ACA supreme court ruling, re Religious Exception

[mdk]

Read the article here, and read the full text here.

A step in the right direction, I think (but who would've expected otherwise from me?) Though, I suspect there's plenty of conversation to be had about it. What are your thoughts?

[TheMadAsshatter]

I have to subscribe in order to read a fucking news article. Thanks, Wall Street Journal, you motherfucking pricks!

[Brovo]

Oh. Joy.

[Kidd]

I'm very annoyed with people having an opinion without fully understanding. I personally don't agree with the decision, but it's not being fairly represented (surprise, surprise).

This is the ruling--same as you posted.

This is it in layman's terms: "the families that own Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties are deeply religious and do not want to make four of those twenty kinds of birth control – IUDs and the 'morning after' pill — available to their female employees because they believe that it would make them complicit in abortion. Today the Court agreed that they don’t have to."

This still leaves women working for these few corporations with 16 options in birth control.

Now, I personally don't agree with the ruling, but people are acting like they've stopped supplying contraceptives altogether. And that is just not the case. And I think a lot of people would change their minds if they understood the whole story.

[HeySeuss]

Hobby Lobby 401K Discovered to be Investor in Numerous Abortion and Contraception Products while Claiming Religious Objection.

I'll let the article do the talking for me on the issue of just how breathtakingly hypocritical their objections are.

On the other hand, I have to wonder if employers also feel that they get to tell me how to spend my paycheck. "Buy American cars only! Lube is for fun-sex and therefore immoral. Don't even think about buying that ham, you might eat it on friday!"

In the end, healthcare packages are part of employee compensation, payment for their work. I feel the injured party here are the employees, specifically the individuals who are being compensated for their work, but then being told what to do with that compensation.

[The Nexerus]

HeySeuss said On the other hand, I have to wonder if employers also feel that they get to tell me how to spend my paycheck. "Buy American cars only! Lube is for fun-sex and therefore immoral. Don't even think about buying that ham, you might eat it on friday!"

That is a nonsensical comparison.

[Brovo]

The Nexerus said
That is a nonsensical comparison.

You're right. It isn't as extreme as telling someone they cannot use certain birth control methods because it might piss off the Aztec Sun God.

It should be up to the individual employee to decide. Not the company.

[mdk]

Brovo said
You're right. It isn't as extreme as telling someone they cannot use certain birth control methods because it might piss off the Aztec Sun God. It should be up to the individual employee to decide. Not the company.

It is. The only thing at question was, does the individual get to tell the government to force other individuals to pay for their decision. That's been ruled unconstitutional. You can still take whatever you want, and according to this decision, you can still tell the government to pay for it; the only thing that's been overruled is the (federal) government's power to make someone pay for something that violates their beliefs. Or to keep the aztec sun god comparison alive,they can't make you participate in the human sacrifice. If you choose to sacrifice humans for whatever reason, that's still fine according to this ruling, but no one can make you do it.

[Brovo]

Hmm...

Alright. Then I have nothing against that. *amicable*

[mdk]

Get in your licks until someone calls you on your fantasy then walk away as if you were never flat-out wrong. Amicable he says.

[Brovo]

mdk said
Get in your licks until someone calls you on your fantasy then walk away as if you were never flat-out wrong. Amicable he says.

? Never said I was right. You explained it to me like I was five. I got it, it made sense, does not really violate anyone's rights... So okay, I'm good with it. Yes it means my stance on it changed. Just means I am capable of rational thought. :p

Thus, "amicable".

Though if you want to mock someone who is ordinarily your ideological opposite for agreeing with you... Be my guest I suppose?

[Frizan]

That's just how most people roll, Brovo. If you're firm in your beliefs, they call you closed-minded/stupid. If you see reason and actually change stances, they call you a coward/double-backer.

[mdk]

my drugs made me crazy last night. Apologies. I fucked up.

Those smiley faces get under my skin fast when I'm medicated and I can't really explain why.

[Frizan]

Oh yeah, I can relate about the smilies. Especially when people seem to use them after every sentence. For myself, the best I can describe it is that it makes me feel like you're being a condescending prick when you use them everywhere.

[mdk]

Frizan said
Oh yeah, I can relate about the smilies. Especially when people seem to use them after every sentence. For myself, the best I can describe it is that it makes me feel like you're being a condescending prick when you use them everywhere.

but this is like a routine thing now. If I stay up after taking my prescriptions, then smilies make me furious. Also when I get drunk I cut my own hair. I have these strange quirks. It's not someone else's fault.

[Brovo]

mdk said
my drugs made me crazy last night. Apologies. I fucked up.Those smiley faces get under my skin fast when I'm medicated and I can't really explain why.

We all have our oddities. I know I have more than my fair share, so all good.

[Smiral]

Natural selection at work

[Gwazi Magnum]

To clarify in advance, didn't read the article cause I have no plans to subscribe.
And I do not have the time to read a very long paper on it, so I'll respond according to the info already provided.

So essentially from what I understand, the employees can still use all 20 kinds of birth control, it's just their employer only pays for 16 for them and the other 4 is covered by the government? If so, I don't see any harm. As much as I disagree with the companies religious reasoning, it isn't actually causing anyone harm in this case. So there's no real reason for me to argue against it...

If however I misunderstood this and those other 4 methods must be paid for by the employee... then there's an issue. I'm going to assume in this situation birth control is already an accepted kind of insurance/health care feature. Which means it is everyone's legal right, for an employer to say "If you _____ or _____ method you pay for it yourself" seems the same as them going "If you treat cancer with _______" you won't be covered.

I mean if you logically look at it, that employer pays their workers a wage. Once paid that money is not the employers but the employees, and a good amount of that money is going to be spent on things that they disagree with. But they don't get any right over that, so why should the method one chooses to use their insurance be something the employer has control over?

Brovo said Never said I was right. You explained it to me like I was five. I got it, it made sense, does not really violate anyone's rights... So okay, I'm good with it. Yes it means my stance on it changed. Just means I am capable of rational thought. :pThus, "amicable".Though if you want to mock someone who is ordinarily your ideological opposite for with you... Be my guest I suppose?

I know this was already resolved, but I do admit I did also find this odd.
Brovo chose to be open-minded and alter his position when proper evidence/arguments were shown... and he was criticized for it. o.O

Then again, like Frizan basically said people have this awful tendency to call people who don't agree with them close minded or "always needing to be right" (My sister says this to me whenever she tries to argue something but I'm not buying it... But seriously she should stop using PETA as her only source for things :P), but if you change your mind your unloyal, a floater etc.

Lose-lose situation... I really wish more people got the concept of skepticism/open-minded but requires a certain standard of evidence.

[Brovo]

Magic Magnum said I know this was already resolved, but I do admit I did also find this odd.Brovo chose to be open-minded and alter his position when proper evidence/arguments were shown... and he was criticized for it. o.OThen again, like Frizan basically said people have this awful tendency to call people who don't agree with them close minded or "always needing to be right" (My sister says this to me whenever she tries to argue something but I'm not buying it... But seriously she should stop using PETA as her only source for things :P), but if you change your mind your unloyal, a floater etc.Lose-lose situation... I really wish more people got the concept of skepticism/open-minded but requires a certain standard of evidence.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I can't tell if you reading more into it than your meant to so you're getting another message, or if you're referring to people who don't get the concept of skepticism.