Russia vs Metal

[Daemon Est Deus Inversus]

I have to say, that up until today, I had felt far more sympathetic toward Putin than his detractors. However, the issues have now hit home. They have struck a nerve in my cold steel heart. They've struck metal.

Polish extreme metallers, Behemoth, along with other artists and road crew were detained in russia last night. At first, reports were saying that the group was being held for "using work visas to promote evil". But that accusation was quickly changed to simply having improper visas.

Read more here:

http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/drama/behemoth-are-detained-in-russia-by-immigration-services-for-being-evil

http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/drama/behemoth-have-been-kicked-out-of-russia

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/may/22/behemoth-ordered-leave-russia-metal

[ApocalypticaGM]

What were you expecting from a very conservative leader whose support lies heavily in the old, traditional, perhaps Christian values? Better yet, what were they expecting? Pussy Riot was detained for women's rights issues, metal often forces us to see expression and people outside the calming, sweet light and lazily dubbed Satanists. This should be no surprise!

[mdk]

ShonHarris said
What were you expecting from a very conservative leader whose support lies heavily in the old, traditional, perhaps Christian values? Better yet, what were they expecting? Pussy Riot was detained for women's rights issues, metal often forces us to see expression and people outside the calming, sweet light and lazily dubbed Satanists. This should be no surprise!

to play devil's advocate for a minute, I've watched the video of the Pussy Riot stunt that got them arrested. They looked like they *really*, *really* wanted to get arrested. Judge for yourself. To be clear: I'm not calling Putin a hero, nor defending the concept of a church-state union. I'm just saying.... I mean..... they're acting like morons in the most intrusive and public way possible. Churches have a right to assemble as well (I assume, in Russia, I guess I don't really know what their constitution is all about).

[ApocalypticaGM]

mdk said
to play devil's advocate for a minute, I've watched the video of the Pussy Riot stunt that got them arrested. They looked like they *really*, *really* wanted to get arrested. . To be clear: I'm not calling Putin a hero, nor defending the concept of a church-state union. I'm just saying.... I mean..... they're acting like morons in the most intrusive and public way possible. Churches have a right to assemble as well (I assume, in Russia, I guess I don't really know what their constitution is all about).

Pussy Riot has a long, sorted past with Russia besides the incident that supposedly led to the arrest. The language used describing them has gotten as extreme as 'terrorists' and all too often they, and those like that, have been battered in response for their protesting. Many of the groups who push for recognition of women's rights will show up very exposed, literally topless, but the police habitually come armed to the tooth and brutal despite the clear lack of protection or weaponry. While short snippets of events can seem extreme, it's important to consider that oppression is not ended quietly. American activists for human rights do not quietly request those immediately around them to perhaps consider another mode of thought. You have to wake people up to see another perspective.

[mdk]

ShonHarris said
Pussy Riot has a long, sorted past with Russia besides the incident that supposedly led to the arrest. The language used describing them has gotten as extreme as 'terrorists' and all too often they, and those like that, have been battered in response for their protesting. Many of the groups who push for recognition of women's rights will show up very exposed, literally topless, but the police habitually come armed to the tooth and brutal despite the clear lack of protection or weaponry. While short snippets of events can seem extreme, it's important to consider that oppression is not ended quietly. American activists for human rights do not quietly request those immediately around them to perhaps consider another mode of thought. You have to wake people up to see another perspective.

You're not wrong. Even Rosa Parks climbed on the bus with the intention of going to prison -- that's a means to an end, and the end is the message. A just message is worth the cost -- and to appreciate all that, you have to appreciate the whole narrative.

I bring it up because, for Pussy Riot especially, nobody seems to know or care what the full narrative is. We like to hear about Pussy Riot for a fifteen-second sound byte so we can be mad for a while -- it's a manipulation thing, maybe justifiable if you care deeply about their message and the state of Russian civics, but to me personally.... it's hooligans doing hooligan stuff, and I feel like I don't need them to be on a pedestal for it. They've gotten plenty of the abuse they asked for, and all I can really say is "Sucks, don't it?" Maybe think about that next time you mock someone's sacred rituals or whatever on international TV. Pissing them off seems a likely outcome. I'll shed no tears for a slapped troll.

[Halo]

Daemon Est Deus Inversus said
I have to say, that up until today, I had felt far more sympathetic toward Putin than his detractors.

I... what? I'd really love to hear the reasoning behind this. And the fact that it's a metal band being detained rather than the increasingly oppressive, territorial, and aggressive policies both internally (e.g. anti-gay policies) and externally (lol crimea) that sways your mind is, again, something I'd like to hear the reasoning for, and that I find somewhat mind-boggling.

[Platanus]

Sacred rituals, sacred rituals... hmmmpf, logic seems quite sacred to me, reason, some hypothetical stuff like human rights or even as imaginary as freedom. Religious institutions have been not only mocking but demolishing, destroying and tearing apart all that for millennia... and no one seems to have taken notice. So when is it our time to be offended? Oh, I have forgotten one little fact: they are the ones in power.
Of course, it is never about sacred rituals, offence, respect or stuff like that. It is always about power.

[Dervish]

Platanus said
Sacred rituals, sacred rituals... hmmmpf, logic seems quite sacred to me, reason, some hypothetical stuff like human rights or even as imaginary as freedom. Religious institutions have been not only mocking but demolishing, destroying and tearing apart all that for millennia... and no one seems to have taken notice. So when is it our time to be offended? Oh, I have forgotten one little fact: they are the ones in power.Of course, it is never about sacred rituals, offence, respect or stuff like that. It is always about power.

Except for the whole fact that it was mainly the church driving scientific advancement in the middle ages and a lot of what we know about history is directly because of the fact that monks and priests were among the most literate people in the world and recorded everything painstakingly by hand so knowledge wouldn't be lost to future generations.

Oops.