[OOC] We'll take the low road.

[cthulu]

A man cheating was just an accepted thing a 100 years ago, it was a shame for the wife and yes pitiable but it was considered normal by anyone who did hear of it and as long as it wasn't blustered all over town and shouted from roof tops it was considered insignificant. I digress though, Illiendi honestly couldn't care less what Amano thinks of any other human, he could hate Laiza, Love her, Admire her, whatever it wouldn't affect Illiendi at all. Illiendi doesn't particularly like her, I honestly can't say why above the mentioned reasons but he just doesn't. However that will not affect his work for Amano in the least, she'll be treated as anyone else would be as he's not one to force his views on another.

As for the 'playful insults' perhaps that is my own jaded view, there is a fine line between tolerated for another's benefit and accepted and many people don't know that line and drive people to rash and stupid decisions by continually prodding at someone who is attempting but failing to take it in good humour. While I have seen some people take it in humour I have known them to behind closed doors admit they hate it and wish the other would stop. I've seen relationships broken not by the big things but by these little 'playful pokes' and I've seen people hit rock bottom and truly self-loathing because of them. I don't think Illiendi is tarnished by my personal views on the matter but I will keep an eye on it.

While Raoul's wife is pitiful and sad in a sense it is not her 'does anything her husband says' attitude that makes me/Illiendi like her. She's polite, kind, sweetly spoken and clearly loves her husband. Perhaps he beats her if she doesn't show him respect? I don't know she's your NPC but from Illiendi's viewpoint he prefers her to Laiza. Of course ultimately that's like picking one robin over another because it's red feathers are brighter. He honestly doesn't care, he's as old as the planet, to him Laiza, Amano, Gavin, Raoul, the lot will be gone in a blink of an eye and no one gets overly bothered by a robin they briefly see while whizzing passed in a car.

and while his mum should indeed have dumped Amano's dad's arse a long time ago its a sad truth that most women will not leave an abusive husband no matter the type of abuse and the numbers go down when children are involved.

[PopeAlessandros]

I think.. . . .This is going to be interesting. . . .

See, Amano can give orders, he really can, but he's NEVER going to stop trying to get Illiendi to UNDERSTAND him. He doesn't want to use the demon as a tool, so he's never gonna stop trying to get him to see what he's talking about. He understands that Illiendi is immortal, and that his time on earth is a mere bat of an eye, but. . .I get the feeling that Amano isn't going to accept that as a reason not to let himself see through a human's eyes :P I really hope that doesn't mess this whole thing up. . . .

Also, I'm sorry you went though some bad crap, and that you see such words as ones that always cut deep. However I would like you to understand that: She did not insult him. She pointed out a fault he knows he has an is working on, and he's glad she doesn't look down on him for it. His accepting of what she says does not hurt him in any way. I know that's how it is for a lot of people, but some people simply have very open and understanding relationships that allow them to speak openly and honestly with no hidden pain. That is the relationship they have, and it makes me smile.

Raoul does not beat her, but her father did. She doesn't actually love Raoul as she's barely gotten to know him. Love is not a factor in her life. She is his wife, and it is simple a role she has to play.

I understand how earth worked back then, but I really, REALLY hate how earth worked back then, so you will excuse me if I take the liberty to shat all over that man run dung heap that this era is based off of every chance I get :P Also, I am not a man hating woman, I am a misogynist hating man :P 90% of the history of men running the world and women being less than them, I would like to trash it the best I can as I can not abide such foolishness. I understand that that is earth's history, but we don't need it, seriously, it does not need to exist here. It would just make this whole RP suck for me. . . .

[cthulu]

Wow I can tell you were annoyed in that post. Illiendi didn't insult anyone in my last post, in fact he apologized and explained a Maarth custom to them. I think you're being rather purposely unfair to him in that post. I get its clearly a strong point of view for you and that's fine but he never said he liked little slave girls who do whatever a man says. If he did he wouldn't like Amano's mother. Yes he doesn't agree what they have is 'love' in his eyes/mind so to speak, remembering the word lvoe to him conjours a whole different world to what it does for humans and yes he finds Laiza rude but that doesn't mean he doesn't like women who speak their mind. His mistresses (of which he's had two) were both outspoken women in their time with their own minds and opinions but they were respectful and well spoken on the matter. They acted like women not children on the matter, I will post a reply to that post but I am keeping my own personal views out of this rp and I'd really like for you to try and do the same.

Just so its clear I don't like people who swear and curse and act like fools, I appreciate a clever mind a quick wit and someone who can be honest without being purposely brutal. Men, women, other it doesn't matter, respect costs nothing and means everything to me. So I'm hardly a woman hater either before you get the wrong idea on me.

[PopeAlessandros]

No matter how he said it, this phrase right here, is insulting - "However in my country if a woman spoke of the one she was to wed as you speak of him, you would be considered of lower worth than our cattle."

That is what Amano is responding to. He finds that particular phrase to mean that that is how Illiendi views his best friend, even though to him, she's done nothing to garner such a judgement. She didn't swear. Calling someone an ass, as in one who is stubborn, is not a swear in my book. I would love to claim that none of myself was in that post, but I simply can't as I happen to agree with Amano on this. I am sorry if it came across like I'm on a crusade or something, and I'm sorry if it bothers you, really I am. I did not mean to. To me, it's all about implication. "He's treated my mother like a goddess, he's gone out of his way to spend time with my sister-in-law, but here, with my best friend, all he can say is she's acting like low born cattle?" I know that to Illiendi the other women may be more important in his eyes, but to Amano such thinks as likening his best friend to bovine is rude and mean.

An "I'm sorry" followed up by a "But you some form of lesser creature since you acted like that" is not an sincere apology. He may not have said that he thinks less of women, but you say what he did implies he does not disagree with the sentiment. Laiza is a well spoken women, and very polite when she has to be, but around her friend and lover, she likes joshing around and talking like "One of the guys". It doens't help that her father was a sailor.

I seriously don't get where you get the rude from. She calls things like she sees them, and I saw no child there, just someone who's relaxed enough not to "Watch her tongue". I can't help that Amano got upset, I really can't that's his thing. I personally see her pointing out her lover's faults AS a sign of respect. She respects him enough to not sugar coat the facts nor skirt around them.

I'll admit, I like Laiza, and hate Amano's mother and sister-in-law. To me they seem weak and pathetic. I'm sorry that I can't come up with a wittier way to put that. It's just the truth through my eyes. Believe it or not, Laiza really like Illiendi. He seems like he would be fun to argue with. She likes that he's unperturbed, at least on the outside, by her less than lady like behavior beyond expressing that he doesn't approve of it, or at least that's the feeling she got. I seriously don't get where you get to fool thing, I really don't. She's happy for her friend, and is a very bouncy person. Amano loves her for that, and that she can be so open with the man she loves, and by Illiendi making it sound like he thinks less of her for aspects he respects, he's torn.

I'm pretty sure I'm talking in circles at this point, and I'm contemplating just asking if we could scrub this whole bit out of the RP and not ever have these two meet as it seems she's stepped on some toes and brought some sour feelings between the two of us. . .In fact, I'm asking now, can we just remove this and start from them heading out to eat? I hate that this character I enjoy is just making this RP hell right now. . .And now I'm crying, damnit. . . . .

[PopeAlessandros]

I deleted the posts with Laiza, it's just not worth it.

[cthulu]

Honestly I don't mind Laiza and Gavin while they seem very 'anime' couple-y to me its interesting to see how you think a relationship ought to be. If Illiendi hated Laiza he would have killed her already. If he thought she was a cow he would have said MY opinion and not the COUNTRY he's faking to be from. His intention was to diffuse it by saying 'sorry this was what I was bought up believing' but instead she/you took it as a personal attack. I mean here in England its considered a bit rude to burp at dinner but if you DON'T burp at dinner in India it's considered very rude. It's a difference in cultures and for Amano, Gavin and Laiza to sit there mentally cussing Illiendi out for doing his best to point out he was just raised thinking differently seems more of an OOC attack than an IC one. Yeah Illiendi is going to seem a bit alien because very basically he IS, he was created an Angel, superior in every way, gods first children etc etc. Pick up a bible and check yourself they have ego issues. AND he's a demon, he lost EVERYTHING his creators love, which if you read the bible was devastating to the fallen angels more than being cast from heaven, his home, his wings, his identity. He's gone from being one of the most important beings, experiencing the PUREST form of love there can ever be, to being locked in an eternal nightmare cut off from that love for longer than most life has been on this planet. He's watched humanity take his beautiful home and destroy it, he's watched them move ever closer to destroying the entire planet with their selfish greed and inability to see further than their expanse of their own short lives. To think he was ever going to be, especially this early on, anything but anti-human is silly and to expect him to cast aside thousands of years of lores, cultures, religions and conform just to what Amano wants him to is insane. He's not a pet he's a demon wasting some time because he's bored.

I'd honestly rather you just leave the posts in, even if I don't like Laiza so what? There's bound to be things we don't agree on and that's not a bad thing. I still remember the post so I'm going to reply to it as is. Gavin and Laiza there, unless you truly honestly tell me you don't want her there. You like her and honestly this upset is hardly going to go away just because the posts have. You still think very little of me/Illiendi and I'll know Amano will always look down on Illiendi if he ever shows any other way of thinking than Amano's.

[PopeAlessandros]

"You still think very little of me/Illiendi and I'll know Amano will always look down on Illiendi if he ever shows any other way of thinking than Amano's."

That's not fair. I do not think little of you, or him. I don't expect him to just suddenly bend to Amano's way of thinking. Not ever. I swear to you, on all things that make me breath, that Amano reacted honestly. I wrote through his eyes at how things appeared to him. I took out the posts because it honestly hurts to write her knowing how you feel about her. Knowing that all she's doing right now is upsetting the plot. You don't like her, Illiendi doesn't like her, and as long as she continues to be a part of the plot I will feel pain when I'm writing, and I RP to enjoy myself, not hurt. I understand the cultural differences, I understand being raised differently, and I say again Illiendi is free to think what he wants, and so are you. I just know now that when I think of writing for this RP I do not smile, I cower, and I don't like that. I think this particular viewpoint was premature, to be expressed and explored at a later date.

The fact that what I find adorable and loving you find rude and foolish does worry me a bit, but again, I think this is something to be addressed later, when we have a better feel for things, and each other. Also, Illiendi is a very confusing character. He expects to be used as a tool, wonders why Amano goes out of his way to explain things, and yet from what you said up there he would be insulted to be treated as such. A tool and a pet are very much the same in my eyes. . .I d'know. . . That quote up there, about me thinking little of you and him, and about Amano hating him for thinking differently, it's just not true. All I know is that since introducing her into the plot it has become very unpleasant for me. . . .Maybe I'm just overly sensitive since my own personal relationship is a lot like theirs. If I'm being dumb, M tells me, and if he's being lazy, I tell him. I personally hate cussing and don't do it often, neither does he, though you and I have different definitions for cussing methinks.

If you decide to write from that point I'll have her leave on business or something and see what I can do with the shredded bits of Amano's feelings. I'll do my best to get him to explain, if Illiendi cares to listen, that he's not looking down on the him and was just struck with the suddenness of it. . .I really like RPing with you, but as long as Laiza is around, for this RP at least, all I wanna do is cry because I feel I seriously messed up by bringing her in. . . .

[cthulu]

I'll be posting soon but you really think a tool and a pet are the same things?
As that sort of worries me a bit. I'd never think of using my pets as anything but a conduit for my affections and that doesn't make them tools. They're living breathing feeling creatures.

[PopeAlessandros]

To be trained, commanded, loved, and cared for. I love my dog, and shower her with affection, but I use her to guard the house and me when I'm out late at night. A pet is there, in no uncertain terms, for the owner's amusement. Yes, they are happy to be with their owner if they are a good owner, but that does not make them human or anything. I'll admit, I like my dog far more than my screwdriver, and to that end I think Illiendi would be better viewed as a pet since that is far more pleasant an outlook, but the fact remains that she is my possession and I use her for my amusement. Don't get the wrong idea, I really do love my dog, but all pets serve a purpose and in all respects, a tool to be used by their owner, even if it's a fish that is used as a stress reliever for a over worked college student.

So to me, pets are tools I love rather than just use, maintain, and store. Sorry if that makes me sound evil or something.

[PopeAlessandros]

I have come to the conclusion that I should no longer talk about my personal views here. . . .

[cthulu]

Why?

[PopeAlessandros]

They just seem to upset me and I mostly just stress about saying the wrong thing and losing one of my favorite partners. I create my own stress.

[cthulu]

I see, don't worry I do the same thing in other areas of my life.
Well for your own peace of mind nothing you've said has annoyed me to the point I'd want to quit this or any other rp or rping with you. Nor can i think of much that you could say that would, so don't worry. :)

[PopeAlessandros]

*Flops* *Feels much better* *Wonders what you think about the pet thing now*

[cthulu]

I honestly can't seem y pets as tools, my cats aren't hunters, they come and go as they please, when they want attention they get it and when they don't I'm happy to leave them to their own devices. It's why I like cats as pets they're minimal work and sometimes more loyal than dogs. Honestly though I think each to their own. Same with relationships.

[cthulu]

Posted

[PopeAlessandros]

*Imagines sudden pouty face on Amano* *Giggles*

[PopeAlessandros]

Post! Sorry it took so long, RL been kickin' my butt too :P

[cthulu]

Posted :) x