ISIS in Iraq

[Vortex]

TheMadAsshatter said
I don't want to come back to the "It's just Islam" argument

Well you failed at that...

TheMadAsshatter said but I swear, if Islam were a bit more liberal/progressive in their views, none of this shit would be happening

Uh huh... So lets just forget about Colonialism, Western Intervention and the Greed for Oil and strategic positions in the middle east. Yeah they dont matter.

TheMadAsshatter said If I had to guess, I would say about 85% of the problems in the Middle East comes from the socio-religious schisms between the different branches, denominations, and levels of moderation in the whole of the Muslim/Islamic faiths

Again, our western meddling ways have nothing to do with the insecurity issues the middle east has? Scroll back up a couple of posts to Brovos post or... I don't know, read a history book?

TheMadAsshatter said and if they didn't believe that they fundamentally had to kill people to get their way

Wow... Just wow. Would you please give me some solid evidence that says Islam is a religion of war and that other religions like Christianity is not?

TheMadAsshatter said I don't have a problem with Islamic people in and of themselves

Rly?

TheMadAsshatter said but when about 70 to 90 percent of the Middle Eastern population is comprised of Islamic extremists

Wheres that statistic coming from? Fox news?

TheMadAsshatter said I remember seeing this video of a sort of Islamic gathering where a speaker basically answered the question of extremism, and he asked the crowd how many people believed that certain people deserve death and practically everyone in the fucking room raised their hand. if you don't believe me, skip to about 2:20 and watch it from there

How about you go to the deep south/hillbilly country/any rightwing/fundamentalist place and ask the people there how many Muslims/Gays/Atheists/Socialists deserve to die, most of them will raise their hand.

TheMadAsshatter said Let me make my perspective clear. I do not hate Islamic people. I hate Islam itself, not the people who practice it, because of exactly this.

Thats like me saying Christianity is a stupid thing where people pray to a imaginary god in the sky. Christians are going to get pissed. Just saying.

TheMadAsshatter said It is a hateful and dogmatic religion that has absolutely no place in modern society

Neither does any other religion then.

[Vortex]

Revans Exile said
Nuke the shit hole of a country and be done with it, cheaper & faster.

Your disregard for human life is amazing

[TheMadAsshatter]

I live in Texas, FFS, I am well aware of the deep South's bullshit. I know that Islam isn't the only one that sucks ass, and I could say similar things about Christianity, and even Judaism, but I'm trying to stay on topic. Yes, there are other factors, yes I kinda pulled that statistic out of my ass, but I do think that the biggest factor in pretty much all of the bullshit going on in the Middle East currently is religion.

[Meth Quokka]

To voice my thoughts on the matter as succintly as a I can, the religion Islam is not a religion of war but the way in which it is practiced and shown towards the world is that of an aggressive, hyper-active religion that seeks to crush anything that opposes it. This is because of the stance taken by fundamentalists which unfortunately in the Middle East seem to hold the sway of power leaving a situation that's far too difficult to change. Yes, the history of coloniasm by Europe and the American presence has exarsceberated the situation since way back with the Crusades (the real boiling point) of even before with the Roman Empire (start of the burner). Unfortunately it's far too simplistic to blame it all on Western Influences because the Sunni Shia conflicts have been raging since the 7th century. To put this into contrast, the protestant catholic wars raged for maybe 200-300 years but here we're talking about more than 1300 years of almost ceaseless religious conflict.

The Middle East will always be a hotbed as long as this conflict rages unfortunately, just like Western Europe was in the 15th-17th centuries in terms of religious conflict. The key to solving the conflict is resolving those religious differences between Sunni and Shia, before we can even begin with Christianity and Judaism, which will prove a difficult task as in the western world the prevalence of religion is failing whereas it seems that it is only getting more extremist in the Midle East.

[So Boerd]

How about you go to the deep south/hillbilly country/any rightwing/fundamentalist place and ask the people there how many Muslims/Gays/Atheists/Socialists deserve to die, most of them will raise their hand.

Check your privilege. Just because the Deep South is more black than the upscale neighborhood you inhabit doesn't make it a genocidal society and to suggest otherwise is hateful and bigoted.

Gonna need a source.

[The Nexerus]

It's silly to pretend that all of the third world's problems have Western countries to blame for them.

Islam, as not only a religious but also a well-defined political and social ideology, is incompatible with secular and forward-thinking Western society. Practices like levying higher taxes on non-Muslims and exercising severe, permanent physical injury as punishment for minor crimes are incomprehensible ideas in Western countries.

[So Boerd]

But don't you understand Nex? Colonialism is the cause of all evils. That is why Ethiopia and Liberia are such model states, and states like Morocco, Egypt and South Africa are the poorest on the continent. Can't you just imagine how much better the stone age societies of the New World would have been if they were left to cut each other's hearts out? Damn those evil Europeans introducing modern technology and helping Japan industrialize into one of the wealthiest states!

Note, before you all jump down my throat, I am not defending cruel colonialism, I am just saying that it is in fact, NOT, the whole reason the world is a mess.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

The Nexerus said
It's silly to pretend that all of the third world's problems have Western countries to blame for them.Islam, as not only a religious but also a well-defined political and social ideology, is incompatible with secular and forward-thinking Western society. Practices like levying higher taxes on non-Muslims and exercising severe, permanent physical injury as punishment for minor crimes are incomprehensible ideas in Western countries.

Quick, ban the heretic!

[So Boerd]

ActRaiserTheReturned said
Quick, ban the heretic!

We must be tolerant by shunning him! If we don't shut people up we disagree with, we won't be open-minded!

[Vortex]

Ok this is a fault in my part. I should have cleared it by saying That yes religion has a role to play in this conflict i was just pointing out to TheMadAsshatter that he is also leaving out Colonialism as a factor to why the Middle East (and other places) is so deep in conflicts and other struggles.

The Nexerus said
Islam, as not only a religious but also a well-defined political and social ideology, is incompatible with secular and forward-thinking Western society.

Sorry but how is Islam a political and social ideology?

The Nexerus said
Practices like levying higher taxes on non-Muslims and exercising severe, permanent physical injury as punishment for minor crimes are incomprehensible ideas in Western countries.

I also like to think western society thinks that but you might be surprised how much intolerance western societies can have (im speaking from a personal level). Im not saying western society actually practices it but the idea still remains. Also as a forward thinking western society should we not have any corporal punishment?

So Boerd said
But don't you understand Nex? Colonialism is the cause of all evils. That is why Ethiopia and Liberia are such model states, and states like Morocco, Egypt and South Africa are the poorest on the continent. Can't you just imagine how much better the stone age societies of the New World would have been if they were left to cut each other's hearts out? Damn those evil Europeans introducing modern technology and helping Japan industrialize into one of the wealthiest states!Note, before you all jump down my throat, I am not defending cruel colonialism, I am just saying that it is in fact, NOT, the whole reason the world is a mess.

Im getting the strange feeling that this is sarcasm. If its not do say so i can reply.

[So Boerd]

Vortex said
Ok this is a fault in my part. I should have cleared it by saying That yes religion has a role to play in this conflict i was just pointing out to TheMadAsshatter that he is also leaving out Colonialism as a factor to why the Middle East (and other places) is so deep in conflicts and other struggles.Sorry but how is Islam a political and social ideology?I also like to think western society thinks that but you might be surprised how much intolerance western societies can have (im speaking from a personal level). Im not saying western society actually practices it but the idea still remains. Also as a forward thinking western society should we not have any corporal punishment?Im getting the strange feeling that this is sarcasm. If its not do say so i can reply.

The first part is sarcasm, everything after "note" is serious.

[Vortex]

Got it

[So Boerd]

Vortex said
Got it

So...are you going to respond?

[Vortex]

Its sarcasm so what would be the point??

[So Boerd]

Sarcasm still illustrates a point. My point is that the impact of colonialism is totally overblown.

[The Nexerus]

Christianity preaches to give unto God what is God's and onto Caesar what is Caesar's. Islam has specific legal and political guidelines for how society is to be governed, and is much more socially and behaviourally pervasive than Christianity (and most other religions in general).

[Vortex]

So Boerd said
Sarcasm still illustrates a point. My point is that the impact of colonialism is totally overblown.

While it may be overblown you cant deny the large impact it has had on the world.

The Nexerus said
Christianity preaches to give unto God what is God's and onto Caesar what is Caesar's. Islam has specific legal and political guidelines for how society is to be governed, and is much more socially and behaviourally pervasive than Christianity (and most other religions in general).

That still does not make it a ideology but a religion telling us how to live our lives. Hmm... Not so different to every other religion...

[So Boerd]

Other than the immediate, tangible, atrocities which were horrific, I would say Colonialism has been a neutral force. Creating states across national lines and not along them was bad, but the technological and industrial technology was good. It is like the Hundred Year's War: Bad for being a needless war but good for sowing the seeds of English and French nationalism and the transistion from seeing states as the private concerns of rulers.

[scribz]

Something something John Mccain helping support ISIS members indirectly throughout his support to bring down Asssad in 2013. Go puppet states and shit.

[The Nexerus]

Vortex said Not so different to every other religion...

Blatantly wrong. Read the first sentence of the post that you just quoted.