[OOC] Arena Chat Thread

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>
Yeah, I see that yall have been wagering in the hand-rolled system you've been using so far in the Arena.

I'm not sure just yet how wagering would work for the system I'm building into the forum, so I cut it til further notice.

@Mahz

At the moment the wagering works on a fight by fight basis, the fighters are putting up some of their points at a risk to them but also a greater reward. Would it be possible to make it so a specific fight can be adjusted to give a greater bonus to the winner equal to how many points the loser will lose?

[Mahz]

<Snipped quote by Mahz>

At the moment the wagering works on a fight by fight basis, the fighters are putting up some of their points at a risk to them but also a greater reward. Would it be possible to make it so a specific fight can be adjusted to give a greater bonus to the winner equal to how many points the loser will lose?

@MelonHead

The right+simple solution is to let an Arena Mod tag each outcome with a wager and let the system calculate the points.

The easy+nasty solution is to let an Arena Mod set the point profit on each outcome. But I'd like to avoid that unless I can't figure out the right+simple solution.

For example, the math for calculating each player's point profit is not obvious to me:

User1 wager=100 LOSS  profit=?
User2 wager=0   WIN   profit=?
User3 wager=333 WIN   profit=?
User4 wager=500 DRAW  profit=?
User5 wager=1   WIN   profit=?

[DJAtomika]

I guess that could be easily solved by making the wager fights have one standard wager amount and that's it? Maybe an extra hundred points on top of the win prize, and if you lose you get nothing, so like wager fights would be a double or nothing sorta deal?

[Vordak]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>
The right+simple solution is to let an Arena Mod tag each outcome with a wager and let the system calculate the points.

The easy+nasty solution is to let an Arena Mod set the point profit on each outcome. But I'd like to avoid that unless I can't figure out the right+simple solution.

For example, the math for calculating each player's point profit is not obvious to me:

User1 wager=100 LOSS  profit=?
User2 wager=0   WIN   profit=?
User3 wager=333 WIN   profit=?
User4 wager=500 DRAW  profit=?
User5 wager=1   WIN   profit=?

@Mahz

If i understand the wager system right, then, if waging points does not subtract them from a player's total until the fight ends, it should look somewhat like this:

User1 wager=100 LOSS  profit=0-wager=-100
User2 wager=0   WIN   profit=100+wager=100
User3 wager=333 WIN   profit=100+wager=433
User4 wager=500 DRAW  profit=50
User5 wager=1   WIN   profit=100+wager=101

Im probably overlooking something though.

[Rilla]

How do you guys feel about axing wagers, until we get the system figured out? And maybe taking away the points for losses?

Also, I may go and create an Arena house for multi man matches where the point total is less than what you'd get for individual fights. Maybe not though, unless I can manually set the amount of points a fighr(to 0, for instance, to give them a loss without the House account getting in the ranks too high.

[AlteredTundra]

I'm probably in the minority of this subject, but I like having points and wagers. It's like an extra incentive to win aside from the obvious great feeling winning comes with. So, I vote keep it(both of them).

[GreivousKhan]

I think we should hold off on the point wagering system for now.

[Mahz]

<Snipped quote by Mahz>

If i understand the wager system right, then, if waging points does not subtract them from a player's total until the fight ends, it should look somewhat like this:

User1 wager=100 LOSS  profit=0-wager=-100
User2 wager=0   WIN   profit=100+wager=100
User3 wager=333 WIN   profit=100+wager=433
User4 wager=500 DRAW  profit=50
User5 wager=1   WIN   profit=100+wager=101

Im probably overlooking something though.

@Vordak

Under your scheme, the only purpose a wager seems to serve is the possibility to lose it if you lose the fight. There's no upside that I can see. User3 wagers 333, wins, and just gets their wager back. They might as well wager 0, no?

I think a classic wager system would be cool where the winners have some claim on the losers' wagers. I'll see if my more mathematical friend can help me come up with the math when he has free time.

Either way, I'm done touching the core Arena system for now aside from various things like bugfixes, tweaks, and improving the UI. It's time for me to move on to other issues.

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

Under your scheme, the only purpose a wager seems to serve is the possibility to lose it if you lose the fight. There's no upside that I can see. User3 wagers 333, wins, and just gets their wager back. They might as well wager 0, no?

I think a classic wager system would be cool where the winners have some claim on the losers' wagers. I'll see if my more mathematical friend can help me come up with the math when he has free time.

Either way, I'm done touching the core Arena system for now aside from various things like bugfixes, tweaks, and improving the UI. It's time for me to move on to other issues.

@Mahz

Well, as far as I can tell (and this is how the system works) User 3 actually receives 433 points in that example for winning, and the loser of that fight loses 333 points. That's a net gain of 333 points (the agreed wager) for the winner on top of the usual winning bonus of 100 points. The points are gained or lost at the end, the amount extra being gained or lost is decided upon before the fight but not deducted or added until the end of it.

On the flipside, I'm not sure how I feel about wagers in general anymore, as the leaderboard is supposed to be an award for skill, where-as one person could easily bet 500 points right now and lose and the winner of the fight would get a cool 1600 points, making them the new King of the Arena, I'm not sure that would necessarily be representative of their skill.

[Vordak]

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

Under your scheme, the only purpose a wager seems to serve is the possibility to lose it if you lose the fight. There's no upside that I can see. User3 wagers 333, wins, and just gets their wager back. They might as well wager 0, no?

I think a classic wager system would be cool where the winners have some claim on the losers' wagers. I'll see if my more mathematical friend can help me come up with the math when he has free time.

Either way, I'm done touching the core Arena system for now aside from various things like bugfixes, tweaks, and improving the UI. It's time for me to move on to other issues.

@Mahz

I specified that they do not have the wagers subtracted from their totals until the fight ends.

For example, a user with 1000 points wagers 100. Through the fight, their total remains at 1000, but if they win the fight, they get to keep their points AND have 200 points (100+wager) as profit, rounding up at 1200 as total, but if they lose, then the 100 wager points are subtracted, resulting in 900 total for them.

[Rilla]

the wagering system would be gone in the sense that it hasn't been coded in, and with the points being auto totaled, it'd be kinda redundant for me to basically do it again on paper.

essentially, In for example would be rewarded based off wins, and his points wouldn't reflect any point gain from the previous 25 point system.

In this exchange, I would be losing 75 points myself.

[Rilla]

<Snipped quote by Mahz>

I specified that they do not have the wagers subtracted from their totals until the fight ends.

For example, a user with 1000 points wagers 100. Through the fight, their total remains at 1000, but if they win the fight, they get to keep their points AND have 200 points (100+wager) as profit, rounding up at 1200 as total, but if they lose, then the 100 wager points are subtracted, resulting in 900 total for them.

@Vordak

This is actually the system I have been employing. I don't change any points until any given match is over.

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

This is actually the system I have been employing. I don't change any points until any given match is over.

@Rilla

So are you going to go through all the fights in the Ranking IC and sort them out?

[Rilla]

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

So are you going to go through all the fights in the Ranking IC and sort them out?

@MelonHead

More so down the page, adding ranked to appropriate fights, and win/lossing what needs it.

[GreivousKhan]

Hmm, good luck with that.

Here's a bit of help then.

http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/83032-ranked-khazna-the-black-mask-vs-rodetta-the-red-war-of-the-blades/ooc

http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/83248-ranked-2-v-2-battle-reapers-vs-champions-a-dance-of-blades/ooc

These are all ranked matches. :K

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

More so down the page, adding ranked to appropriate fights, and win/lossing what needs it.

@Rilla

Does this mean you're going to get another loss for forfeiting the vampire fight? ;d

You should have just left it on hold, I didn't mind either way.

[Rilla]

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

Does this mean you're going to get another loss for forfeiting the vampire fight? ;d

You should have just left it on hold, I didn't mind either way.

@MelonHead

That would be my second fight, so yeah. One to Dj, one to You.

Can you activate your arena thing?

[MelonHead]

I can activate it, I can't see anything though.

[MelonHead]

Yeah, might be an issue with activation or something but it doesn't seem to be working for me.

[GreivousKhan]

Wow, the moment I was thinking of pointing out that it was weird Melon had no avatar. literally the MOMENT I thought about saying something. Pop comes his melon head.