Mature / 18+ Tag - What do you think when you see it?

[Light the Dark]

What do you use the 18+ tag for?

When seeing that tag, what do you think it means?

Personally, when I mention 18+, I don't mean a smut-fest of an RP. I mean that there is potential for darker themes, adult situations*, and potential (not guaranteed) 'romance' scenes. I also use it to filterer out under-18 individuals, because I'm not comfortable playing in a 1x1 RP with someone under the age of 18.

Others, however, do use the 18+ tag for plots that are more explicitly 'romantic' in nature.

Should there be two separate tags? Or should both uses fall under the same tag?

---

*damn taxes.

[BrokenPromise]

I think a tag is a tag. I know it was put there by mahz so that the smut dogs in 1x1 could let everyone know what they wanted. However, I'm also aware that people are using it for any situation where they want to see people 18+. Which includes everything from dark themes to writing ability. In layman terms, 18+ is a tag that could mean anything. As a result, has lost all of its meaning. Speaking for outside the 1x1 section, as I don't really enjoy that style of RP and don't watch that section.

As someone who occasionally enjoys gritty stories but doesn't like smut, yes, I think there could be a smut tag that more or less gets the point across. That wouldn't really fix the problem with 18+ being too broad however.

[Light the Dark]

An age range tag of sorts might be better. For example 'Teen' 'Young Adult' 'Adult'. Then again, we might have the problem of what the 'Adult' tag can mean. Still, an age range tag could also be used for giving a general sense of the age of the characters in the RP.

I do agree though that it has lost its meaning - or, rather, its meaning is a bit of a grey area. The official description of '18+' is 'Involves adult themes'. Depending on how you interpret that, it's the difference between an 'R' rated movie and a 'XXX' one.

I think it's an interesting issue, and love to see some more discussion on it.

[BrokenPromise]

Another thing I question is the 18+ tag's ability to ward off young players. Because in truth, it only wards off HONEST young players. People who are drawn to gory movies and the like because it's just outside their age rating will flock to an 18+ tag.

[NuttsnBolts]

18+ simply means you must be 18 years or older to apply. For people like myself I tend to stick with partners that are older than 18 as they are usually more mature and comfortable with topics of drugs, sex, violence, and adult themes.

Personally I don't believe a tag 'range' is really worth investing in as this is afterall a roleplaying site, not a teen dating app; plus we are only talking about a 5 year variance. There's no reason to split that age group for reasons that have no impact on the writing level of the player.

[Ellri]

finally a decent discussion thread again... been too long since that in this section...

well, the 18+ tag can be interpreted in many ways...

First of all, there's that obvious and simple bit about featuring mature themes. the basic definition, so to speak.

but what are mature themes? Is it just smutty playtime? Or does include things like brutal slaughter, rough violence, soul-wrenching horror and such?

If you're gonna look at it from the sexual perspective only, then it can be a misleading tag. Why, you might ask? Well, the sexual aspect of it should be based around "age of consent" which is the age people in a given area are considered old enough to be able to give proper consent to their partner(s) when engaging in sexual activity. However, the number for that around the world varies from country to country, or even internally in individual countries. some places have it as low as 12, others as high as 19. (see this map for more details. _{light yellow is 12, light to dark blue is 13-16, dark yellow 17, light green 18, dark green 19, orange varies internally, pink requires marriage for consent, gray is missing data)}

For obvious reasons, with how much that varies, one can't find a single number that is "right", not legally. Going for what feels comfortable to participants, it is almost as hard, as people tend to reflect that based on their own age. Not to mention, people mature at different rates. People who are well above eighteen might easily have other parameters for considering people properly mature, and there's lots of 12-13-year olds who think they're very mature.

in the end, an arbitrary number is easier to deal with. If you go for age of Majority instead, the numbers vary from "up to fifteen" (one country) to twenty-one (13 countries plus parts of US). But the number in this tag, 18, includes 129 different countries (or parts thereof), which is a pretty significant portion of the world.

However Age of Majority is not just related to sexual interaction. its related to all sorts of other legal factors. Therefore, the tag too reflects that based on its label, both if one interprets the legal stuff the way we do, and if one is going to use the majority of the world for it.

Later on, if the system for hiding 18+-tagged RPs from the sight of those whose ages are not "verified" (however that will be done is another discussion entirely), it could be worth considering having a separate tag for the players who most of all want to RP sexual interactions, and for those who simply desire to explore other themes that need a certain emotional maturity. But so long as the system to hide anything based on tag is not yet coded, having a single tag for anything that requires maturity is sufficient.

[CrypticCupcake]

New here, but I'd think it's exactly what it appears to be. A tag the let people know that the content of an rp is unsuitable for under 18s.

It's just like if they give a film an R rating.

[FreeElk]

Even if there were tags for smut I doubt most people would put it down straight off. Personally, if there were to be any erotic scenes, I would like a build up to that point - something I feel an RP tagged as smut wouldn't offer - and I expect the majority of female RPers are the same.

Tagging the RP as smut would draw, as a majority, sexually frustrated boys who are hoping to RP with the fairer sex but instead find themselves in Elberta around festival time*.

Sure adult content does suggest some of this - rather than spicing the role play up with filling out your council tax forms and mortgage meetings at the bank - but to a lesser extent.

*Elberta holds a huge sausage festival every year.

[ArenaSnow]

The initial design caters to those with a more steamy idea of what they want, but I treat it as anything that requires a mature eye to see and do properly.

[UltikanaRe]

I think the 18+ tag is generally applied too liberally in my opinion. If a kid wants to 'git sum' then there's (rightfully IMO) no verification system to check and for every partner that asks for a pic (which I've never seen) there's a score that won't. If somebody under 18 can pass as 18 through writing, they will.

Meanwhile this misuse means that people who just want to filter out smut but are OK with violence or whatever else people happen to consider 'adult content' these days (which is completely arbitrary anyhow unless you're dealing very specifically with pornography (Which is strictly the representation in books, magazines, photographs, films, and other media of scenes of sexual behavior that are erotic or lewd and are designed to arouse sexual interest, which has a whole bunch of complicated points like 'designed to arouse sexual interest' which has led to a lot of historical vagaries in cases, although usually in child porn cases specifically the definition is applied broadly*). Note that this has nothing to do with violence or drugs, and really anything at the point of being considered pornographic would be exclusively in PM since it isn't allowed on the main site. If that is why the tag is there for you, specifically that, absolutely keep it there. I'm also not the type that likes these RPs, so it's useful for people who want to filter that out.

But the rest? I don't think it's necessary or something that provides any real benefit. There's plenty of adults that don't like dealing with real world bullshit (i.e. violence, discrimination, etc.) and should avoid that roleplay anyhow, and perhaps there are some (if not many) children that can handle it. My strategy has been to include a rule saying that mature topics are dealt with in this RP including some vile things and if that's not your thing this may not be your thing. And if you don't deal with the topics maturely, the door's there.

I think dealing with the topics in terms of requiring sensitive sends away more immature people than the 18+ tag ever could. Of course, with age, I personally tend to adopt a 'don't ask don't tell policy' since I don't really partake in anything strictly (or, really, liberally) pornographic and no child should technically be here under 13 anyhow (at least without direct parental consent), and beyond that I'd rather not people have to watch things or 17 year olds feel particularly unwelcome due to any pretenses of needing to keep everything PG-13.

But that's me. Maybe I'm off-base for you lot, but the policy has worked for me.

[Bishop]

When I see 18+ the first thing that crosses my mind is the word "smut" in capital letters *SMUT* then I remember the site rules and the next best thing that comes to mind is "GORE" but then I remember that you are ordinary people and not gore fetishist and the final thing that I get out of that is "that there's gonna be some cuts and bruises along the way" and also "you will kill imaginary NPCs...it may traumatize users under 18" _{you were warned}

The tag is a joke, worthless. In fact I might say that something which claims to be restricted for younger audiences is a stronger magnet for that group age.

So, with that out of the way... anyone want to be my sexual partner in 1v1 perverse gratifications? FEMAHELES ONLY! Oh and, I will be using that +18 tag, *wink* *wink*.

[ArenaSnow]

Reading a post asking for females only is like reading a post with an 18+ tag, it's just begging for someone who isn't in either category to come in. So there's that point. But it's a wee off center for this discussion. Perhaps the next thread...

[GodOfWar]

I'll have to somewhat agree with both Bishop's and ArenaSnow's points. The 18+/Mature tag is there to indicate that the subject matter of a Roleplay takes part in more adult matters, but can in no way blocks those who are under 18. As well, it has been used most relevantly in only two places; roleplays partaking in smut and those partaking in gory scenes.

Those two kinds of roleplays are obviously 18+, but what if one wanted to make a roleplay concerning the applications of philosophy? Or the topic of political and systematic pressures in a downgrading society? A roleplay in which the subject matter isn't too disturbing for younger writers, but instead too advanced and knowledgeable for someone their age. Would a roleplay warrant the 18+ tag for an environment like that, where kids just wouldn't be able to fully partake or understand?

Of coarse, I wouldn't think most kids would be excited to join a roleplay dealing with the philosophical consequences of guilt, but I still think the question stands. Also, I am definitely for a wider range of tags in order to better detail the types of RPs people may put out. It would help split up and define the 18+ tag so that the above situation, and whatever guilty pleasures others may have, can be separated and (hopefully) attract their own audience. You'll just have to always be alert when the [romantic] or [gory] tag is used, because it will attract kids like flies.

[LegionPothIX]

@Light the Dark I am always cautious when I see anything that says 18+. It's been my experience that the type of people who create those types of games--that is to say games requiring an age limit--are the kinds of people who themselves wouldn't be let into exactly such a game.

There are as many ways to weed out immature RPers, and stupid people in general, as there are people to weed out. Some arbitrary number suggests (to me at least) that the person who created the RP is to lazy to do any of them. It's just a big red sign that says "lie convincingly".

Well, that, and my instant gut reaction is that I've stumbled into Edgy Edgington run by Mayor McEdgy from Edgyborough.

Were it me trying to create a mature game I would state in the OP that I will not censure my players. But I will not accept any players who either are required to be censured, or require others to be censured.

[ArenaSnow]

@Light the Dark I am always cautious when I see anything that says 18+. It's been my experience that the type of people who create those types of games--that is to say games requiring an age limit--are the kinds of people who themselves wouldn't be let into exactly such a game.

There are as many ways to weed out immature RPers, and stupid people in general, as there are people to weed out. Some arbitrary number suggests (to me at least) that the person who created the RP is to lazy to do any of them. It's just a big red sign that says "lie convincingly".

@LegionPothIX

Pretty apt. I consider it virtually identical to something that requires a particular gender of roleplayer - how the hell do you know?

Rather easy to lie. Ultimately, I consider 18+ when used in that context more of an indicator of mature themes than anything else. 3 characters over typing out "mature" for those who would otherwise be 'triggered' by reading that sort of rp :p

[LegionPothIX]

@ArenaSnow I view people who require a certain gender to RP a little differently myself and consider them more offensive. I see it as a kind of Metagaming. Pretty much the only thing that "triggers" me is cheating, and metagaming is most often used for cheating, but usually it's because the RPer has limited skills and sees everyone else as having the same limited skills. However, it can easily get even creepier than that (and typically does) depending on what is the requiring person wants to RP.

Like, instead of coming out and saying "Cyber with me!" its somewhat implied that they're thinking "I'll just pretend you are your character, and fap to you directly" like they don't know that we know that's what they're doing.

Regarding 18+ I understand that it's the site's policy that Mature and 18+ are meant to be largely interchangeable (I had to check to be certain), but they still imply different things based on how they're used by the people (and types of people) who prefer one over the other. As far as I can tell the difference seems to be that "Mature" tag means the content requires a mature set of sensibilities, while "18+" tag means players need to be interested in "mature" content.

The distinction comes into play because being interested in mature content does not make you mature.

Regarding age itself, to me personally, if a body doesn't have 5 or more years experience being an adult (23 or older), then I don't really consider them one. After all, an 18 year old adult generally has 18 years experience being a kid, and no years of experience being an adult.

[Master]

@Light the Dark I am always cautious when I see anything that says 18+. It's been my experience that the type of people who create those types of games--that is to say games requiring an age limit--are the kinds of people who themselves wouldn't be let into exactly such a game.

There are as many ways to weed out immature RPers, and stupid people in general, as there are people to weed out. Some arbitrary number suggests (to me at least) that the person who created the RP is to lazy to do any of them. It's just a big red sign that says "lie convincingly".

Well, that, and my instant gut reaction is that I've stumbled into Edgy Edgington run by Mayor McEdgy from Edgyborough.

Were it me trying to create a mature game I would state in the OP that I will not censure my players. But I will not accept any players who either are required to be censured, or require others to be censured.

@LegionPothIX

I agree with this. Just state in the sign-up thingy that you're going to allow detailed gore or sexytime in the RP, if that's what you're goin' for.

Personally I think censorship is silly. In the immortal words of Mark Twain, "Censorship is like telling a man he can't eat a steak because a baby can't chew it".

[ArenaSnow]

@ArenaSnow I view people who require a certain gender to RP a little differently myself and consider them more offensive. I see it as a kind of Metagaming. Pretty much the only thing that "triggers" me is cheating, and metagaming is most often used for cheating, but usually it's because the RPer has limited skills and sees everyone else as having the same limited skills. However, it can easily get even creepier than that (and typically does) depending on what is the requiring person wants to RP.

Like, instead of coming out and saying "Cyber with me!" its somewhat implied that they're thinking "I'll just pretend you are your character, and fap to you directly" like they don't know that we know that's what they're doing.

@LegionPothIX

I guess I could see some applications of gender requirements, being for a person's state of comfort (meh, whatever floats their boat :p) and/or nativity - but I always have to think that the quoted text is quite often what is going on. My sense of empathy doesn't offer many more explanations...

Regarding 18+ I understand that it's the site's policy that Mature and 18+ are meant to be largely interchangeable (I had to check to be certain), but they still imply different things based on how they're used by the people (and types of people) who prefer one over the other. As far as I can tell the difference seems to be that "Mature" tag means the content requires a mature set of sensibilities, while "18+" tag means players need to be interested in "mature" content.

@LegionPothIX

I personally just note that there's mature content and what forms, if applicable - 18+ is sloppy shorthand of the same to me. But I suppose it's all a matter of interpretation.

The distinction comes into play because being interested in mature content does not make you mature.

@LegionPothIX

Plenty of experience on my end where that's been repeatedly proven true. >.>

Regarding age itself, to me personally, if a body doesn't have 5 or more years experience being an adult (23 or older), then I don't really consider them one. After all, an 18 year old adult generally has 18 years experience being a kid, and no years of experience being an adult.

@LegionPothIX

I find that age is merely an approximation that is a poor rigid 1:1 determination of how "adult" an individual is. I've seen too many moronic shits posing as "adults" who have zero independence and act like they need spankings, timeouts and (frequently) revoction of their online privileges. Likewise, I've met teenagers with more knowledge, capacity to handle mature themes, and "adultness" than some adults ever will. My baseline is post histories, OOC interaction, and scrutiny of how people handle themselves on a broad basis to determine their 'age'. All I really determine is their maturity... and really, that's the only metric I need.

You cannot accurately glean exactly how mature everyone is by asking them "are you 18" or "are you mature" - practical experience is the only baseline.

So while I'm legally obligated to check that people are 18/not solicit roleplayers for "18+" content if they don't fit that age, it's not my true baseline. :p again, some 16/17/18 year olds act wise beyond their years, and others, well, don't...

[Ellri]

that would be an interesting idea... using one of the rudimentary machine learning AIs we have today to determine a user's age/maturity. How correct would such machine be? If it collects data based on posts and other openly available data?

i.e. one that looks at things like language, interests, etc. Rather than merely taking it on the submitted birthday date/year things from various sites.

What do you think of such idea?

[Bishop]

@Ellri I don't say this often but, that is the single most dumbest idea I've ever heard. There are so many numerous things that will go wrong that my brain freezes trying to list them all. (witty retort about my brain being sub par expected, come with smth original...and not idiotic)