[OOC] Digimon: Convergence of the Human and Digital Worlds (S11)

[mattmanganon]

Fish of Oblivion said
So, you're ignoring me. Well, fuck it, I'm used to it by this point. Have fun.

Not ignoring you, I was just popping in for 5 minutes to answer that, I was planning on responding now, you know, RPG isn't my only concern at the moment.

Anyway, my thinking behind him becoming Imperialdramon, as far as the PTSD works, is that, well, he had nothing to do with the Royal Knights incident. As an idea that came to me whilst out earlier, I was thinking that it would actually work for some character development. Specifically, doing what I had planned on doing in the last one with Beelzemon. Since he is now wearing the face of a mass murderer, naturally, the first time he is used, he thinks nothing of it until everyone fucking explodes at him about it. Then, in the next encounter where, really, it would help out a lot if he became Imperialdramon again, but he chooses not to, afraid that everyone is going to explode at him again. Naturally, he's going to be afraid. It's a proven fact that children often inherit their parents phobia's. So, if the people he looks up to scream at him for doing something that comes naturally, E.G. Curiosity about something dangerous, then they are going to get scared. Once bitten, twice shy.

Secondly, there is more than 1 of each Digimon in the world. Therefore, this is a completely different Imperialdramon. It's not "Resurrecting Hitler" as everyone seems to be yelling about it's just "Resurrecting an austrian bloke with the Charlie Chaplin mustache." In the end, it'll boil down to Denmon coming to terms with this and saying "I don't care if you think this is evil, I am me, not some asshole that looks like me. He never affected me, so, whilst I can, i'm going to use this form to do some good in the world."

[Fish of Oblivion]

mattmanganon said
Not ignoring you, I was just popping in for 5 minutes to answer that, I was planning on responding now, you know, RPG isn't my only concern at the moment.Anyway, my thinking behind him becoming Imperialdramon, as far as the PTSD works, is that, well, he had nothing to do with the Royal Knights incident. As an idea that came to me whilst out earlier, I was thinking that it would actually work for some character development. Specifically, doing what I had planned on doing in the last one with Beelzemon. Since he is now wearing the face of a mass murderer, naturally, the first time he is used, he thinks nothing of it until everyone fucking explodes at him about it. Then, in the next encounter where, really, it would help out a lot if he became Imperialdramon again, but he chooses not to, afraid that everyone is going to explode at him again. Naturally, he's going to be afraid. It's a proven fact that children often inherit their parents phobia's. So, if the people he looks up to scream at him for doing something that comes naturally, E.G. Curiosity about something dangerous, then they are going to get scared. Once bitten, twice shy.Secondly, there is more than 1 of each Digimon in the world. Therefore, this is a completely different Imperialdramon. It's not "Resurrecting Hitler" as everyone seems to be yelling about it's just "Resurrecting an austrian bloke with the Charlie Chaplin mustache." In the end, it'll boil down to Denmon coming to terms with this and saying "I don't care if you think this is evil, I am me, not some asshole that looks like me. He never affected me, so, whilst I can, i'm going to use this form to do some good in the world."

Actually, I somewhat remember us agreeing that the Knight species were limited to a member each by Yggdrasil. Granted, whether that holds up is debatable now that Yggdrasil's dead, but still. I'd go on about how you just decided to use Imperialdramon without asking Psyker first, but he himself doesn't seem to give a shit, so meh. I'll just make one last futile gesture towards BlackImperialdramon for the same of a trivial change making things a little better and leave it there.

As for the rest of it, if you're actually working this into the character arc instead of just randomly picking Imperialdramon because 'muh 02', I honestly won't complain. I actually considered something similar to this for the fic, if that's any indication of anything. Just fish up some reasoning and you should be fine, just try to lay the foundations before building the temple next time.

[Vincanity]

Hm, just found a summary in one of my old profile documents. I'ma leave it here for now until I rework the information.

Vin

Characters:
Leon/Veemon, The same crazies as before but now setting their stubborn nature on determined missions.
Magnamon- Becomes more of a Vengeful Loner when revived with the power of the DigiMetals.
ShineGreymon- Same as played now. May have him killed at some point to get the Spirits stolen. Not sure yet.
Neo, A little Like Alan Parrsih from Jumanji. Similar to Jordan, he has been to the digital world before. He disappeared when Leon was a kid and got stranded in the digital world for many years. Probably near a decade by the time of the sequel. When whatever the Dark Lords do to our original group a rift will form that takes them back into the Partical world.
Pupmon 1 +2, Red/Blue Onis.
Shakamon, Holy deity type guy trying to make sure the digital world is never to good or evil. Sometimes causes actions, like the two worlds converging from the original RP, to help change the world (I.E. crossover, the coup de Royal Knights, and the power to defeat evil corporation.)
Purger, Shakamon never fights himself. Instead, he has the Purger. Basically the Vaccine to the Hazards Virus, it never takes over a host but is an entity type that Purges the existances of darkness/evil/w.e. bad things are in them. Has the power of two of Shakamon’s Digicores.
Lucemons, If we have all 3 rps in one timeline I may have Lucemon get a tamer, but for now he is just a big bad in the coming up sequel. Since he is Pride, I will have him showing the positive and negative aspects of it as he grows through his levels (Rookie > Mega) and culminate him into the ultimate evil beast and maybe have him do the “splitting personality = splitting power” thing into a dark and light Lucemon. Idk yet, it depends on what everyone else does.
Mokesh, Not all humans are good, so I want to play one that is exactly that. Not good. He is Raven from Zoids – Chaotic Century, but with much more mental instability. He may be from an asylum or rehab or something, as you never see special people getting digimon a lot... May do a heel face turn, may die in a blaze of not so great glory. Depends on what we everntually want.
Falcomon, Mokesh’s Shadow (Z-CC). He is Evil by Loyal association, but enjoy the thrill of freedmon they have and is willing to kill to keep it. If he goes from bad (http://dma.wtw-x.net/DMA/DigimonStands/Toei/Shadowman/RavemonBurstMode.jpg) to good (http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp319/ShadowKitt-chan/Digimon/RavemonBurstMode.jpg ) those would be the changes that would happen in appearance at Mega level.
Dexmon, Type 4 Chaotic Evil at Rookie, but changes when he digivolves. I am hoping to start off the RP with another big battle between a dark and light digimon. I would want to use DexDorugoramon, the Mega of the Dex line, and have him be defeated by whoever/whatever and get reduced to Rookie/In Training. As Mokesh finds Falcomons Egg/Intraining form chance leads to the Tamer to find Dex’s as well, making Mokesh think he has two digimon. Dex uses the power provided by the Digivice to grow stronger over time before revealing himself as another Big Bad, becoming Dexmon and maybe killing or critically injuring Mokesh once he is done with him. Unfinished.

[mattmanganon]

Fish of Oblivion said As for the rest of it, if you're actually working this into the character arc instead of just randomly picking Imperialdramon because 'muh 02', I honestly won't complain. I actually considered something similar to this for the fic, if that's any indication of anything. Just fish up some reasoning and you should be fine, just try to lay the foundations before building the temple next time.

Actually, really, the 100% honest reason I initially picked Imperialdramon was because I REEEEEALLY wanted Stingmon, because he is one of my favourite Digimon, and Paildramon is just as awesome, plus, Imperialdramon is, undeniably, his coolest final form. But, that was just the initial reason. One of the biggest things that I wanted to focus on in this is the relationship between Wormmon and Denmon. That relationship will become strained when Denmon starts to fear him, what he can become.

As for BlackImperialdramon... Have you seen him? it took me a few minutes to actually notice the difference the first time I saw him. The ONLY difference is that his tail and hands are black instead of blue... Do you want this to be like how Sailor Moons tiara is the ultimate disguise. "Oh my god, your hands are blue OH MY GOD!!! YOUR'E THE EVIL ASSHOLE- Wait... No, sorry, your hands are black, that's fine, shit, for a minute there, I thought you were someone else.

If people ABSOLUTELY want me to go black, then I suppose I don't have much choice in the matter, but what i'm saying is that... What real difference does it make? I know you can argue the whole "If it makes no difference then why don't you want to change it?" but at the same time "If it makes no difference, then why are you so gung-ho on me changing it?"

[Vincanity]

Personally, I don't have much of a problem with it as most of our characters will probably understand the digivolution process when he hits Paildramon, have a moment or two of annoyance then get over it. Then, when he actually becomes Impy 2.0 it can all be made intersting/funny/hostile.

[Fish of Oblivion]

mattmanganon said
Actually, really, the 100% honest reason I initially picked Imperialdramon was because I REEEEEALLY wanted Stingmon, because he is one of my favourite Digimon, and Paildramon is just as awesome, plus, Imperialdramon is, undeniably, his coolest final form. But, that was just the initial reason. One of the biggest things that I wanted to focus on in this is the relationship between Wormmon and Denmon. That relationship will become strained when Denmon starts to fear him, what he can become.As for BlackImperialdramon... Have you seen him? it took me a few minutes to actually notice the difference the first time I saw him. The ONLY difference is that his tail and hands are black instead of blue... Do you want this to be like how Sailor Moons tiara is the ultimate disguise. "Oh my god, your hands are blue OH MY GOD!!! YOUR'E THE EVIL ASSHOLE- Wait... No, sorry, your hands are black, that's fine, shit, for a minute there, I thought you were someone else.If people ABSOLUTELY want me to go black, then I suppose I don't have much choice in the matter, but what i'm saying is that... What real difference does it make? I know you can argue the whole "If it makes no difference then why don't you want to change it?" but at the same time "If it makes no difference, then why are you so gung-ho on me changing it?"

Honestly, the BlackImperialdramon thing was less to circumvent in-story reactions (which could be worked into the character) and more to justify the second Imperialdramon considering the limit. It's a way of basically changing nothing whilst avoiding a handful of problems. It gets rid of the problems that can't be made conductive to the story, basically.

As for him being Stingmon's coolest final form, bitch fucking please.

[Psyker Landshark]

mattmanganon said
Actually, really, the 100% honest reason I initially picked Imperialdramon was because I REEEEEALLY wanted Stingmon, because he is one of my favourite Digimon, and Paildramon is just as awesome

Stingmon into JewelBeemon/Dinobeemon/Paildramon into GrandisKuwagamon.

[mattmanganon]

Fish of Oblivion said
Honestly, the BlackImperialdramon thing was less to circumvent in-story reactions (which could be worked into the character) and more to justify the second Imperialdramon considering the limit. It's a way of basically changing nothing whilst avoiding a handful of problems. It gets rid of the problems that can't be made conductive to the story, basically.

As for him being Stingmon's coolest final form,

Well, as I said earlier, I thought that we were the ones making the rules here, when, IC, did we ever say that there was only 1 of each Royal Knight? And if we did say that, when did we say that there was absolutely no way that another couldn't be born after the first one died? Surely it would make sense that Yggdrasil made a failsafe that would resurrect his most powerful champion in the event of his death. And if you're worried about the whole Powerplay thing, then just remember that both you and Voc have proven the ability to take down an Imperialdramon that has had millenia of experience. I am pretty sure that a 10 year old Imperialdramon with no experience of utilizing the power that comes with his new form would be no problem.

secondly, Psyke, GrandisKuwagamon is... Well, he's really not what I am looking for...

thirdly I don't think there is any Digimon fan that wouldn't agree that BanchoStingmon looks pretty fuckin' sweet. As in... Oh my god, that thing looks fucking awesome... But i'm not sure Psyke would appreciate me stealing his Bancho thing that he has going on... Ok Psyke, I typed what you told me to, now put the gun d

[Fish of Oblivion]

Did internal consistency leave a flaming bag of shit on your porch or something? Imperialdramon was the goddamn Big Bad of Convergence, don't you think it's just a -little- bit jarring to just up and throw in a completely different Imperialdramon as a hero without even offering an explanation from the outset? Because really, man. If you have an explanation for this, I'm still waiting to hear it.

And considering Psych didn't seem to care about you up and using Imperialdramon without even asking first, I doubt he'd be that bothered about you using BanchoStingmon. Though I don't think he'd work with what you've probably got planned, so meh.

[Psyker Landshark]

Wait, why would I give a shit if you used BanchoStingmon.

[Vincanity]

You're the Bancho man, obviously.

[mattmanganon]

Vincanity said
You're the Bancho man, obviously.

[mattmanganon]

Fish of Oblivion said
Did internal consistency leave a flaming bag of shit on your porch or something? Imperialdramon was the goddamn Big Bad of Convergence, don't you think it's just a -little- bit jarring to just up and throw in a completely different Imperialdramon as a hero without even offering an explanation from the outset? Because really, man. If you have an explanation for this, I'm still waiting to hear it. And considering Psych didn't seem to care about you up and using Imperialdramon without even asking first, I doubt he'd be that bothered about you using BanchoStingmon. Though I don't think he'd work with what you've probably got planned, so meh.

Ummm...

Mattmanganon said Surely it would make sense that Yggdrasil made a failsafe that would resurrect his most powerful champion in the event of his death.

I did say... Essentially, the idea was that, in the highly likely event that the Royal Knights are to be killed (As powerful as they are, they are not invincible) they find a new host to grow with... This IS already canon in our universe, because that is exactly what happened to Examon, killed, found a new host to regrow with, as well as AncientSphinxmon and most of the other Ancients. My idea is that because Imperialdramon was 2 different Digimon, Wormon and Veemon were separated in the split... And before Vin says a word, I DO NOT HAVE ANY PLANS TO BRING HIS VEEMON INTO THIS!!! I promised that I wouldn't bring Veemon into this and I plan to keep it. Wormon, because he was bonded into Imperialdramon for so long, had his individual mind destroyed, as such has no memory of being Imperialdramon.

Is this a satisfactory idea? It makes sense within the context of our universe and isn't unheard of in the official canon (When Seraphimon was destroyed in Frontier, the data of Seraphimon was absorbed by Mercurymon, but his consciousness was reconstituted into an egg.) So, what I am proposing not only has precidence within our own canon, but in official canon as well. Is this acceptable?

[Fish of Oblivion]

mattmanganon said
Ummm...

Yeah, sorry. I forgot you have the sum total communication skills of a bag of bricks.

Also-

mattmanganon said that is exactly what happened to Examon

No it wasn't. He just reformed into a DigiEgg, no hosts involved. For the sake of getting shit done, I'm just going to go with the explanation you just gave, but you're going to have to introduce this concept's relation to the Knights because there is no actual precedent for it in-rp outside of the Ancients. One more futile gesture towards BlackImperialdramon for the sake of continuity too, I guess.

[mattmanganon]

Fish of Oblivion said Also-No it wasn't. He just reformed into a DigiEgg, no hosts involved. For the sake of getting shit done, I'm just going to go with the explanation you just gave, but you're going to have to introduce this concept's relation to the Knights because there is no actual precedent for it in-rp outside of the Ancients. One more futile gesture towards BlackImperialdramon for the sake of continuity too, I guess.

He did have a host, Siggy served as his host, the DigiEgg latched onto Siggy for the power it needed. Another thing that has already been discussed IC is that there is a link between Digimon and their Digidestined through which energy flows

And again, what is the god damn difference between Imperialdramon and BlackImperialdramon... Beyond the fact that you seem to have a fetish for the black one. It's actually counter productive, story wise, the visual differences are minimal, so if someone is going to react to Imperialdramon, then they are logically going to react to BlackImperialdramon in roughly the same way. All you keep saying is "For the sake of continuity" even though, as I have pointed out, using Imperialdramon makes just as much sense, continuity wise.

Look, I'm not an unreasonable man (I'm scottish, the word you use for me is "Stubborn Cunt") it's just that you have yet to give a good reason as to why it would be better to use BlackImperialdramon, you've just said that it would be better, for a reason that you haven't really elaborated on. Why would it be better for the sake of continuity to use BlackImperialdramon?

[Fish of Oblivion]

mattmanganon said
He did have a host, Siggy served as his host, the DigiEgg latched onto Siggy for the power it needed. Another thing that has already been discussed IC is that there is a link between Digimon and their Digidestined through which energy flowsAnd again, what is the god damn difference between Imperialdramon and BlackImperialdramon... Beyond the fact that you seem to have a fetish for the black one. It's actually counter productive, story wise, the visual differences are minimal, so if someone is going to react to Imperialdramon, then they are logically going to react to BlackImperialdramon in roughly the same way. All you keep saying is "For the sake of continuity" even though, as I have pointed out, using Imperialdramon makes just as much sense, continuity wise.Look, I'm not an unreasonable man (I'm scottish, the word you use for me is "Stubborn Cunt") it's just that you have yet to give a good reason as to why it would be better to use BlackImperialdramon, you've just said that it would be better, for a reason that you haven't really elaborated on. Why would it be better for the sake of continuity to use BlackImperialdramon?

1. Nope. If you're going to make stuff up, please contain it to your characters.

2. It breaks down like this:
- We've already established in-RP that variations of Digimon like BlackImperialdramon exist and are separate from the other species. See; BlackWarGreymon and WarGreymon, Gallantmon and the ChaosGallantmon that Psyker's going to be using in S5 (and maybe S11 too, I need to talk to him about it).
- Last I recall, the species limits on Knights were a thing anyway, which is why Elle and Wizardmon had to absorb the replacement Dynasmon before becoming Dynasmon themselves. Dunno how well this holds up, but if it does, look at the above example- Psyker's ChaosGallantmon is a derivative of a Knight species, and we're totally fine with it.
- Different colourations mean more in Digimon than they mean in other places; here, a black variation of Imperialdramon would technically be a different species which wouldn't be affected by any limits.
- Because it's a different species and we've already got people using variations of a Digimon another person has (i.e- Vo's Gallantmon and to Psyker's ChaosGallantmon), using BlackImperialdramon would basically be changing nothing significant about the Digimon or character itself whilst getting rid of a lot of OOC problems like you using the same Digimon as Psych used for one of his major characters without asking, and a few IC problems like why there's another Imperialdramon running about.

tl;dr- you're changing virtually nothing about the character, but making it BlackImperialdramon actually makes it so that you're no longer overlapping with Psyker and aren't stepping on any existing things

Also, I never fucking said it would change the way people would react to him, please stop being a stubborn cunt and actually read what I'm saying properly.

[mattmanganon]

1) What do you mean "Make stuff up"? The Royal Knights plan to stop Convergence was to sever this link, because Yggdrasil had deduced that this link between the humans and the Digimon was pulling the 2 worlds together. Remember? Omnimon showed up when they were on the train and told them of this plan, and then everyone told him to go fuck himself, which is how we got into this mess in the first place.

2) Fine, fair enough. I still pretty much think that this is redundant to the max, and it's just the british gene that is forcing us to argue over nothing (Case in point, I once argued with my nan for 2 hours over whether a bag was green or blue, IT WAS GREEN, DAMMIT!!!)

Psych, you will have the last word in this, K? If you want me to change to his black form so that it doesn't conflict with your plans, then it'll be done, if you don't really give a shit, or actually want to get rid of the responsibility of playing Imperialdramon so that you can focus on other plot points, then I'll keep Imperialdramon. Is this satisfactory?

[Psyker Landshark]

Fuck it, make it BlackImperialdramon.

[mattmanganon]

And so it was decided upon

[Fish of Oblivion]

and then twenty years later ganon invaded poland

the end