Sorry Scotland.

[mdk]

[Dervish]

Pff.

I snickered.

[idlehands]

That smirk.

[darkwolf687]

Haha, that grin. I can just imagine the caption
"Afraid not, Old Boy."

Well done to both sides though, I hope the Scots go hold Westminster to its word

[Dervish]

James Bond gets to keep his job with MI6!

[idlehands]

darkwolf687 said
Haha, that grin. I can just imagine the caption"Afraid not, Old Boy."Well done to both sides though, I hope the Scots go hold Westminster to its word

Damn, someone put that on there. That makes it perfect.

[darkwolf687]

Dervish said
James Bond gets to keep his job with MI6!

Maybe not...

Breaking news, James Bond axed by Cameron!
The tories have announced another wave of austerity cuts, this time hitting MI6.
We're here live with a former top agent
"I'm jobless... Homeless and jobless..."

In other news, Labour to win next election...

[mdk]

[darkwolf687]

Haha, I was wondering how Groundskeeper Willie was taking the news xD

[Halo]

There seem to be two classes of people on Facebook right now: those who want to reconcile and are actively encouraging that; and the bitter, angry folk who can't let go of whatever side they were on and are still duking it out with criticisms and nitpicking. Sigh.

[scribz]

It was a good referendum, and I'm personally proud at how this rekindled politics in my country, outcome regardless. The people chose to remain a part of the UK, and i'm one to respect that. However, I hope the results have at least landed a warning to Westminister, as there's now a great movement in the people of Scotland for independence, that will not subside if austerity doesn't.

Scotland remains a part of the UK, let's try and make it the best Scotland possible.

[Dervish]

scribz said
It was a good referendum, and I'm personally proud at how this rekindled politics in my country, outcome regardless. The people chose to remain a part of the UK, and i'm one to respect that. However, I hope the results have at least landed a warning to Westminister, as there's now a great movement in the people of Scotland for independence, that subside if austerity doesn't. Scotland remains a part of the UK, let's try and make it the best Scotland possible.

Very classy response.

[Gwazi Magnum]

FREEEEeeeeeedom?

[Halo]

scribz said
It was a good referendum, and I'm personally proud at how this rekindled politics in my country, outcome regardless. The people chose to remain a part of the UK, and i'm one to respect that. However, I hope the results have at least landed a warning to Westminister, as there's now a great movement in the people of Scotland for independence, that subside if austerity doesn't. Scotland remains a part of the UK, let's try and make it the best Scotland possible.

Cut the Westminster hatred, man. There's no need for "warnings." They'll honour Scotland's wish for more powers, probably devolving more than just the bare minimum if only to appease the Yes voters, and continuing the threats isn't going to help reconcile the current fracturing within Scotland and within the wider UK, y'know? My biggest concern is just that everything's going to fall apart and the current polarisation is going to continue. This is an impressionable time; make your mark the positive messages you've expressed, rather than threats and warnings and anger.

But I completely agree in regards to pride in the success of democracy and of getting people involved in the political process. The thing I fear is that now this central cause/issue is past, the incredible newfound political participation will fade away. It's easy to get involved when things are polarised and you can just pick a side and duke it out; not so much when the political scene is muddier and more complicated and less dramatic. This kind of turnout and participation is basically unprecedented, it'd be a damn shame for that to die out. As I said on Facebook:
"Although I'm very glad there was a No vote, I want to say: Yes and No voters, don't fall into complacency. All of us have problems with the current status quo, whether we believed in independence or not. If you disagree with the current political UK scene, get involved. This was not your one and only chance to change something. Scotland is a great country; it can continue to be a great country as part of the UK, contributing to a larger whole. And we can hope that this has shaken things up enough that longstanding inequalities (both those unfair towards those north and those unfair towards folk south of the border) can be openly discussed and resolved.
I agree with Salmond for the first time ever: the ridiculously high turnout and the huge, nationwide involvement with this political issue is an absolute "triumph for democracy.""

And to be honest, I think it's a shame Salmond resigned. Only just found out about it when I was interviewed on the street. I fucking hate the guy and don't like the way Yes conducted itself in a lot of ways, but he's a talented politician and a strong leader for Scotland to get behind in what's still going to be an era of change. Sturgeon doesn't have anywhere near the same ability to rally people, and I think it'd be disastrous for her to take over.

Ranting over. c:

[Herzinth]

[scribz]

I won't cut my grievances with the westminister state. I'm very happy with the movement on both yes and no sides to want more autonomy for scotland, and i'm more than happy about Westminister also equally seeing that scotland has less effect on english laws, as that's not fair. As for your warning, it took us a divide across the country before westminister considered new powers, and both yes and no are now looking to them to get new powers, that's the only reason they're doing this now. If they do.

A decentralized body of governments across the whole of the UK is fundementally my want, I'm not a nationalist.

You're extremely bitter about all of this for entirely personal reasons, and it's ugly.

[Halo]

scribz said
I won't cut my grievances with the westminister state. I'm very happy with the movement on both yes and no sides to want more autonomy for scotland, and i'm more than happy about Westminister also equally seeing that scotland has less effect on english laws, as that's not fair. You're extremely bitter about all of this for entirely personal reasons, and it's ugly.

I'm bitter? I'm not the one issuing warnings and threats. Scribz, I just posted talking about how the fractures between Yes and No need to be healed so that Scotland can continue forward, continue with this incredible public participation in politics, and make positive changes for itself. I condemned holding onto grievances which won't help to heal those fractures, but I agreed with you on all other points. And I regret that the leader of the opposite party has resigned and acknowledge his political talent, his contribution to this country which I am very proud of too. I think that's less bitter a reaction than still holding those grudges, which will only hold negotiations back and make finding a positive solution for everyone more difficult. :/
If it seemed as if I was being bitter, I wasn't. As I said, the current status quo is a broken system that needs to be fixed. Believe me, the current government's decisions, and Westminster's decisions in the past, have had extremely negative effects on my life and on others', and I have my own problems with the current system for that. But I also believe that now is the most malleable time for change in my lifetime, and possibly for the remainder of my lifetime too - and that holding grudges and anger close to heart will only serve to fracture the Scottish population within itself, and the British population as a whole, and will mean that negotiations focus on each state trying to screw the others and look after itself rather than us all working together to make a better situation for everyone. People have to come to the table open, and people have to stay politically involved - that is what I believe and what I expressed, and I don't see any bitterness in that. Perhaps I expressed myself poorly before.

[aza]

So I just read the word westminister correct for the first time in this thread
I thought it was westmiser... like heatmiser from the old christmas cartoons like it was some political thing or something.

Uhm

Well I feel dumb

I should read words fully next time

[scribz]

Halo said
I'm bitter? I'm not the one issuing warnings and threats. Scribz, I just posted talking about how the fractures between Yes and No need to be healed so that Scotland can continue forward, continue with this incredible public participation in politics, and make positive changes for itself. I condemned holding onto grievances which won't help to heal those fractures, but I agreed with you on all other points. And I regret that the leader of the opposite party has resigned and acknowledge his political talent, his contribution to this country which I am very proud of too. I think that's less bitter a reaction than still holding those grudges, which will only hold negotiations back and make finding a positive solution for everyone more difficult. :/ If it seemed as if I was being bitter, I wasn't. As I said, the current status quo is a broken system that needs to be fixed. Believe me, the current government's decisions, and Westminster's decisions in the past, have had extremely negative effects on my life and on others', and I have my own problems with the current system for that. But I also believe that now is the most malleable time for change in my lifetime, and possibly for the remainder of my lifetime too - and that holding grudges and anger close to heart will only serve to fracture the Scottish population within itself, and the British population as a whole, and will mean that negotiations focus on each state trying to screw the others and look after itself rather than us all working together to make a better situation for everyone. People have to come to the table open, and people have to stay politically involved - that is what I believe and what I expressed, and I don't see any bitterness in that. Perhaps I expressed myself poorly before.

Okay, that's fair.

But I have no qualms with the no voters, they agree with me on 99.9% of the scottish narrative. We all want more powers, they so happen to believe to be able to get them in the UK. I'm wary, but i'm very happy to respect and join them on the matter. I think Salmond left with integrity, and also quite strategically, to allow a new face to arise in what could potentially be a flash referendum in the next decade, if the 1970's is to repeat itself.

I also agree with you that the state needs to change, but they won't change until electorial force is placed, my "threats" aren't voilent, nor are they something that is localized to yes voters, or to the rest of the UK for that matter. This change in dynamic is the best possible solution to uprooting a lot of the fallacy within the system in place, for the benefit of the whole of the UK. I'm not whining about the vote, nor am I hating on the rest of the country, any yes voter who does do that is abhorrent. So, to do your part, don't try and polarize the two of us, as you put it - 19th of September is the day scotland reunites, and i'm happy to be a part of that.

[Halo]

scribz said
Okay, that's fair. But I have no qualms with the no voters, they agree with me on 99.9% of the scottish narrative. We all want more powers, they so happen to believe to be able to get them in the UK. I'm wary, but i'm happy to respect and join them on the matter. I think Salmond left with integrity, and also quite strategically, to allow a new face to arise in what could potentially be a flash referendum in the next decade, if the 1970's is to repeat itself. I also agree with you that the state needs to change, but they won't change until electorial force is placed, my "threats" aren't voilent, nor are they something that is localized to yes voters, or to the rest of the UK for that matter. This change in dynamic is the best possible solution to uprooting a lot of the fallacy within the system in place, for the benefit of the whole of the UK. I'm not whining about the vote, nor am I hating on the rest of the country, any yes voter who does do that is abhorrent. So, to do your part, don't try and polarize the two of us, as you put it - 19th of September is the day scotland reunites, and i'm happy to be a part of that.

I never polarised either of us. You expressed a sentiment that I disagreed with and felt was one that could be damaging to the change that could bring Scotland and the UK's future happiness, and I stated that - and stated it to you; I accused other Yes voters of nothing. Not the same thing, not at all - and I never accused you of whining, or of hating the citizens of any country, either.

I think that entering negotiations with an attitude of anger, with grievances and grudges, will be unproductive and damaging, and that condemning Westminster for something they haven't even done yet is fundamentally wrong. If they do not devolve the promised powers, believe me, I will be right beside you and the rest of Scotland in criticising them for it. If they do.

And that is all I said. That is the only disagreement I had. In terms of reconciliation, of continuing to fight for change, of being proud of the huge turnout and involvement, I agreed utterly.