Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[Penny]

Most people who take opiates do so responsibly ergo there should be zero regulations on there sale and distribution. Or whatever other simile you want to dream up.

It would be refreshing to see gun advocates just admit that they feel that masturbating to their firearm fetish is worth the occasional pile of dead children. Own it peeps.

[Vera]

masturbating to their firearm fetish

@Penny

You better be reading the 2nd amendment in there young man!

[POOHEAD189]

So, what they're trying to do is spread fear and misinformation. So I don't want to give them pats on the back for shouting with passion, since they have no evidence, policy and/or sense to back it up.

@SleepingSilence

I don't believe that is what they are trying to do, even if it's the result.

I dunno. I mean I get what you're saying here and there's a valid emotional anchor to it, and you're not wrong for that. It's just.... the left is railing against the NRA. Dana Loesch went to CNN's town-hall/circus and sat through some disgusting rhetoric (from the 'trying' left), and like.... hang on, here's a list of all the mass-murderers in history who were NRA members:

Frankly I've gotten used to the lashing-out, because it happens all the goddamn time (not only from the left, that's just where I notice it because I'm biased). I'm not judging anyone for lashing out after a bunch of kids got fucking murdered. I'm also, ya know, I'm not stoked on legislating that lash-out when it's so blatantly misguided. Like.... we just watched as three armed cops sat outside the school and let a bunch of kids die, and the response is "Let's take away guns, so that only THOSE SAME COPS can stop a killer?" Really? And I already feel bad about wording that as strongly as I did (which isn't that strong TBH), this is an emotional moment, feel that shit, I don't mean to condescend. Just saying. My answer's gonna be no, when we get to the part where they're pitching a "solution." Heads up on that.

School shootings have gone up since we made them "gun-free zones." I don't think it's insane to talk about letting teachers arm themselves to protect their students (provided we're also talking about training the volunteers).

@mdk

I'm not arguing against you there. Literally every since progressive thing in the past 4 years that has happened has been illogical and unfounded, except 2 things. Gay Marriage, and the Oregon Domestic Violence Gun Ban. Other than those two, everything has been handled sloppily and it's all just been one huge emotional response. Like Kneeling for the National Anthem. I completely realize why they did it and why the left supported it, but it also solved nothing and was meaningless. All it did was make most American's think "Black people dislike America." Leftists are abysmal at...well, what they do.

However, you have to give them credit for actually trying. They have good intentions. Conservatives don't do jack shit. The only thing they have done is try to make everything difficult for Obama for 8 years, and changing Healthcare to be worse. Everything they do is to be anti-liberal, whereas Liberals are trying to make the world a better place, even if they suck at it (and become the judgemental fascists they themselves profess to hate sometimes, at least judging from facebook and tumblr).

Their gun policies will probably do nothing, but God they still at least have empathy for people dying.

[Penny]

Everyone was always in favor of gay marriage now that it is politically necessary to have been so. Eventually it will be the same with trans people and poly marriage.

[POOHEAD189]

Everyone was always in favor of gay marriage now that it is politically necessary to have been so.

@Penny

I feel like that's the political equivalent of being like "I'm not racist, but..."

[SleepingSilence]

@POOHEAD189 Who isn't? By going "Don't you care that 17 bodies hit the floor, you disgust me! You want to fuck guns while more people will die!" Sounds like fear mongering to me...and it's not even sarcasm by a lot of people espousing it.

But what you believe vs what's right in front of anyone to see. Misinformation is every single thing I've thing. From the 18 mass shooting lie. The AR-15 and all the nonsense surrounding that. NBC showing off a goddamn shotgun, to explain what an AR-15 looks like. MSNBC claiming to not arm teachers because of "faster bullets." CNN being CNN. So many ill-informed liars on television and social media.

I want you to direct me to a single person, a single person. That's advocating for specific gun legislation, isn't spending their time bullying companies or blaming the governor while kissing the terrible sheriff's arsh. And hasn't spread a single bit of outright misinformation. I haven't found that guy.

Because the only honest leftists in this argument, as far as I'm concerned are the ones that just want to admit they just want to repeal the 2nd/bans all guns. (And only allow police and military that "right") That's an ideology I at least understand.

Or if you find that a literal impossible task. What exact/specific gun control/regulations do you propose enacting to prevent shootings like these?

[Penny]

I feel like that's the political equivalent of being like "I'm not racist, but..."

@POOHEAD189

How do you mean?

[Penny]

I feel like that's the political equivalent of being like "I'm not racist, but..."

@POOHEAD189

How do you mean?

[SleepingSilence]

@Penny Is that a victory in your eye? And if you have the basic mindset of "what people believe, is their 'own' truth". Because to me it just makes the slippery slope fallacy, no longer a fallacious argument to make.

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

How do you mean?

@Penny

To claim they were for gay marriage so they can continue with the bigoted thing they were going to say anyway :P

@SleepingSilence
I think you need to reread what I said. I stated that I don't think what is happening is effective. However, conservatives don't try to solve it with... anything.

[Penny]

Is gay marriage a victory in my opinion? Absolutely!

[SleepingSilence]

>Redacted because sarcasm might be a little too bitter for my own taste.

Edit: Or what we call, identity politics. In give someone an inch, they'll ask for a mile. (aka. If you're getting into an argument with someone who others you. You aren't going to win. Ever.)

[SleepingSilence]

@POOHEAD189 Practice doesn't make perfect. If you practice the wrong way, you just suck worse. And treading the same ground, and not even getting simple facts correct when pushing a narrative, isn't "trying". It's laziness. Plain and simple.

I've seen plenty of conservatives make proposals. Here's one for instance. The suggestion, no one of the right isn't coming up with ideas, is ironically itself. Just misinformation.

nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-contro…

[Penny]

<Snipped quote by Penny>

To claim they were for gay marriage so they can continue with the bigoted thing they were going to say anyway :P

@POOHEAD189

Ah I see that would fall more under moral licensing. What I meant is that in the future people who fought against gay marriage will claim they were always for it (as it becomes less socially acceptable to express homophobia).

[SleepingSilence]

Is gay marriage a victory in my opinion? Absolutely!

@Penny

<.< I mean if we really got into "how" it was passed. Like Roe V Wade, we'd actually have to write cohesive posts. So, I'll just add. I'll assume the not answer of the question in it's entirety is itself the answer. But just to clarify. Do you support the direction of supporting polygamy or otherwise, and think all of it will be pushed to normalcy and that itself is a good thing?

[Penny]

On the subject of gun control it seems like the Senior Bush signed that ban that doesn't really ban FN-FALs so its not like Republicans have never done any gun regulation.

It is a little hard to see how a regulation which would actually help would ever be considered constitutional. A system like Australia uses for example would probably have a positive effect but it would almost certainly be eviscerated by the courts (even if angels came down from heaven and forced congress, the senate and the president to sign off on it - presumably at gun point).

[Penny]

Do you support the direction of supporting polygamy or otherwise, and think all of it will be pushed to normalcy and that itself is a good thing?

@SleepingSilence

I'm for polyamorus relationships being legally recognized yes. I'd frankly rather we abolished marriage as a civil institution all together and handled all the legal rights we currently assign to marriage by a civil union.

[SleepingSilence]

It is a little hard to see how a regulation which would actually help would ever be considered constitutional. A system like Australia uses for example would probably have a positive effect but it would almost certainly be eviscerated by the courts (even if angels came down from heaven and forced congress, the senate and the president to sign off on it - presumably at gun point).

@Penny

Well here's hoping you never claim, you don't want to ban/take guns away.

Australia's "system" was a mandatory gun buyback program that forced people to give up their weapons and it didn't drop crime in the slightest. (I guess even it's own government admitted it's failings.)

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3562714/…

To spare everyone a link to the huffington post. Let me just post a part of an article...

"As the United States grappled with yet another senseless mass shooting, this time in Las Vegas, Australia was dealing with a gun problem of its own.

Namely, just exactly what to do with more than 26,000 firearms surrendered to authorities during a three-month national gun amnesty."

Yeah you can't "like the 2nd amendment" and think even for a split second that we should be more like Australia. Sorry, that's my own personal line in the sand...

bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/10/21/aust…

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

I'm for polyamorus relationships being legally recognized yes. I'd frankly rather we abolished marriage as a civil institution all together and handled all the legal rights we currently assign to marriage by a civil union.

@Penny

I'd prefer the latter too. ^-^' But, yeah you have no idea (neither do I for that matter.) how bad for society that would be...and nearly impossible for the government to keep track of, while keeping marriage law the way it is...

So how far is too far for you? Incest? People marrying their 3DS? (if only this was a joke.) How about sex? I feel like when you start going..."Yeah, polygamy is probably sustainable and mentally healthy." I don't even understand why'd you deny anyone love at that point. Go full progressive. For lack of better term.

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

Ah I see that would fall more under moral licensing. What I meant is that in the future people who fought against gay marriage will claim they were always for it (as it becomes less socially acceptable to express homophobia).

@Penny

Ah, I getcha. Very true^^

So how far is too far for you? Incest? People marrying their 3DS? (if only this was a joke.) How about sex? I feel like when you start going..."Yeah, polygamy is probably sustainable and mentally healthy." I don't even understand why'd you deny anyone love at that point. Go full progressive. For lack of better term.

@SleepingSilence

LooooooooooooL.

I feel like when we go past gay territory, we should go by what psychologists recommend. Polygamy is already proven to be somewhat unhealthy, however I am not against the rights for it. I think Incest is unhealthy mentally and physically for a child.