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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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Setting- A gloomy forest at dusk.

Battle Theme-
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Winter Star12
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Winter Star12 The Guild's Nightmarish Shapeshifter

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Shadow walked around the forest wondering if what she heard was in her imagination. Living out in the woods killing anyone that approaches you can't really be good for your sanity. She held both her axes tightly in her hands keeping her eyes peeled.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@Winter Star12

You'll want this to be in the IC section. This is the OOC section. I'll go ahead and quote your post in the right area.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Winter Star12
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Derpy derp! But thx!
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Winter Star12
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What a fart! Not even my real life dad could fart that loud
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by FalloutJack
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FalloutJack The Long Dark Nuka-Break of the Soul

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@Doc Doctor
@Winter Star12

I'd prefer it if we had normal rounds of everyone going around once with posts. I tend to go 'Everyone else, then me, then everyone else again' with no particular order with them, except I wait for them to go when they do.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by FalloutJack
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FalloutJack The Long Dark Nuka-Break of the Soul

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Okay, I'm a little confused. It's already attacking, and it's doing so pretty damn fast, with the first time Gonad even knows it's there is basically when it's entering his field of vision ('cause he made no indicator, otherwise). There's huge claws descending upon him, and it's making to spring right off of him too. You should be defending yourselves.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Winter Star12
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It's clear Shadow is in defense mode I even state it in her part of the roleplay
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@FalloutJack

Gonad's just being nice. He didn't visibly react to the sounds (which gave away the presence of a foe) or bother to stand just because he's trying to see if it'll do something that may hold his interest. Since he doesn't approve of its course of action, he's offering another chance in the hopes of it reconsidering its choice of attack.

Gonad is a man of necessity. He only defends himself if he feels like he needs to.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by FalloutJack
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FalloutJack The Long Dark Nuka-Break of the Soul

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Okay, just so I understand that you were okay not defending yourself, Doc. I didn't want to move ahead with this without your consent.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by FalloutJack
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Invalid turn.

Whereas I checked to make sure you were leaving yourself wide open with no indicators - even in narrative, where they would be no signs externally, but the players would know what's up - of defense or even preparedness to make a move, you have simply decided that you connect. You did so, with a creature that I pointed outright you cannot hear properly, that you only see the instant before the attack because you are prone, and that is moving very swiftly. Since the two characters are both capable of moving and acting quickly, it would be very important to note who was taking advantage of that more. Well, at a dead stop with no indicator of where the attack is coming from, the preparedness count goes to the one who is there and gone again in seconds. I gave plenty of a chance - went out of my way, in fact - for some defensive measure to be taken and none actually was. It is too late to declare that you intercepted, thus. You allowed me to declare damage. So, you cannot brain your opponent all of a sudden, giving ME no chance to react to IT, which it certainly would have because it has three fricking eyes-on and quick reflexes. It is too late to make such a move.

You are gouged and bloody, and if you grip anything, your hands tear at fur as it forces itself away. I'll be back when it's fixed.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@FalloutJack

I never stated that Gonad wasn't prepared (as hinted at when I wrote that he "seemed" to ignore the suspicious sounds), nor did I auto-hit, if you'll look closely and notice such words as "may" and "would" placed appropriately. I did however work to limit your options by addressing the futility of certain responses. I did phrase my moves for what they were from an enemy POV, them being untelegraphed and unexpected. That comes from practical technique and contributes to the difficulty I estimated your character might suffer, but ultimately it's only speculation for dramatic effect and to make clear the conclusive prowess of Gonad's counter. I am implying that his attack is likely beyond the Trygon's capacity for response, acknowledging how you figured the same for Trygon's attack. The critical difference is in the following evidence, which alters the circumstances.

+++

+++

As it is, Gonad isn't off guard and is easily capable of striking whilst remaining in a prone position with little warning. In his profile it states that he can strike without conscious thought, using muscle memory. As your creature has no such stated ability, this gives Gonad the initiative in a counter.

+++

+++

You say I'm the one granted a chance, but understand all of the circumstances. An extra eye isn't an indicator of additional close range spatial reflexes, and it pretty much tried to open arm attack a wary opponent without guarding itself. Leap on a tiger and you'll get bitten, even if it's laying down. That's why I had Gonad give Trygon his "don't do it" glare.

+++

+++

I paid ample attention to your wording. Gonad would have seen the Trygon enter his vision whilst it was still mid-leap. Taking this into account, he'd have little trouble reacting, though a normal man may have been taken off guard. Note also that from the Trygon's POV, he firmly believed that Gonad really wasn't prepared, and remember that in the way I phrased it, Gonad only 'seemed' unprepared. Thus in actuality, Gonad was ready and the Trygon wasn't. It's not at all expecting him to counter with lethal force.

+++

+++

You said it, not me.

I also never said Gonad was going to grab it. He's countering by sticking his pipe through its eye, past the orbital, and into its brain as it lunges into him, unless given reason why such a thing wouldn't work.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by FalloutJack
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To instinctively react to something, you still need input. Gonad is not psychic. The only input he has is noise, from all directions, until the attacker is in view, period. He doesn't know where the attack comes from and you did not even make any indication to ME, the player, of preparedness in your turn. He was prone and doing nothing, physically. You were suppose to react last turn and you did not. You declared nothing and your character had no idea what was actually going to happen. You can certainly react to something that is suddenly THERE, but since you didn't know what was going to happen, can't make an intercept properly. The Trygon, meanwhile, can SEE Gonad, and is a fast-moving being that you would NEED to see or hear properly in order to intercept, assuming no extra-sensory perception which Gonad does not have.

Speaking of instinct, you don't get to say that the actions of the Trygon to transform and leap into attack are not well-honed and as second-nature as breathing. It's a bloody killer that has clearly done this often. In fact, with the race knowing little else in life, this kind of practice becomes more intrinsic to its being because it's got the back of a predatory species in its head. Let us not forget that the entire point of its actions were to hit-and-run because it felt beforehand that Gonad was potentially dangerous. He just didn't DO anything. And you didn't tell the player and the audience he was doing anything. You did this, and then you proceeded to tell me how my own fighter worked as you auto-hit, with knowledge of anatomy Gonad doesn't have and I doubt he could target from where he's lying even if he had.

And just to Devil's Advocate here, if you really did stop the creature's momentum with this illegal action, you'd be preventing it from using its legs to pull its claws from Gonad's body, and thus it would be rupturing several organs with its long and dense saber-like bone-claws as it thrashes in a total frenzy. Since I specified the stomach, the claws would thrash around without bones to impede them, tearing through multiple organs that are necessary for life, as it would even enter the unprotected chest cavity. You'd just die.

Either way, I'm not pleased with your actions. They were too late, and you tried to conceal them like a guy cheating at poker with aces up his sleeve, and they were frigging auto-hitting. You are out of order, and I will not budge on this. Get out.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@FalloutJack
There's no need to be rude, or shout buzz words. I'm providing you with logic and evidence, not playing the blame game or making unfounded claims.

Gonad's glare is independent of his action. It's his appearance and I was making that evident. Describing what a character looks like in case it may provoke an alternate response doesn't consume the timeframe. I didn't waste an action, I just made more detail clear to you in case it may change something before committing.

I don't particularly care how much honed experience a character has, if its owner commits to a flawed action. I could run a thousand year old wizard, but if I try to catch a fist with my face, that thousand years means zilch.

Now, note that you also provided a time frame. You said it took a second for it to transform mid-leap, and that was /before/ it made contact.

Thus, what it comes down to is, can Gonad react to and strike an opponent in about a second?

Well...



A fat dude who probably does weekend boxing can. Certainly a Trygon is quite different from an old man in a scarecrow outfit, but then again, Gonad is far and away deadlier than any aggressive middle-aged American. Given a second to react and kill, he could easily slay the ï¹°Trygon twice over with how reckless it is. Yes, yes. It is a reckless move, despite the monster being such a great predator. I shall remain here, thank you, and eagerly await your rebuttal.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Doc Doctor
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@FalloutJack
Additional information. Of course Gonad understands anatomy. In his profile, if you'd look closer, there's mention of his kill count. Quadruple digits. It also states that he knows of a thousand ways to kill with his bare hands. I do wonder that you'd think he doesn't grasp basic biology 🤔. You can reach the brain through the eyes. Even children know that, let alone the world's greatest warrior. That's how character experience may be brought into play properly. Do reread my post as well, as I did in fact take the claws into account.

Attention to detail is vital in fight writing.

P.S.
I shouldn't need another reference, but I really do want to put emphasis on my point.

Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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@Doc Doctor@FalloutJack

Hokay, alright. Let's get down to brass tacks. I was called in to judge and determine which of you is in the right. So I'll read through both of your posts and character sheets and lay down the facts as I see them.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by LeeRoy
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@FalloutJack
Trygon Applicable Abilities:





(Take note, Jack. I'd recommend keeping your physical abilities out of the description of a character's appearance. Largely for convenience, but also to avoid confusion.)

There's no actual comparison for their physical ability. From descriptions I can gather they're on average stronger than a normal animal or human. Such as a Tiger + Lion hybrid or something. With no physical comparisons for your feats and abilities, I can give you no points for this action. The speed you demonstrated in your posts is not what is visible on your character sheet.

So what I'm seeing is that the sound coming from all directions is traced to its eye that can cause disorientation, and thus intended to hide its approach. HOWEVER, in the very next post you wrote out:



From the top of "his" (Gonad's) vision. You immediately remove the advantage of surprise by rushing in. Something that you described in your character sheet as something that this creature doesn't do.



So you are already at a disadvantage by acting outside of your self described natural environment. As well, you haven't described your approach as anything other than an approach. Any action without a proper description defaults to what I like to call a "Stock" action. So this approach can only be percieved as a straight line approach into the clearing in his direct line of sight.

Without any measurement of speed on this thing's movement, without any measurement of distance, and without any clarification of how it is approaching this is looking incredibly bad for the Trygon.

And next up.



This is a further clarification of its movement, meaning that it can be seen from not one but two vantage points in the direct line of sight of both enemy combatants.

This means that in your post you clarified that this is a very obvious attack, so the point made in your next point is completely irrelevant.



So the summary is as follows:
No clarification of physical description except for vague "Better than normal animals." means that the speed feats of your post are greatly diminished to non-supernatural limits.

No clarification of your incoming direction except for "Direct line of sight." means that your opponents have a very clear view of you incoming, so your use of disorienting methods is made null and void through your own action.

And attacking outside of your self imposed stealthy combat style with a bull rush method that you clearly stated it doesn't do, puts you at a distinct advantage for doing so. Especially towards two enemy combatants, one visibly and one non-visibly armed.

@Doc Doctor

Gonad Applicable Abilities:






So, right off the bat we're at a much more clear and concise clarification of physical abilities.

We've got the strength of a large grizzly bear, the speed of Bruce Lee + Usain Bolt, and innumerable feats to demonstrate his physical fortitude and ability.

As it stands, the comparison of speed and strength is levered in the favor of Gonad from the starting line. With no comparable feats for the Trygon, we can only assume "Better than normal animal." which is matched by a comparison to a specifically "Large Grizzly Bear" which is a better than normal animal, by definition.

Gonad too suffers from a case of descriptive information vital to the character's use in the physical description, but even moreso in his history. Take note, Doc, make sure to clarify what is usable in combat because if it's in the History or Character's Physical Description there can be confusion.

Especially in the case of Gonad, where his physical fortitude is described largely in the description of his appearance and less information is in the Abilities and Skills tab of his sheet.

From all of the accumulated information from this character sheet, I can conclude that Gonad has these attributes for just his physical state:

Strength superior to an average bear
Striking speed comparable to Bruce Lee
Running speed comparable to Usain Bolt
Physical durability comparable to metal armor
Pain tolerance that makes physical injury almost negligible
Control over his blood vessels that makes blood loose irrelevant
Fingers comparable to claws
Grip strength comparable to a vice (Though with no clarification on how strong his grip is, it's not an applicable stat beyond "Better than a normal person.")
And on top of that, he has an ability to double his physical stats by inducing a berserker rage which puts enough strain on his body as to tear muscles and shatter bones.

And then we see this.



This implies that Gonad is singlehandedly capable of achieving the entirety of humanity's absurd feats. That's an incredibly long list of abilities that would nead clarification, especially since some are contradictory to one another.



This is Gonad's bread and butter for this situation. But most notably because of two parts of two posts.



So here it states that Gonad watches its approach, consciously registering both its appearance and movement.



Here it states that it would be clearly visible, despite the distraction method of its disorientation magic.

These two, combined with the information that we have about Gonad and the Trygon, we understand that this gives Gonad sufficient time to both glare down and react to the movement made by the creature.

Since-
A: The Trygon's speed is great, but not supernaturally so.
B: Gonad's speed and reaction time are absurd.
C: Gonad is aware of the Trygon's approach.
D: The Trygon's post clearly states that both combatants would be aware of the Trygon's approach.
And finally
E: Gonad's reaction is superhuman when it comes to unconscious reactions, and even moreso when it comes to conscious reactions.

Closing Points:

Given all information about both characters and every post, I determine that Gonad's action is the more clear and self evident, while the other relies heavily on unclear information in the character sheet.

For a fair alteration so the fight doesn't immediately end due to a mistake, however, I would see fit as to pull back to This Post and rewrite the fight from that point with the knowledge that you have now.

Continuing from the point where the issue arose would be the most fair and entertaining to both parties, since if the argument persists one of you will automatically be eliminated. Either by judgment towards Gonad's brain stab or the Trygon's gut rending motion.

As it stands, however, Gonad's brain stab is the more likely of the two to be followed through.

Do as you will with the information I've gathered, but my judgement is in favor of @Doc Doctor
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by FalloutJack
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@LeeRoy

LeeRoy, it's decent of you to come and judge this thing, but I do not accept the Doc's explanations or methods, so the fight is off.
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