[OOC] Tabula Rasa MkI, the Quintessential Geopolitical Experiment

[Zurajai]

That is exactly my concern! Haha. To add onto what AspenIvan elaborated on, I am 100% happy to bring my app up to that technology and cultural development and I am certainly not in anyway trying to ruin everyone else's fun. I am simply trying to know exactly where we're aiming for so I myself don't create a copper age society when everyone else is running bronze age esque. Just give me a heads up so I can bring my app into line with the world around it!

[Candle]

Conversely, I am happy to scale mine back to something more primitive - in fact, I wouldn't mind starting out as tent-dwelling savages on the tail-end of the Ice Age together and letting ALL of the history develop organically. Either way, SOME of us will have to do some rewrites.

[Captios]

Noting that the application review process has begun. Also noting that your concerns regarding the 'correct' model for a time-apt civilizations are shared by myself, and are in fact one of the primary portions of the review process. I will for now withdraw any further comment regarding a more rigid model for fear of limiting diversity, even at the cost of some short-term confusion or imbalance between polities (which, as some of you may know, is something I am an avid proponent of).

Please wait warmly~

[Zurajai]

Hurray! It begins!

[Partisan]

Captios said
Noting that the application review process has begun. Also noting that your concerns regarding the 'correct' model for a time-apt civilizations are shared by myself, and are in fact one of the primary portions of the review process. I will for now withdraw any further comment regarding a more rigid model for fear of limiting diversity, even at the cost of some short-term confusion or imbalance between polities (which, as some of you may know, is something I am an avid proponent of).Please wait warmly~

I think it is wholely possible that a culture is in 1 specific kingdom.

Look at the Kurds. They have their own culture, and if they were given their own country, it'd be Kurdistan -- which is pretty much the living area for people of that culture.

[Zurajai]

I do not believe that's the issue we're speaking on, Partisan. I believe the issue is the fact that we're set in 4,000 B.C.E. but some of our apps have technology, architecture, and cultural artifacts that are far more reminiscent of something from, say, 2,500 B.C.E.

[Partisan]

I see. Did the europeans not have better weapons armor and tools etc than Asians?

[Zurajai]

Certainly not at this time. And it's less weapons, armor, and tools and more history, culture, and inventions that were not extant anywhere in the world at the time. My complaints are voiced due to the original requirements stated by Captios on the first page:

"But now I’m going to say something. Let there be people on this map. People everywhere. But still no nations. Still no civilizations in the most primitive sense of the term. But that will change in due time."

The nature of some of our histories clearly state that fully functioning nations are extant in 4,000 BC and have been for numerous centuries in some cases. This is contrary to real life estimates where 4,000 BC is considered the beginning of urbanization in Mesopetamia. Let me remind you that 4,000 BC is 950 years before the unification of egypt and the creation of the Pharoahs. What we have done is in no way a bad thing but I, as a player, want to make sure this falls into the expectations of the admin and if not will do my best to adjust to said expectations.

[Partisan]

Ahh, right. But we are in a alternate universe though. I'm pretty sure I meet expectations somewhat, but I did try and level my self to the others atleast a tiny bit so it might not be as realistically 4000 BC.

Then again, most cultures that I've read weren't really tribal at all.

[Candle]

Partisan said I see. Did the europeans not have better weapons armor and tools etc than Asians?

No, Europe was barely populated in 4000 BC; Mesopotamia (Cradle West) saw the creation of pocket-sized empires with armies just big enough to ruin another city's day, but these were the best of the best. We're talking EARLY Bronze Age here. Europe's civilizations were still stuck in the Neolithic - Stonehenge, by comparison, was completed 900 years after our starting point! Asia was about on par with metalworking with Mesopotamia, but their bronzework was typically non-military. Regardless of whether or not they had bronze WEAPONS in Asia, they had the capability of making them.

[Partisan]

Candle said
No, Europe was barely populated in 4000 BC; Mesopotamia (Cradle West) saw the creation of pocket-sized empires with armies just big enough to ruin another city's day, but these were the best of the best. We're talking EARLY Bronze Age here. Europe's civilizations were still stuck in the Neolithic - Stonehenge, by comparison, was completed 900 years after our starting point! Asia was about on par with metalworking with Mesopotamia, but their bronzework was typically non-military. Regardless of whether or not they had bronze WEAPONS in Asia, they had the capability of making them.

I see, thanks for refreshing my memory, I was mixing shit up. :/ It's been a few years since I studied this.

[Zurajai]

Once again, I was not attacking anyone in particular. I was simply stating that many of us did not fit the original constraints put on us by the admin. If the admin wants to run in a time frame more suited for already extant civilizations I am more than happy to thrive in it. But, based on the original template, that has been exceeded by all of us in one way or another.

[Partisan]

I think that's hardly something we can do anything about, though.

[Zurajai]

I disagree. All we need to do is some corrections to our history and technology levels if Captios asks. Simply bring apps in line with the rest, either pulling some back to 4,000 BC or pulling some forward to more 3,000 - 2,500 BC.

[Partisan]

Yes, but there will always be differences and that is what makes this interesting. Otherwise he might as well give us the exact same cultures, right.

[Zurajai]

I'm not saying get rid of your differences. I'm simply saying we should bring ourselves to a similar timeline. That's exactly how actual history went and it was plenty interesting. Important pieces of your culture do not need to be thrown away. Simply bring your technological, architectural, and hierarchical bits into a more reasonable point in time closer to the date given to us by the admin.

[Partisan]

Well, I'd say wait for Captios verdict. It might just be fine -- maybe the more advanced nations are smaller. But I'll wait for Captios. I think I should be pretty OK on the timescale though.

[Zurajai]

But, that's exactly it. You just said the main issue I have:

Partisan said
It might just be fine -- maybe the more advanced nations are smaller.

Captios specifically said in the original post, as I quoted earlier, "still no nations". There can't be more advanced nations cause there are none. The application process was clear that we were to make cultures, not countries. The existence of hundreds of years of history for a fully functioning polity in 4,000 BC is completely contradictory to actual history. Now, if Captios thinks it's alright, it's alright, and that's fine with me. I am simply expressing my own worries that some of us did not meet the prompt in the first place. I never once said make a move without Captios saying so, I've simply been expressing this whole time that I'd like to know where we stand on the issue.

[AspenIvan]

So...what's the ETA for Update 0?

[Captios]

87% chance on this weekend. I've been oh so terribly busy with schoolwork this week, and I apologize immensely.