that while relevant should be too obvious a thing for the detective to make a physical note of.

I was wondering. He writes this whole thing down on his notepad. Is this an official report to be submitted to his boss or his own personal notes? If it is an official report a number of things about it seem rather off, like mentioning the rough treatment of the prisoner or the note about the hospitals. If it is for his personal notes then it is far too orderly a lengthy. If he is taking notes for himself they should be short concise bullet points, if he is filling about a report they should be detailed but relate only to the facts of the case and nothing more.

I'm going to once again bring up the subject of the 'occurrences'.

Sam nodded slowly, his frown lingering. "So the kid is a liar, on at least one count. Everyone gets 'occurrences' or 'visions' when they get their powers, whatever they really are. We know this pretty well from multiple sources, not least of which the Doc. He isn't an exception; he is probably fibbing as much as he can, as if it will save him. Every police station we know of got the same briefing. Occurrences seem to be tied with how people get their powers. Strange visions, that other people with powers can see if they're nearby." A long sigh left Sam's lips, as he glanced in the direction the boy had disappeared to. "You gonna talk to him? Or are you gonna make me do it?"


Firstly much like the report the introduction of the occurrences is very clunky. Presumably this precinct has dealt with metas quite often based on how Sam talks about his work nowadays. Which means that what an occurrence is should be common knowledge. There shouldn't be a need for Sam to define what they are if they are so integral to the meta power gaining process. It would be like if a cop in the middle of a briefing took a couple sentences to define what "motive" is. It would just seem strange.

With regards to this paragraph I have a number of questions. Someone had the chance to question the boy and what they asked was "when you got your powers did strange visions accompany them?" and not "did you burn your parents house to the ground killing both of them even accidentally?" If he has yet to be formally questioned or put through booking it seems to mean that whether or not he saw visions when he got his powers would be the last priority of the police. It is more important to find out if he is the culprit or if there is an arsonist still on the loose.

The next question I have is why? The occurrences from my best guesses are one step in the process of someone getting their powers. That's fine but why are they relevant? Why would it matter if the boy say strange sights before he got his powers? It's not like it would change his predicament and from what I can tell the occurrences stop so it isn't as though the metas are all delusional after getting their abilities. It seems like an insignificant detail. Like if before getting superpowers someone suffers pain in their right elbow. Sure that can be a thing, not really important but it can be a thing. In this case though it would be like if that were the case and the first things the cops ask a meta they bring in is "Did you get a pain in your right elbow? I know you did boy, you can't lie to me. Admit that your elbow hurt when you got your powers. Admit it!" What's the point? It won't make a difference after the fact and I can't imagine it would help in any way with apprehending a meta unless the meta was going through it at the time. And in fact the only way that would be truly relevant is in a court trial the meta could be held NCR "Not Criminally Responsible" if they were to hurt someone in that state.

How can the police prove that these occurrences happen 100% of the time with ever meta of every power at every age? Why is this 'Doc' such an expert that referring to his thoughts on the matter seems to refute all other argument? Why couldn't the boy be an exception to the "everyone gets visions" rule? Is it really so set in stone and so researched that it is a concrete impossibility that he might have gotten his powers without an occurrences? More importantly why would he lie about such a thing? Sam says "he is probably fibbing as much as he can, as if it will save him." Why would lying about these visions save him? They already have proof that he's a pryo so what relevance do the visions hold?

My last note is about your characters. Specifically Sam as he is the one that is given the most focus. He seems kind of bland. He's an old school police detective, his clothes are a bit shabby and he liked working as a cop before metas were a problem. That's really all that we know. Past that he is the exposition mobile and nothing more. Try to write from inside his head a little bit more. When you talk about how the treatment of the prisoner was inhumane at the end of the notes say something about how that makes Sam feel. Is he upset on the prisoner's behalf? Sympathetic to their pain? Annoyed that the law is being bent by fellow law enforcement? Enjoying seeing someone in pain? Give the reader something to work with. An appearance wouldn't be a bad idea either. We get more information on what the boy looks like than Sam. Is Sam black? White? Tall? Short? Fat? Skinny? Mid fifties? Early twenties? Eye color? Hair color? Pretty much anything would be a boon to the story telling process. Right now I have an image of a middle aged man, his hair just starting to turn grey who still remembers the golden years of police work that are now behind him.

You've got a good start here but in your rush to tell the story you are forgetting all of the little things that make the story worth reading.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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@Prince of Seraphs Every time I read your critiques, I try to justify the things I'm doing in my head. Fortunately, you don't just point out the flaws, you say why the way they would be flaws, and I end up agreeing with you cause you're right.

•You're definitely right about "occurrences" as right now they are completely insignificant, and not only that, the way I was trying to introduce them just made my writing clunkier and clunkier.

•Heh. Sam is totally an exposition dump on two legs. His character is bland, for the reasons you stated: I didn't consider fleshing out his character since I really wanted to explore the world. I'll do better.

•Pyrokinetics was a bit too heavy handed, your right. Even if the word is Pyrokinesis, that was indeed a very poorly thought out sentence. People get the gist, no need to dump the exposition too heavily.

•I'll fix his notes

Thank I really can't thank you enough for the feedback. The fact that you took the time out to help me so directly is very altruistic, and I appreciate it so much. I just need a mini version of you that can improve my writing 24/7.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Lady Seraphina
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Thank I really can't thank you enough for the feedback. The fact that you took the time out to help me so directly is very altruistic, and I appreciate it so much. I just need a mini version of you that can improve my writing 24/7.


Honestly I don't mind this kind of work.

My advice for the characters would be try to think a bit about who they are before you starting writing them. How they react under pressure, what they like to do normally, maybe a few significant events in their lives that shape the way they look at the world. If you can understand who you are writing about it becomes infinitely easier to get the correct information across. Also helps with the tone of the story.

If I'm being honest it is sort of a relief to have someone appreciate my critiques. Most people just get annoyed that I'm being overly harsh because, being the tactless bastard I am, I don't pull my punches when I look over material. If I see something wrong I will give it to you straight.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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@Prince of Seraphs If you stay up a bit longer (Or eat breakfast next to your computer? Idk your timezone) I can present the next version. Also I do not find you tactless in the least, and I'd rather be told "This is what's wrong" then my SO's "Your so good at writing!" I appreciate compliments but they don't help me improve as much as criticism, and don't worry I will work on the character.
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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This one is pretty good I hope
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Eklispe
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Bumping.
1x Thank Thank
Hidden 8 yrs ago 8 yrs ago Post by solokolos
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This was a long time coming and a lot of rewrites. I'll include a hider at the end of the story with notes about what I should fix from a 'friend.' I rewrote what he mentioned so I could keep it in mind while writing. This took forever, and fixed most of the issues I found.
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