[OOC] Academy 218 - Superhuman School (Always open)

[AeronFarron]

Mr Allen J said
It'd be pretty funny if she got it wrong, though.

it would be, hence why she didn't specify if she meant FTM or MTF.

[Jazzy]

Personally I think it would be impossible for her to tell (Growing up with it or not) unless she pulled down Tess' shirt to reveal that her boobs were actually oranges, but hey, if Allen's cool with it I will be too. Just don't do it to any of my characters.

[Shin Ghost Note]

I can totally see Theresa putting basketballs under her shirt.

[AeronFarron]

Jazzy said
Personally I think it would be impossible for her to tell (Growing up with it or not) unless she pulled down Tess' shirt to reveal that her boobs were actually oranges, but hey, if Allen's cool with it I will be too. Just don't do it to any of my characters.

It isn't impossible for people cut of a similar cloth to not recognize certain attributes within others based solely on personal experiences or extended exposure to it. Pulling down someone's shirt isn't a good way to "prove" something like this. Breasts can be added on surgically to just about anyone.
It will take an exceptionally long time to explain why it is not impossible in the least, but I'll condense it: Experiences resonate. Soldiers that have been in combat can easily pick out who is green and who else has seen combat, with just a meeting of the eyes. Rape victims can recognize other victims with just a glance. Heck, in my experiences, musicians can often tell whom else is a musically inclined. Best way that I can explain, there is just something that you can feel. You can see it in the way someone may talk, act, think, or do stuff. It is in the way they carry themselves, the way they dress or interact with others.

For someone like Quinn that has spent her ENTIRE life dealing with this, literally from birth til now, she can recognize when someone is transitioning. Now what exactly is it, she doesn't know. Tess could be female transitioning to male, or male transitioning to female. Maybe she is like Quinn and is in the process of getting corrective surgery. Quinn knows Tess is transitioning, but she doesn't know it what capacity or why. She doesn't know when or how or what medication/hormones (if any) that Tess is taking. So yes, I will continue to RP my character as she is. If you make/have a character whom is in transition, or post transition, she will recognize it and she may or may not comment on it

[Jazzy]

Aeron, I don't care in the slightest what you can just 'feel'. What I care about is metagaming, which is exactly what you are doing.

If she knows it, explain it. If you cant explain it in a way that makes sense, I dont want your spiritual or emotions connection crap. If you cant explain it logically, deal with your character not knowing about it. Period, the end. ESPECIALLY when you have made no effort to plan this out with Allen. I would recommend doing that over just knowing information next time (HINT HINT).

[AeronFarron]

Jazzy said
Aeron, I don't care in the slightest what you can just 'feel'. What I care about is metagaming, which is exactly what you are doing.If she knows it, explain it. If you cant explain it, deal with your character not knowing.

Metagaming is an "out of character" action where a player's character makes use of knowledge that the player is aware of but that the character is not meant to be aware of.

I'm sorry, there is a character on this RP that can tell what your power is just by looking at you and can use that knowledge to her advantage.

Metagaming in this instance would be my character knowing why someone is transition, from which gender to which other gender, how they feel about it and would know exactly how to help them transition.

Quinn can't do that. She still needs to ask and confirm. She still has to talk to the person, and that is if she even cares to learn more. If you slow your roll and allow the two characters to actually finish the conversation before calling "Metagaming", you would learn how she knows and why.

[Leonerdo]

While events like that occur in reality, it's not nearly so often enough to justify presumption. There are bad calls. Having a "look" does not always constitute as it being true. Because reality ≠ anime. You see that a lot in anime, but you really can not afford to presume anything about another person in the real world because of a gut feeling. Some people make good soldiers. Some people don't. You can't really tell that by looking at someone because there are limitless factors that can be contributing to the "look" of that person in that given moment. And again, "looks" aren't enough.

I want to throw into the mix that I feel nervous about Quinn. Her sheet doesn't have a backstory. While the appearance and such lays enough groundwork that you might be able to assume she went through a phase in which gender identity was something that was relevant, you still can't do that without assuming. There's nothing solid or concrete that sets her life in stone and - I'm not saying you've done anything relating to this or not (or maybe you have, I haven't been reading your posts very thoroughly given my schedule and lack of relevance to myself) - you could make up anything about her life on the spot to justify whatever. Again, I haven't said you have, but I want to get my concern out in the open and I would appreciate if you kept that in mind so that we can make sure Quinn does not develop into something ridiculous.

I've been nice so far.

But if you want me to be a real bitch, you can continue saying shit like:

AeronFarron said So yes, I will continue to RP my character as she is. If you make/have a character whom is in transition, or post transition, she will recognize it and she may or may not comment on it

To be frank, I don't really care about this discussion about "my trans-senses are tingling!" But, a-hem-hem-HEM, I don't think that's going to fly. Set your foot down all you like, but ultimately, Allen does get final say. So change that, "so yes", into "so once I work out whatever with allen", because nobody but him has the authority to set anything in stone while we're posting in this thread. You can complain about the management of moderation, treatment, and basically any problems you might be having with another person (preferably maturely), but you don't set the course of the roleplay.

You can try though, since I think it would actually be pretty funny if you said "So yes, I can and will do this" and Allen says "nope" and makes a baby volcano grow beneath Quinn's bed in the middle of the night.

AeronFarron said Metagaming is an "out of character" action where a player's character makes use of knowledge that the player is aware of but that the character is not meant to be aware of.

I'm sorry, there is a character on this RP that can tell what your power is just by looking at you and can use that knowledge to her advantage.

Metagaming in this instance would be my character knowing why someone is transition, from which gender to which other gender, how they feel about it and would know exactly how to help them transition.

Quinn can't do that. She still needs to ask and confirm. She still has to talk to the person, and that is if she even cares to learn more. If you slow your roll and allow the two characters to actually finish the conversation before calling "Metagaming", you would learn how she knows and why.

The thing about your point, is that it's wrong.

Characters with powers that obtain information by looking at them is one thing, and it's done in such a way that we don't spoil character secrets until we're ready.. A character with no powers like that at all, and still obtaining information as if they did, is metagaming.

While you did not practice metagame to the extent that you described, out of character knowledge was taken and applied in character where a normal person would not have typically been able to deduce. Metagaming is *knowing* she had a transition, and not thinking "Huh, she looks a little masculine. Is she transgender or is she just pretty manly? Hey, what time is it? I'm hungry."

[Jazzy]

I was going to raise some points, but Leo beat me to it.

You win all of the awards.

11/10 - IGN

[Shin Ghost Note]

Alright, time for the captain to step in. Bitches gettin' out of hand.

I'll put it in a more polite way; that's not really a valid explanation for Quinn knowing that Theresa was transgendered from one look when there are actually countless variables in this situation. There are girls who have rather masculine appearances. Quinn doesn't know Theresa from the rest of the lot, I think that's a stretch with how little information Quinn has about Theresa. What I would have done instead is silently note that Theresa is rather masculine, or not like other girls (Special snowflake, ya'll). Since there isn't enough for Quinn to make that connection.

I'll have to say that Quinn shouldn't know Theresa is trans. But, since Quinn's question was pretty vague, I don't think you have to edit your post.

[Leonerdo]

To add to Allen's post: I also want to clarify that knowing Theresa's story isn't a problem. But the same job could have been done with the same results in a different manner. The subject isn't the issue, it's the action. That's what we want to prevent before a serious metagaming issue occurs.

It's like stealing five dollars versus stealing a hundred dollars. Obviously, a hundred dollars is more significant than the five dollars, but the action is the same. It's stealing.

[AeronFarron]

Here's the thing, and I am sure I said this in Quinn's profile:

SHE IS STILL GOING THROUGH DECIDING IF SHE WANTS TO TRANSITION OR NOT.

I am not setting the course of the role play, I am setting the course of MY character. She is drawing on her own LEGITIMATE experiences and LEGITIMATE knowledge to draw such conclusions. It isn't just "my trans senses are tingling". It is a part of it, yes, but look at how Quinn has been acting. She has taken her eyes off of Tess once in their entire interaction. She has been studying Tess and listening to her. She has looked her over quite extensively, and Tess has shown her face. As Jazz describes it in Tess' appearance section, her face is very masculine with the chin and jawline, but is somewhat given a feminine nature thanks to the scarf. The jawline is very difficult to shape and is quite expensive to do correctly. In the same vein is the chin. Quinn would know this as she shares a similar trait and thus would need to go through the process to become a full female.

And I didn't say anything about "good" soldiers. I said that soldiers that have seen combat can easily recognize soldiers that are green and soldiers that have seen combat. It has nothing to do with knowing their service record or even being in the same station as them. It isn't just a feeling. They can recognize it in the way they carry themselves and in how they talk or move. They recognize it because they see it in a mirror.

Quinn is a character that is drawing on her own personal experiences to make a call. Good or bad, it doesn't matter. It is a HUMAN call, and one that she is perfectly capable of making based on her personality.

[Shin Ghost Note]

Quinn eyeballed that enormous penis, and immediately knew Theresa was a guy.

[AeronFarron]

And sorry, it doesn't work that way. Being NATURALLY androgynous is a very different look from someone that is Mid-Operation. Which, I've been meaning to ask about, Allen:

Is Tess taking hormones?

[Shin Ghost Note]

Can we just reach a compromise here and just say that Quinn suspects Theresa is trans?

Due to her power, Tess can't take hormone therapy. All natural.

[AeronFarron]

http://www.albertatrans.org/mtf.shtml

Read that please guys, so maybe you can see where I am coming from. Transitions are not something that you can change a few things and bam! New gender.

[AeronFarron]

Mr Allen J said
Can we just reach a compromise here and just say that Quinn Theresa is trans?Due to her power, Tess can't take hormone therapy. All natural.

Then you and I need to talk. Very, very extensively.

[Shin Ghost Note]

Alright then, we should do it over in PMs plox. It's late and I have shit to do tomorrow. I should be getting to bed

[AeronFarron]

Mr Allen J said
Alright then, we should do it over in PMs plox. It's late and I have shit to do tomorrow. I should be getting to bed

alright. Night

[Shin Ghost Note]

Just send me what you need to say and I'll get back to it later.

[Leonerdo]

AeronFarron said
http://www.albertatrans.org/mtf.shtmlRead that please guys, so maybe you can see where I am coming from. Transitions are not something that you can change a few things and bam! New gender.

Thanks, but I assure you we all know how gender transitions work. This wasn't relevant to the conversation anyways.