Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

[Ebonsquire]

@Gowi

You know, I think that my vexation might be slightly misplaced. I think that whenever I refer to people who play 5-6 characters in a thread, what REALLY pisses me off is when they have like four of their own characters roleplay with each other for an extended period of time.

I mean, if it's absolutely necessary to the storyline, then okay, but . . . seriously? To me, the entire point of a roleplay is to play a role in a grand-scheme-of-things universe which generally involves the contribution of other creative minds. Just playing off a storyline by oneself with their own self-made characters (ESPECIALLY with others involved) is like . . . Just go write a novel. They're free to do what they want, sure, but egh. I wouldn't want that in any of my roleplays. I think it's also kind of sad, personally, but, once again, that's just me.

It's all about preferences, I guess. I haven't stumbled across too many occurrences like this, but when they do happen, they put me in a bit of a sour mood.

[Gowi]

To me, the entire point of a roleplay is to play a role in a grand-scheme-of-things universe which generally involves the contribution of other creative minds.

And people can play multiple characters and still contribute/interact with the creations of other players involved. I highly doubt those people with “excessive character creation” frames are on here to write in a vacuum— they want their characters, no matter their amount of number, to interact with others. It shouldn’t bar them from being able to interact either; it should not matter if Player A’s three characters are in a scene with each other if it makes logical sense that their interaction takes place as long as they do not any other player characters who engage with them.

I think it's also kind of sad,

Writing off people with belittling presumptions like this, really won’t help your case. I sort of understand where you are coming from even if I don’t necessarily agree or relate to it, but painting other people just gives off an impression to other people of how you think of other people and how you act in public. It’s pretty sad that you don’t see how this is a toxic way to think less alone state in a dialogue with another writer. It creates a poor public image and it most certainly is counter-productive to the conversation you want to have here.

[Frettzo]

@Gowi
I mean, if it's absolutely necessary to the storyline, then okay, but . . . seriously? To me, the entire point of a roleplay is to play a role in a grand-scheme-of-things universe which generally involves the contribution of other creative minds. Just playing off a storyline by oneself with their own self-made characters (ESPECIALLY with others involved) is like . . . Just go write a novel.

@Ebonsquire

I agree with you here, but I think my peeve with it leans more toward excessively long posts, no matter the amount of characters involved. I've seen some roleplays in my time that have players write posts that consist of thousands of words. What do they describe with those thousands of words? A scene where someone's drinking tea.

Sure, I'm exaggerating a little, but you can see examples of what I mean when you read most collaborative posts.

I've also seen some really great collabs and posts which are no longer than four paragraphs. Really makes one think.

[Gowi]

A collaboration should only really be as long as the scene needs it to be— if it needs to be long and detailed, fine; if it needs to be short and to the point, good. Whatever works.

[Frettzo]

A collaboration should only really be as long as the scene needs it to be— if it needs to be long and detailed, fine; if it needs to be short and to the point, good.

@Gowi

Agreed.

[AtlasRedfox]

How about people who expect you to remind them to post and are so dependent on complacency that they have to be mentioned. No dude, I’m not going to tell you to post— it’s your responsibility to have that much dedication and courtesy towards your fellow players to read and post on your own time. Don’t be lazy.

@Gowi

- I very politely gave a mention to someone after waiting a week or so for them to post (it was a character coversation and I was waiting on a reply before I could progress). I thought they might of just dropped out without letting know.

Well holy fuck was that the wrong thing to do, after that I got a whole series of mentions bullying ME to post. I think it was just a little miscommunication at the time but there was no need to be an ass about it all.

Side Note: A little irk of mine at the moment are character personalities that are 'friendly, easy going and want to get along with everyone'.
Fuck that.
I want characters that are dysfunctional, hard to get along with and push other characters buttons. Let's not all hold hands and sing Coombyah.

Edit: I hate auto-correct.

[Gowi]

I personally like making apprehensive characters— one of the ones I’m about to introduce to a group to see dynamic is a thirteen year old arrogant brat who swears as often as she condescends. She’s going to be a lot of fun.

[Tarquin]

Side Note: A little irk of mine at the moment are character personalities that are 'friendly, easy going and want to get along with everyone'.

@AtlasRedfox

Even better when they have a little extra bit about becoming a super cold badass when they have to be, giving them carte blanche to act as they see fit when they want to stop being friendly.

EVEN BETTER when the same people talk about wanting more conflict while their characters are busily getting along with everyone else.

[NuttsnBolts]

So I can see several aspects that are being discussed here.

- Multiple characters:
We have nation role plays that have 20 characters per person, so what's wrong with 2 or 3 characters that you control to help flesh out your personal story. Some people want to explore a role play from multiple angles and in the RP that I'm in I have an Australian who loves silence and is a hardarse; and another character that is a mentally unstable, music loving nutcase. The two conflict each other but I know when I play them together I can show each side easily cause they're my characters.

- Collabs:
Love and loath them. Been in some where I'm a third character in the room and cause the two other players were impatient to write, my character was supposed to be a statue during their argument. That is bad collab work.
Good collab work is discussing all options and talking to all possible players. Even clarifying if a character is going to shrug or just say "yes". Long collabs are important as they cover all the important points, but as Gowi said, they are only as long as they need to be. If you have a problem with that, then maybe re-evaluate your view on the RP as everyone is entitled to their own spotlight moment, not just yourself.

- Player involvement
You joined the RP, it's your responsibility to post. End of story. Its not the GMs position to chase up players... EVER!

[Kitty Pryde]

98% of 1x1 Interest Checks = 1x1 Cybersex Interest Checks

Seriously, it needs to be improved and for it to be separated from other 1x1 roleplays and interest checks not looking for sexual content.

I hope the higher-ups takes my post into consideration but I won't get too excited.

[Frettzo]

everyone is entitled to their own spotlight moment, not just yourself.

@NuttsnBolts

I understand that, but then it becomes a problem when every single post of theirs is unnecessarily long. Besides, the 'spotlight' doesn't necessarily depend on how many words of fluff you put into your pieces.

[NuttsnBolts]

<Snipped quote by NuttsnBolts>

I understand that, but then it becomes a problem when every single post of theirs is unnecessarily long. Besides, the 'spotlight' doesn't necessarily depend on how many words of fluff you put into your pieces.

@Frettzo

That's simply personal preference. All my posts are generally at least 3,000 characters (my longest is about 7,000). Anything less then that and I don't view it as worth putting up.

It sounds like there are two people with different expectations on their writing style. :\

[Gowi]

but then it becomes a problem when every single post of theirs is unnecessarily long.

What is unnecessarily long?

But I do agree with Nuts, my average post is around 1,000+ characters and I feel anything underneath by my hands is worthless. Such posts underneath that threshold do not have proper introspection or characterization to warrant a post and are decidedly uninspired.

[Ebonsquire]

And people can play multiple characters and still contribute/interact with the creations of other players involved. I highly doubt those people with “excessive character creation” frames are on here to write in a vacuum— they want their characters, no matter their amount of number, to interact with others. It shouldn’t bar them from being able to interact either; it should not matter if Player A’s three characters are in a scene with each other if it makes logical sense that their interaction takes place as long as they do (ignore?) not any other player characters who engage with them.

@Gowi

No, no. You're right in this case. I understand that there are people who can conjure up an abundance of characters (50, just to over-exaggerate) and still be able to expose every individual to the other players involved. And I'm fine with two or three or six or even seven characters that belong to one player engaging in discourse with each other, but when it's an extended period of time . . . Like I said, it's a strange, strange preference of mine. Call me an ass or whatever, but it's something that's hard for me to shake.

...but painting other people just gives off an impression to other people of how you think of other people and how you act in public. It’s pretty sad that you don’t see how this is a toxic way to think less alone state in a dialogue with another writer. It creates a poor public image and it most certainly is counter-productive to the conversation you want to have here.

@Gowi

Oof. Hohkay then.

@Gowi

[Frettzo]

<Snipped quote>

What is unnecessarily long?

@Gowi

By unnecessary I mean things like fluffing things up, which is something I see a lot. For example, there have been cases where I've seen people take from two sentences to an entire paragraph to describe a single movement in a fight scene, a situation perfect for short and to-the-point writing. Another example would be two philosophers debating, a post I'd understand if it was long due to its very nature, but again I've seen cases where the two characters discuss in such a manner that a post that'd easily and comfortably fall around 1.000-1.200 words ends up being 3.000 words long.

Bleh, I realize my general dislike of long posts is irrational and not courteous (discourteous?), but it's just one of those quirks of mine that persist.

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It's funny, I've realized where my dislike of long posts comes from now. There was once a situation when a player wrote 20.000 words, I kid you not, of their character in an empty room. Ever since that day, I find it hard to read long posts here. Maybe this marks the start of my rehabilitation? XD

[Gowi]

By unnecessary I mean things like fluffing things up, which is something I see a lot.

@Frettzo

In my honest opinion, there is nothing wrong with filling things out to make for more interesting reading— longer form writers (such as Rtron, Myself, Nutts, etc.) feel the need to “fill the gap” because we feel that RPing is more engaging, involving, and interesting when it doesn’t read like a script or chatroom log.

people take from two sentences to an entire paragraph to describe a single movement in a fight scene,

@Frettzo

Being direct is one thing, but sometimes a line of combat action has more intricacies besides “throwing a punch” or “dodging to the left” – the arena sub-forum is full of this, I wager. Language is beautiful and inspiring when it doesn’t read like static.

There was once a situation when a player wrote 20.000 words, I kid you not, of their character in an empty room.

@Frettzo

I do not have the context of the content of the post beyond it being an empty room with one individual, so I cannot really comment on that; but I doubt I would be able to write 20,000 words in a traditional RP in the same scenario.

[Jig]

Even better when they have a little extra bit about becoming a super cold badass when they have to be, giving them carte blanche to act as they see fit when they want to stop being friendly.

@Tarquin

I frequently see the "Character has [Personality trait X] but also is [Diametrically-Opposed Personality Trait Y] in some circumstances". I don't think it's meant to be a carte blanche but an attempt to balance the character and give them some dynamics - although, as you say, it does basically load that character with caprice in the very section that's supposed to make your character comprehensible and reasonably predictable for the GM (and usually other players') benefit.

[Shorticus]

My personal take on combat scenes and what to write:

Combat should flow differently than other situations. Combat is an action scene. Action scenes demand short sentences; semicolons, maybe; they demand the pauses be plentiful but brief and they demand that you understand how a paragraph needs to flow. They demand that you match scenery with pacing, that you focus on what's important, that you get to the point because action happens fast. It's not leisurely. There's no time to know all the details of the dude that's clubbing you. You just know where he is, what he's got, and most of your attention is on that walloping stick in his hands. Unnecessary detail kills an action scene.

Okay. So, with all that said: description can be an incredible boon in other scenes. You CAN be over descriptive - I know I saw a really bad case of it in someone's short story recently - and you can definitely focus on too many details at once. However, done right, a little fluff goes a long way, and a lot of fluff doesn't take so much to chow down on.

But I hate action scenes that don't have that speed to 'em. If it doesn't feel like an action scene, if it doesn't flow like an action scene, then chances are I'm not into it. There can be lulls in the action, especially for dramatic reasons, but they'd better damned well make sense.

[Tarquin]

<Snipped quote by Tarquin>

I frequently see the "Character has [Personality trait X] but also is [Diametrically-Opposed Personality Trait Y] in some circumstances". I don't think it's meant to be a carte blanche but an attempt to balance the character and give them some dynamics - although, as you say, it does basically load that character with caprice in the very section that's supposed to make your character comprehensible and reasonably predictable for the GM (and usually other players') benefit.

@Jig

It's less about having an opposing trait and more that the trait seems to be there specifically so they can dismiss the realities of certain situations. For instance, I'm used to this kind of personality cropping up in Naruto RPs. Naruto RPs usually involve 13-15 year old kiddies that are just getting involved in military work, which often involves killing real people. Now, surely you would agree that even fresh soldiers, especially if they happen to be kids, are not often completely detached from the process of killing people? And yet so many of these kiddies happen to be completely fine with filling people with sharp objects and burning them to death. Not even so much as a slither of apprehension in most cases. And then they go right back to being kind and full of empathy in spite of having recently turned a man into a blood fountain.

Maybe they're just playing into the spirit of anime a bit, but it really irks me how characters can be "READY TO DO WHAT THEY MUST" with little to explain how or why they became so coldly detached from killing people.

[Gowi]

<Snipped quote by Jig>

It's less about having an opposing trait and more that the trait seems to be there specifically so they can dismiss the realities of certain situations. For instance, I'm used to this kind of personality cropping up in Naruto RPs. Naruto RPs usually involve 13-15 year old kiddies that are just getting involved in military work, which often involves killing real people. Now, surely you would agree that even fresh soldiers, especially if they happen to be kids, are not often completely detached from the process of killing people? And yet so many of these kiddies happen to be completely fine with filling people with sharp objects and burning them to death. Not even so much as a slither of apprehension in most cases. And then they go right back to being kind and full of empathy in spite of having recently turned a man into a blood fountain.

Maybe they're just playing into the spirit of anime a bit, but it really irks me how characters can be "READY TO DO WHAT THEY MUST" with little to explain how or why they became so coldly detached from killing people.

@Tarquin

In addition to playing into the spirit of the genre I would say that we also have to account that these kids know they will be killing people and to a point are before they make genin are taught not only the basic to the setting’s abilities but also the knowledge of the history of their village— they know. Though maybe that’s just me reading into it.