Modern + Medieval?

[NekoMizu]

I am in the understanding that steampunk is like a future/past mix, but what about modern/past mix? Heck, what about all three combined? Would those still be considered steampunk or would it have a new name entirely? Has the idea of mixing modern days with medieval ages been done. Probably. If so, then can you tell what has done this?

[Aix]

A lot of current Japanese fantasy fiction seem to be a mix of modern day and medieval fantasy, generally explained by magic significantly raising the quality of life. Major examples of this that come to mind are Fairy Tail and Re:Zero.

[Dinh AaronMk]

The idea of mixing the medieval ages and the present is pretty incompatible. Why bother stabbing shit with a sword when you can shoot it from a half mile away? Why put a guy on horse-back to deliver a message when it's quicker to call the person up on the telephone?

You also have to stop to consider that from a societal perspective it's harder to justify feudalism in the modern world. Between the then and now you have nearly a millennium (depending on the beginning reference year and now) of time. You as well have to consider that for that period there was little or no common national identity. If you were born in a village, you would stay in that village and it's rare you'd even leave the county let alone have a clear idea of the wider world beyond the farm. You would only be significantly aware of and attached to the township the same way as you would be for a nation now; only significant events might force you from home (forced conscription for example).

The big part of the modern world is the formation of and holding of a national identity. You don't identify by your township or village or city anymore but you identify with the broader nation. And with that development of a national identity questions arise over the well-being of common citizens or a broadening of prospects for ambitious people either military or intellectual. Nationalism opens the door to such things like National Liberalism which either means people become so aware of the concentrated control of property in the small class of people on top they either revolt to break down the land holdings of the feudal crown of society to make the King's Lands public lands. From here government becomes a constitutional monarchy or a parliamentary republic.

This change can also be facilitated by the development of technologies that make it easier and cheaper to travel or communicate across the realm and over a generation of using and deploying this people will quickly realize their world is broader than it was during their father and grandfather's times and will likely facilitate the rise of a sense of National Liberalism.

Really, the incompatibilities of melding a medieval world with knights and swords with a modern society leads to so much internal universal conflict it would explode on itself before the plot happens. Even those institutions we might call "feudal" in the modern world have long shed their medieval aspects to be modern authoritarian dictatorships/absolute monarchies. There's no feudalism left in those, just bureaucratic nepotism. Or you would at the least be pushing a universe like 17th century Europe; but that's still the transitional period from old-world dynastic states to the modern nation-state and doesn't really reconcile the two.

Steampunk works because it uses technology not far detached from the 19th century and uses the trappings of the 19th century. It's not really a mix past-future because a lot of the cliches and tropes in the genres are dependent on a century-long period where the general technology used was developed and deployed (steam power, gatling guns, airships, trains). It's not much of a stretch for artists and writers to re-purpose Victorian-era technology and aesthetic to build a fantasy world where steam-power plays a much more central role in a society that looks or functions as a modern of futuristic world.

[BrokenPromise]

I am in the understanding that steampunk is like a future/past mix, but what about modern/past mix? Heck, what about all three combined? Would those still be considered steampunk or would it have a new name entirely? Has the idea of mixing modern days with medieval ages been done. Probably. If so, then can you tell what has done this?

@NekoMizu

If we're going to be super duper technical...

While Steampunk is considered a sub-genre of science fiction, it often takes place in an alternate past where industrial steam powered machinery progressed a lot further and became mainstream. So it's not science fiction because it takes place in the future, but because these worlds rely on steam powered machinery that never existed. Science fiction is actually defined by the scientific advancements of it's world, which are usually in the distant future.

As for a modern/Sci-fi/Fantasy mix, the closest things I can think of is Magic Realism.

As Aix said, the Japanese love to do modern fantasy. It's hard to look at an anime list and not see at least one like that.

[Gentlemanvaultboy]

Watch A Knight's Tale. It's a really love it or hate it film and you'll realize whether you love it or hate it in the very first scene as you watch a bunch of medieval peasants at a joust pound out the beat to Queen's We Will Rock You

[NekoMizu]

A lot of current Japanese fantasy fiction seem to be a mix of modern day and medieval fantasy, generally explained by magic significantly raising the quality of life. Major examples of this that come to mind are Fairy Tail and Re:Zero.

@Aix

Would you really consider re:zero modern? I mean, it starts off in modern Japan, yes and there is a phone, but besides that there's nothing related to modern day at all. I'm talking about modern or like maybe a little bit in the past technology preset in the world that is mostly medieval. Not sure much about Fairy Tail, since I've only seen one episode.

The idea of mixing the medieval ages and the present is pretty incompatible. Why bother stabbing shit with a sword when you can shoot it from a half mile away? Why put a guy on horse-back to deliver a message when it's quicker to call the person up on the telephone?

@Dinh AaronMk

"Why stab shit with a sword when you can shoot from a half mile away?" I never said there had to be guns, just any modern technology, computers for example. It doesn't have to be completely modern. Plus why stab shit with a sword when you can get a bow and shoot shit from a half mile away?

<Snipped quote by NekoMizu>

If we're going to be super duper technical...

While Steampunk is considered a sub-genre of science fiction, it often takes place in an alternate past where industrial steam powered machinery progressed a lot further and became mainstream. So it's not science fiction because it takes place in the future, but because these worlds rely on steam powered machinery that never existed. Science fiction is actually defined by the scientific advancements of it's world, which are usually in the distant future.

As for a modern/Sci-fi/Fantasy mix, the closest things I can think of is Magic Realism.

As Aix said, the Japanese love to do modern fantasy. It's hard to look at an anime list and not see at least one like that.

@BrokenPromise

I personally do not understand what steampunk is, I just get from what I've seen that it is past/future mix. Is a modern/future/past even possible to do? I understand that there are a lot of modern fantasy, but not in the way that I am thinking of.

[NekoMizu]

Watch A Knight's Tale. It's a really love it or hate it film and you'll realize whether you love it or hate it in the very first scene as you watch a bunch of medieval peasants at a joust pound out the beat to Queen's We Will Rock You

@Gentlemanvaultboy

That sounds amazing not gonna lie.

[Gentlemanvaultboy]

Wait, I thought of a better example that you're never going to believe.

Shrek. What you're asking for is Shrek. Specifically Shrek 2, but there were elements of it in the first movie as well.

[BrokenPromise]

@NekoMizu I suggest you do some research on google about what people are discussing here. Particularly Steampunk and the stuff Aix was talking about. you don't need to read the entire wiki page, but it'll help you understand what a genre is. Steampunk is most certainly not future anything though, despite having technology that has never and will never be invented.

You also need to state what "the way you are thinking of" representing a "modern/future/past" world is. I've seen post-apocalyptic settings where it's the future, but due to resource shortages people rely on modern and old technology. Is that what you're talking about?

[NekoMizu]

@NekoMizu I suggest you do some research on google about what people are discussing here. Particularly Steampunk and the stuff Aix was talking about. you don't need to read the entire wiki page, but it'll help you understand what a genre is. Steampunk is most certainly not future anything though, despite having technology that has never and will never be invented.

You also need to state what "the way you are thinking of" representing a "modern/future/past" world is. I've seen post-apocalyptic settings where it's the future, but due to resource shortages people rely on modern and old technology. Is that what you're talking about?

@BrokenPromise

I'm just thinking about a fantasy world that simply has future technology in some regards, modern technology in others, and medieval/past technology as well and it taking place in one of those eras. Most likely past or future. If we're talking about a mix of all three, anyway.

If we're talking about mix of modern and medieval I mean a fantasy world that takes place in a medieval type era, where swords and bows are the most prominent types of weapons (as well as magic), but has modern/semi-modern technology already set in the world, so not taken in by the main character like in Re:zero or No Game No Life. Think of like SAO or Log Horizon, but the game world has phones, computers, and other modern technology.

I'll read about it to get a general idea of what steampunk is, yeah. Thank you for the suggestion.

[BrokenPromise]

Doing future stuff in a mid-evil setting would be tough. In that regard, i agree with @Dinh AaronMk. Technology from the future tends to be built on other technology. You can't just have a computer, you need a way to power it. So now you have power stations, but you need to be able to build the power stations. You then need people to run the power stations, and people who can build/acquire everything it needs. You want phones or internet on top of that? Now we need to be able to create cable, run cable, and people to understand all of this. A far simpler solution would be just to make a device that resembles a computer that neatly fits into the fantasy setting. Maybe there's a tablet with runes etched into it that rests in front of a lake, and the lake's reflection changes as "commands" are entered in when runes are pressed.

Dystopia is another genre you might be interested in. This genre deals with crumbling societies that can feel mid-evil, but posses both magic and some advanced technology. Hunger games is a Dystopia world.

[Gentlemanvaultboy]

You could use semaphore towers the way Discworld does to make all its computer programming and internet jokes.

[Dinh AaronMk]

"Why stab shit with a sword when you can shoot from a half mile away?" I never said there had to be guns, just any modern technology, computers for example. It doesn't have to be completely modern. Plus why stab shit with a sword when you can get a bow and shoot shit from a half mile away?

@Gentlemanvaultboy

Because plate armor with the padding can negate the effects of a long-range arrow and the knight can keep slogging through a reign of arrows. But a .32 caliber rifle round can certainly punch a hole in metal and kill the man inside.

It also comes around to how at the point we start shooting guns mobility starts becoming an issue and the size of armies makes body-armor for everyone a more expensive feet than needed. And a man with a gun can kill a guy more reliably from a mile than a person firing a bow, and lay out a more constant rate of fire in the modern era.

Watch A Knight's Tale. It's a really love it or hate it film and you'll realize whether you love it or hate it in the very first scene as you watch a bunch of medieval peasants at a joust pound out the beat to Queen's We Will Rock You

@Gentlemanvaultboy

The thing is with Knight's Tale is that it uses Queen the same way Shrek uses Queen: to create a disconnect between the scene and reality in order to make a joke about it. But where-as Shrek also uses the medieval world with modern stuff to make one giant joke about modern life and fairy tale, Knight's Tale is much more strictly medieval.

Which is probably something to stop and consider: this sort of thing is usually done to be the set-piece of a comedy. If you're trying to make a serious work with this it ain't going to work because you're going to find yourself forced to explain or take seriously the awkwardness, where as in a comedic environment you can brush it all aside and turn it into a joke to expose some incongruity or awkwardness with the modern world itself.

[Dinh AaronMk]

A far simpler solution would be just to make a device that resembles a computer that neatly fits into the fantasy setting. Maybe there's a tablet with runes etched into it that rests in front of a lake, and the lake's reflection changes as "commands" are entered in when runes are pressed.

@BrokenPromise

At this point we're probably not going the route of medieval-modern like OP is proposing but general pop-fantasy. Something like this too may not be able to proliferate among the common people like it does in the modern world only lending to that more and not changing the paradigm of society so that it's like a modern society.

It would be like The Witcher, it handles the medieval society really well and manages to have blended in anachronisms associated with the modern world. But yet it's still very much a medieval fantasy world.