Sexual Liberation in Frozen?

[Gwynbleidd]

Just saw Frozen finally. Loved it.

However, the topic of the "Let It Go" scene has apparently come up in many articles. Some have reported a dislike for the character of Elsa letting her hair down and then transforming appearance into a more sexualized "empowered" woman.

Personally (at least for now), I feel like these articles are grasping at straws mainly because compared to other disney characters (Jasmine, Pocahontas, Ariel), Elsa seems pretty tame. And for that matter, what is so terrible about "sexiness" anyway? Don't get it twisted, objectification is wrong. However, I find this attack on sexual liberation to be oddly misplaced.

Thoughts?

[The Nexerus]

People started drawing way too deeply into things like Disney movies, and now Disney feels obligated to shoehorn some kind of politically correct moral into every story it writes.

[Kestrel]

People like to get upset over shit that doesn't matter. I think someone somewhere on the interwebz called it the 'offended-boner' or something. Meanwhile media like to write shit that sells and go figure, there's enough idiots around to make a living out of the bullshit.

[Dervish]

Sexualized for letting her hair down?

Good thing they didn't show her ankles or the people who thought Frozen was a sexualized LGBT movie would have fire bombed Disney.

I mean, when people are thinking the sisters are lesbian because the act of true love that saved the day came from each other instead of a man, you know society collectively needs to get out more and stop looking for hidden agendas because eww.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

Dervish said
Sexualized for letting her hair down?Good thing they didn't show her ankles or the people who thought Frozen was a sexualized LGBT movie would have fire bombed Disney.I mean, when people are thinking the sisters are lesbian because the act of true love that saved the day came from each other instead of a man, you know society collectively needs to get out more and stop looking for hidden agendas because eww.

I know. That incest/lesbian shit is disgusting.
I agree with mein fuhrer on this issue for once.

[Dervish]

ActRaiserTheReturned said
I agree with mein fuhrer on this issue for once.

I sincerely hope you're not implying I'm homophobic.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

Dervish said
I sincerely hope you're not implying I'm homophobic.

No. I'm implying that anything involving incest is filthy and unacceptable. Including with the Lesbian involvement with it.

[So Boerd]

Knowing Disney, they probably felt obliged to put some PC crap in just so no one would hassle them for having an all-white cast (given this is ripoff Denmark)

[mdk]

Maybe we should be less concerned with what movies are teaching our kids, and pay more attention to what WE'RE teaching our kids.

[Gwynbleidd]

mdk said
Maybe we should be less concerned with what movies are teaching our kids, and pay more attention to what WE'RE teaching our kids.

Not arguing against this. But kids do pick up things and lessons from media. Parents should probably show a little more control on what their children watch. Or at least take the time to explain certain things to them.

[Gwynbleidd]

Dervish said
Sexualized for letting her hair down?Good thing they didn't show her ankles or the people who thought Frozen was a sexualized LGBT movie would have fire bombed Disney.I mean, when people are thinking the sisters are lesbian because the act of true love that saved the day came from each other instead of a man, you know society collectively needs to get out more and stop looking for hidden agendas because eww.

Lol, I know. It's not necessarily about letting her hair down as a single factor but it's part of it. They're concerned about the tight fitting dress (gasp), the slit on the front of the dress (oh lord), and her makeup and lipstick (unspeakable! :p).

People think the sisters are lesbians? Oh wow. That's… I don't even know what to say. However, there is a case for the movie and characters in itself to be a metaphor for LGBT themes. Like for example, coming out of the closet. I'd think that'd be a pretty positive message, and overall I looked at it as a positive message for all of those who have been oppressed or repressed to not be afraid and be who they are. But yeah, looking for metaphors and messages is different than building up something that's not there.

The Nexerus said
People started drawing way too deeply into things like Disney movies, and now Disney feels obligated to shoehorn some kind of politically correct moral into every story it writes.

I feel that's somewhat true. I mean, all of the stories in disney films have been "morally correct" in its overarching themes. Concerns stem from certain portrayals of women and relationships in the other films being entirely unrealistic.

[Shy]

Dark Wind said
However, there is a case for the movie and characters in itself to be a metaphor for LGBT themes. Like for example, coming out of the closet. I'd think that'd be a pretty positive message, and overall I looked at it as a positive message for all of those who have been oppressed or repressed to not be afraid and be who they are. But yeah, looking for metaphors and messages is different than building up something that's not there.

I find this to be the case with basically every movie or book in the world. Yes it is okay to make connections yourself on a personal level but you CANNOT claim that the movie itself is a planned metaphor for something unless the writer himself says so. I totally agree with how the movie is about not being afraid to be who you are, as Disney has said, that that is what the movie is about. Whether it affects you as an in the closet gay, just an odd person or some other reason isn't really relevant, because it is a positive message designed to help you. Taking the movie and saying "Frozen has such a pro-lgbt" message is not the same. Their message is pro-bewhoyouwannabe. Period.

[Gwynbleidd]

Shy said
I find this to be the case with basically every movie or book in the world. Yes it is okay to make connections yourself on a personal level but you CANNOT claim that the movie itself is a planned metaphor for something unless the writer himself says so. I totally agree with how the movie is about not being afraid to be who you are, as Disney has said, that that is what the movie is about. Whether it affects you as an in the closet gay, just an odd person or some other reason isn't really relevant, because it is a positive message designed to help you. Taking the movie and saying "Frozen has such a pro-lgbt" message is not the same. Their message is pro-bewhoyouwannabe. Period.

It's an oversimplified picture. But not necessarily untrue. I can agree there are certain things we can overanalyze. However, a lot of classic writers put a lot of intricacies into their writing and it would be overly-simplistic to dismiss it. I didn't say Frozen has such a pro-LGBT message, I suggested that the dialogue and overarching themes lend evidence to there being certain positive attitudes toward LGBT. And not being afraid to be who you are is relevant because that does affect gays, women who have been repressed, and others.

I CAN claim a movie or book has any meaning that I believe it to have, and I can bring up what I believe is evidence of that fact. Whether that evidence is poor or strong is up to interpretation and analysis. It is well-known that when writing, an author's subconscious seeps into there writing without them knowing it and it reflects inner beliefs and other subconscious archetypes. And a pro-bewhoyouwannabe message covers being LGBT, no?

[So Boerd]

I CAN claim a movie or book has any meaning that I believe it to have, and I can bring up what I believe is evidence of that fact. Whether that evidence is poor or strong is up to interpretation and analysis. It is well-known that when writing, an author's subconscious seeps into there writing without them knowing it and it reflects inner beliefs and other subconscious archetypes. And a pro-bewhoyouwannabe message covers being LGBT, no?

Can in the "I physically am able" sense or "I can truthfully and rightfully?" sense?

[Brovo]

As a writer, I can say pretty much that both Shy and Dark Wind are right.

Remember: A book, or a film, or a game, or other piece of narrative fiction is up to the individual person viewing it to interpret. A story can be anything you want it to be, and the most powerful stories very often leave it up to the viewer how things really, truly... End, or what they meant. Meaning is as subjective as faith: This film can be seen in a pro-LGBT light and that's a true way of looking at it, it's completely valid. So is the view that it's just a message about being pro-who you are. Whether you back that up with evidence to try and strengthen your case based on how you saw it or not is, also, entirely up to you.

Now if an author really wants to, they can come in and debunk something, state how it is, however, you'll notice this doesn't happen all that often, because most successful authors understand the magic of the viewer's imagination. It's one thing to tell someone what something is, it's another power altogether to have someone draw their own conclusions from what you have created and in doing so make for themselves an entirely new experience you may or may not have intended.

The penultimate goal of fiction is to be either informative or entertaining. Anything and everything else is secondary. So someone coming to their own conclusions about a film's message, whether it's a variation on the overall message, a message within a message, and so on, is just as legitimate a view as taking the work at face value.

[Turtlicious]

Yeah, I mean they even had a transgendered princess before, but you don't see people making fun of Princess Jasmine.

[So Boerd]

Turtlicious said
Yeah, I mean they even had a transgendered princess before, but you don't see people making fun of Princess Jasmine.

Is that some Arab joke? Because if so, that is really unacceptable.

[Turtlicious]

No? It's weird that the first thing you'd think of racism, not everyone sees other people as inferior dude. Maybe you should join us forward thinkers in the 21st century. lmao

http://rambleonamazon.tumblr.com/post/75391607961/can-we-talk-about-dinseys-transgender-princess

What I was talking about.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

Turtlicious said
No? It's weird that the first thing you'd think of racism, not everyone sees other people as inferior dude. Maybe you should join us forward thinkers in the 21st century. lmaoWhat I was talking about.

Jasmine is not transgender unless she's gay like Dumbledore is.

That is, unless it makes Disney money.

[So Boerd]

Turtlicious said
No? It's weird that the first thing you'd think of racism, not everyone sees other people as inferior dude. Maybe you should join us forward thinkers in the 21st century. lmaoWhat I was talking about.

Hear enough rice and bad driver jokes, you start to expect the worst. I am guessing you are white?

Anyway, that is the most tenuous theory I have ever heard.