[OOC] Age of Rebirth (Post WW3)

[Iluvatar]

I'll do an IC post shortly. Just working on a quick map, seeing as no one appears to have made one yet :)

[Durandal]

@MetalLover
Is there any set amount of time in game that passes every day real life?

[Willy Vereb]

@MetalLover
Is there any set amount of time in game that passes every day real life?

@Durandal

I'd actually prefer if it don't.
The RP seems to be on a fast start but still I prefer not to be rushed.

[Willy Vereb]

>Railguns

MBT armor plating has probably advanced to the point where conventional cannons are wholly ineffective against it.

M1A3 is the new T-54/55 of 2050.

@ASTA

Railguns aren't THAT much more effective, actually.
Multi-stage cannons and/or liquid propellant can easily make up for the difference.
Heck, even going for 150mm range guns would be cutting close to that level.
Actually, conventional cannons have a lot of advantages over railguns so long we don't get to unrealistic stupid high levels of power.
Mounting railguns would basically limit a tank to be a one-trick pony which uses the same method to engage all kinds of targets.
Meanwhile conventional cannons can use various sensitive/intelligent munitions, gun-launched missiles and actual complex ammunition.
Albeit this versatility comes at the cost of ammo.
Once the rail erosion issue is solved the Railgun is actually a much more economical weapon on the long run. We are 35 years in the future so I suppose the very least people solved this much.

Speaking of which, technically the setting would also support railgun rifles, too.
Railgun components scale down relatively well and your only concern is the power source.
I think compact enough batteries with solar panels and other alternatives for charging are doable.
Personal laers are possible, too. But well, they would be pretty poor in this aspect.
I made calculations assuming a 100kW pulse laser weapon with the spot diameter of 5cm against human targets. It works rather well against unarmored enemies but once I put it against any sorts of body armor material you won't even burn that through a millimeter. So your only chance is hoping the armor wasn't treated to block radiation and the bleedthrough is sufficient to harm whoever is inside that suit.
That's a 100kW system (my anti-missile defense if you wonder, wanted to test how it'd fare in anti-infantry role)
You'd be happy to have a 1-5kW handheld laser rifle with your infantry.

EDIT: But yeah, M1 Abrams or Leopard 2 would be pretty much the T-54/55 of the setting if not worse.
At first I wanted to say T-72 but those tanks at least have the potential to put up a fight.

[Keyguyperson]

<Snipped quote by ASTA>Railguns aren't THAT much more effective, actually.
Multi-stage cannons and/or liquid propellant can easily make up for the difference.
Heck, even going for 150mm range guns would be cutting close to that level.
Actually, conventional cannons have a lot of advantages over railguns so long we don't get to unrealistic stupid high levels of power.
Mounting railguns would basically limit a tank to be a one-trick pony which uses the same method to engage all kinds of targets.
Meanwhile conventional cannons can use various sensitive/intelligent munitions, gun-launched missiles and actual complex ammunition.
Albeit this versatility comes at the cost of ammo.
Once the rail erosion issue is solved the Railgun is actually a much more economical weapon on the long run. We are 35 years in the future so I suppose the very least people solved this much.

Speaking of which, technically the setting would also support railgun rifles, too.
Railgun components scale down relatively well and your only concern is the power source.
I think compact enough batteries with solar panels and other alternatives for charging are doable.
Personal laers are possible, too. But well, they would be pretty poor in this aspect.
I made calculations assuming a 100kW pulse laser weapon with the spot diameter of 5cm against human targets. It works rather well against unarmored enemies but once I put it against any sorts of body armor material you won't even burn that through a millimeter. So your only chance is hoping the armor wasn't treated to block radiation and the bleedthrough is sufficient to harm whoever is inside that suit.
That's a 100kW system (my anti-missile defense if you wonder, wanted to test how it'd fare in anti-infantry role)
You'd be happy to have a 1-5kW handheld laser rifle with your infantry.

EDIT: But yeah, M1 Abrams or Leopard 2 would be pretty much the T-54/55 of the setting if not worse.
At first I wanted to say T-72 but those tanks at least have the potential to put up a fight.

@Willy Vereb

Like you said, power supply is the problem. An infantry railgun would need to have a massive backpack to be of any use, and if you want it to be a super-death murder kill I-shoot-and-one-slug-goes-through-twelve-people, then you'd probably need a robot to carry the power with you (aside from the robot carrying the generator so that you are capable of reloading). And of course, if you go for the latter, you've basically got something closer to a turret that has to be set up. The main problem with railguns is that they have extremely limited "ammunition", and have to constantly be resupplied with new batteries. If you build a force around railguns that doesn't have a couple nuclear generators driving along with it, you lose your supply lines and all your weapons are worthless. So far, the smallest thing we can mount railguns on is the Zumwalt.

Obviously, at this point, it's possible to mount them on tanks. The real question is whether or not that's even a slightly good idea. Artillery? Sure, longer range. Tanks? Well, the shell is probably going to go straight through the tank. Which actually isn't all that useful. Long range, explosive payloads are the best way to go with railguns. Unless you're on a ship. In which case throw railguns everywhere and rain a hailstorm of shells upon your enemy at six times the speed of found from a hundred kilometers away.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

Like you said, power supply is the problem. An infantry railgun would need to have a massive backpack to be of any use, and if you want it to be a super-death murder kill I-shoot-and-one-slug-goes-through-twelve-people, then you'd probably need a robot to carry the power with you (aside from the robot carrying the generator so that you are capable of reloading). And of course, if you go for the latter, you've basically got something closer to a turret that has to be set up. The main problem with railguns is that they have extremely limited "ammunition", and have to constantly be resupplied with new batteries. If you build a force around railguns that doesn't have a couple nuclear generators driving along with it, you lose your supply lines and all your weapons are worthless. So far, the smallest thing we can mount railguns on is the Zumwalt.

Obviously, at this point, it's possible to mount them on tanks. The real question is whether or not that's even a slightly good idea. Artillery? Sure, longer range. Tanks? Well, the shell is probably going to go straight through the tank. Which actually isn't all that useful. Long range, explosive payloads are the best way to go with railguns. Unless you're on a ship. In which case throw railguns everywhere and rain a hailstorm of shells upon your enemy at six times the speed of found from a hundred kilometers away.

@Keyguyperson

Explosives in general are way too sensitive for railgun acceleration.
I mean 2.5-3 km/s? That's almost the velocity the actual chemical blows up at and you reach this in practically an instant. Actually, that's the whole point. The projectile would practically behave like an explosive thus penetrating the target AND doing widespread damage. A 3.4kg projectile accelerated to 2.5 km/s is almost like 3.4 kg of TNT.
And yeah, batteries would be kind of the "ammo" for railguns and generally it'd be more complex than regular guns.
Would it worth?
It may in certain situations. The inert bullets are way lighter than cartridges so unless the batteries are too cumbersome (which it probably won't because over thousands of times more powerful weapons are mounted on tanks and thus it would scale down reasonably here, think of a 1-2 kilograms at the absolute worst) it actually saves a ton of weight or allow the soldier to carry much more ammo. The point is that railguns won't be retardedly more powerful than regular guns. They can be made more affordable in sense of logistics. The fact they accelerate the projectile through entire length makes their recoil lower than what firearms have at the same power (which allows you to field somewhat more powerful guns that can be handled the same).
As for recharging, yeah, that's an issue. solar panels or other field alternatives may help when you are cut off from supplies but that's it. Guns also run out of ammo so this isn't anything new. Actually mechanised units may use the engine of their own vehicle like a generator to recharge their weapons. This combined with the more plentiful ammo would actually make railguns worthwhile in combat.
As I said, the point isn't to make some awesome super gun that can take down anything in its way. That's Hollywood. You'd never be able to handle the recoil of such gun. Reality is something only 20-50% more powerful than conventional firearms and its real advantages come from more complex reasons.

[Iluvatar]

Posted :)

[Durandal]

I'll just stick with good, old conventional ballistics for the most part. Ya'll can keep most of your fancy rail guns.

[Willy Vereb]

Actually, reading it up.
A compact carbon-nanotube based fuel cell is the best solution for the power source issue. It can effectively store 100 times more than Li-ion batteries so that means you can indeed jack up plenty of megajoules of charge into less than a kilogram.
So yeah, railgun rifles can be pretty much a reality for this RP. Again, if you think about some kind of superweapon which shoots through everything then you played too much videogames.
In effect you just gave yourself a gun which while performs somewhat better than firearms but its real advantages are elsewhere.
More ammo, almost arbitrarily adjustable projectile speeds (you need a tiny bullet accelerated to hypersonic velocities? You got it!), better rate of fire (basically only limited by the speed which the rail can slide forward then back) and more evenly distributed recoil (which would require to change the design of guns drastically). If the design is tried and proven like such a future setting then I suppose cost won't be that much in comparison (still many times more expensive than a simple gun) and it'll be reliable like any firearm (or perhaps even more).
So yeah, I am actually now thinking of giving railguns to my infantry.Well, probably not to all of them.

[SpookySquid]

Didn't mean to post my CS there, but I guess it's going to wind up there anyways. I know it's not approved yet.

[Keyguyperson]

Fun fact: In the entire USN Pacific Fleet, there is one frigate. Just one. It is named Gary.

I found that out while researching the fleet to figure out how many ships I would have.

[EveryMemeAKing]

Fun fact: In the entire USN Pacific Fleet, there is one frigate. Just one. It is named Gary.

I found that out while researching the fleet to figure out how many ships I would have.

@Keyguyperson

Well thats nice.

[Willy Vereb]

@MetalLoverDid you read the discussion we had about railguns?
Since they could be very much a future plausibility would you allow hand-carried railguns?
They would be potentially better than standard guns but far from as OP as they are presented in games and movies.
Basically think of an alternative to firearms. Both having their advantages and disadvantages.
There are already existing and real concepts to solve the issue with having a sufficiently compact power source.

Basically think of a different assault rifle or sniper gun and that's pretty much what a railgun are.

[EveryMemeAKing]

@MetalLoverDid you read the discussion we had about railguns?
Since they could be very much a future plausibility would you allow hand-carried railguns?
They would be potentially better than standard guns but far from as OP as they are presented in games and movies.
Basically think of an alternative to firearms. Both having their advantages and disadvantages.
There are already existing and real concepts to solve the issue with having a sufficiently compact power source.

Basically think of a different assault rifle or sniper gun and that's pretty much what a railgun are.

@Willy Vereb

Yeah no, we do not have Hand Carried railguns. The compact power source has not been found, yet.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

Yeah no, we do not have Hand Carried railguns. The compact power source has not been found, yet.

@MetalLover

It was found in the modern world already. It's called compact carbon-nanotube based hydrogen fuel cells.
Also by pure scaling off from the tank-mounted railguns we already should have the power source to feed 1-10kJ range railguns with relative ease.
Also we already have powered exoskeletons so that's another nail in the coffin for the lack of compact power sources.

[EveryMemeAKing]

<Snipped quote by MetalLover>It was found in the modern world already. It's called compact carbon-nanotube based hydrogen fuel cells.
Also by pure scaling off from the tank-mounted railguns we already should have the power source to feed 1-10kJ range railguns with relative ease.

@Willy Vereb

Ok then, we can have hand-carried railguns, but they will not be as powerful as tank mounted railguns.

[Willy Vereb]

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

Ok then, we can have hand-carried railguns, but they will not be as powerful as tank mounted railguns.

@MetalLover

Of course they don't.
That was the whole point.
They are just another alternate design for guns.
Both firearms and railguns have its set of advantages and disadvantages.

[Durandal]

It appears we are averaging a steady 1 post per hour. A good tempo.

[Willy Vereb]

Another question which I suppose is also kind of late.
Since it's the future how much CNTs will be available?
Near-future plans involve reducing its cost to 100 dollars per kg which is about 3 times the price of tungsten (granted, tungsten is also about 14 times denser than CNT so the same volume of material will worth about 20% that of tungsten).
But that's the near-future.
Can CNT become an almost common material for our setting?
I mean it's almost mandatory for exoskeletons and such.
I also made the Bocskai III tanks entirely out of this.
As always CNT is no wondermaterial and isn't the ultimate form of protection or whatever. It has various potentials, though.
For starters it absolutely replaces aluminium, light alloys or even many of the plastic-based materials.
Including Kevlar, of course. New body armors would be made of CNT which would weight the same (or less, if we consider the exclusion of steel plates and such).

[Keyguyperson]

Here's my final app. I made a major change to the military section. I don't think it's too strong, but you might have another opinion.

Unified Territories of America

Legal Nation Name:

Unified Territories of America

What Areas Do You Control:

California, Utah, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Wyoming, the Baja Peninsula, and Colorado

Flag or Banner:

Political Party:

The American Restoration Committee currently holds power in the UTA, and is led by Commander In Chief Richard MacEoin.

Type of Government:

Military Dictatorship.

Military:

The UTA military is, of course, controlled by Norton. Each of the four branches (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) is led by an appointed "Branch Chief". The Branch Chiefs are as follows:

Army: Christopher Huerta
Navy: Richard Ančjo
Air Force: Yuuki Sora
Marine Corps: Yeong Suk

The total active combat personnel number for the UTA Armed Forces is approx. 862 thousand. Most of these personnel are in either the Army or the Marines, with the Air Force at a close second and the Navy coming in last. The Marine Corps is the smallest due to UTA policy, which kept it out of overseas wars for the entirety of the first Commander In Chief's reign. In fact, there has been talk of simply merging the Army and Marine Corps into a single branch as the two are more or less treated as one entity already.

The Army and Marine Corps make extensive use of "Soft Exosuits", which are a derivative of the cutting-edge power armors that are beginning to make their way into the world's armies. Unlike such power armor, Soft Exosuits offer no extra protection. They do, however, greatly increase the carrying capacity and mobility of soldiers. These exosuits are nowhere near as rare as powered armor, and are standard issue in the UTA. Powered Armor is being developed, and prototypes are in field testing already. Even so, some in the military hierarchy believe that the focus should be on improving the soft exosuits instead of introducing powered armor.

Ground vehicle design hasn't changed much since before WWIII, though new technology has been implemented. Artillery designs utilize railguns, which allow the shells to have a higher explosive capacity and an adjustable velocity. These railguns have nowhere near the destructive power of naval ones, however, and have much smaller ranges. Tanks still utilize traditional weaponry, however, as the power requirements for railguns have yet to be reduced to such a range.

All UTA ground vehicles utilize a system to limit collateral damage from shockwaves, which utilizes a sensor capable of detecting a shockwave-generating explosion and an arc generator that receives the signal from the sensor to ionise a small region, producing a plasma field between the target and the explosion using lasers, electricity and microwaves. Main battle tanks use an upgraded system which is capable of deflecting projectiles, but it's chances of successfully deflecting a shot have been described as the same as one's chances of rolling snake eyes.

The Navy of the UTA is disproportionately large to its military doctrine, having inherited the old USA Pacific Fleet and it's five aircraft carriers. Alongside these behemoths are 10 Cruisers, 25 Destroyers, and 15 Littoral III Combat Ships. Naval weaponry is where the technology of the late USA truly shows its potential. Lasers are widely deployed, as are high-power railguns. All ships use defensive systems similar to those used on main battle tanks, but obviously quite a bit more powerful. Of course, they're still just as much of a gamble. As the plans of the new dictator go forward, new ships are being design for larger-scale combat with foreign navies.

Last but not least is the Air Force, which works extremely closely with the Army. It extensively utilizes drone technology, though for the most part only in ground attack aircraft. Fighters tend to be manned for quicker response time, as well as the prevailing belief that pilots will fight better if their lives are actually in danger. Thanks to their extensive aerospace complex, the Air Force has some of the best planes on the continent, not to mention their high numbers considering the size of the nation. The UTAF also controls the nuclear weapons formerly stationed by the USA in UTA territory. This has never been officially disclosed, and no weapons have ever been tested due to fear of igniting a war. However, their possession of such weapons could easily be inferred due to the fact that they are a successor state of one of the recognized nuclear powers of the pre-WWIII world.

Productions:

Aerospace products, information technology, natural gas, and high-tech military products.

History of the Nation (Easy Pz):

Though the UTA was not born until nearly halfway through the Third World War, the events that led up to its creation begin much further back. It was first conceived in 2018 as the end result of a long series of schemes and plans. The original goal of this overarching "master plan" was to unite the USA under a highly centralized government in order to prevent its collapse. To keep the nation stable, it would be turned into a dictatorship to be governed by only the best and the brightest. The idea was that the people were incapable of governing themselves, and that monarchy was worthless since heirs were chosen according to blood and not ability. Thus, a dictatorship where leaders are appointed by the former was the only realistic option.

These plans were set in motion by a select few, chosen by the man now remembered as the first dictator of the UTA. Through politics and business, they gained power. They drummed up support in the public and military alike, slowly but surely preparing for the coup. Whether or not this would have actually worked is up for debate, but after the collapse of the USA in the middle of WWIII, it didn't even matter. All that mattered was that the country was in chaos, and the movement had support, money, and power.

Like so many other military dictatorships, the UTA rose because the people believed they had no other choice. They could either choose to stand with the remnants of the once-great Union, or join one of its many successor states. Given the choices the states that had not been claimed by one of the successors had, many of them chose the UTA. It was founded mere months after the collapse in California, the largest of the independent states. Promising all who would join it safety, order, and justice, it incorporated the states that now make it up.

Work began on turning the UTA into a stronger nation, companies were nationalized to ensure that all resources were focused on building up the fledgling nation. Among these were multiple aerospace firms, including spaceflight companies such as Virgin Galactic and SpaceX. Sensible acquisitions for the government, after all, they provided them with production facilities that could easily be retooled for military production (if they weren't already). However, the UTA's military government wasn't satisfied. They wanted to set themselves up to have one of the best Air Forces in the new, turbulent region of North America.

So they went to war.

The newly-formed Mexican Empire, a fascist nation that had arisen from the ashes of the ill-fated democracy, controlled the Baja Peninsula. Despite it's reputation for having Tijuana in it and nothing else, the peninsula's northern state was home to multiple aerospace corporations. The UTA knew that in the hands of the militaristic fascist government, they would all be dedicated to producing military aircraft. Fearful of the power Imperial Mexico would hold and thirsty for more power of their own, the UTA immediately drew up invasion plans.

The UTA got lucky in the short-lived Second Mexican-American war (as it is known in the UTA). The Empire was focused on expanding their borders south in the chaos of the Third World War, believing that after the collapse of the USA nobody would care to stop or attack them. With their armies tied up, the UTA unexpectedly launched a blitzkrieg into the Baja Peninsula. They stormed in from the North with the full force of their military, hoping that the other successor states of America wouldn't take advantage of them as they had done to Mexico. They fortified the small northern land border heavily, continuing to push South with little resistance. To prevent Mexican reinforcements from arriving, they moved their fleet in-between the peninsula and the rest of Mexico, effectively blockading them.

After that, they allowed the war to fall into a stalemate. They let the Mexican Empire try to retake the peninsula, pushing them back each and time. They didn't want to win the war by pushing in further and turning it into an offensive war. Instead, they kept it defensive, trying to break the will of the Empire. In the end, it worked. Mexico surrendered the Baja Peninsula, and the UTA immediately made it quite clear to the inhabitants of the northern half that they were now their citizens. Revolts were brutally put down, but protests were not. Instead, the UTA simply forced demonstrations to be put through registration and guarded. They made themselves look like benevolent rulers, and slowly but surely the independence movements began to die down.

The southern half, however, was a different story. The UTA attempted to hold onto it, but the majority of their occupation forces were sent to the North. After all, they were barely concerned with the South. Revolts were successful in multiple cities, requiring direct military offensives to retake them. Instead of redirecting forces from the North or the original territories, the government placated the South by giving them significant autonomy, turning them into a "Special Administrative Zone" where they kept the laws of Mexico while flying the UTA flag alongside the flag of the original state of Baja California Sur. Of course, they also stationed an aircraft carrier in Tijuana and made it quite clear that separatist movements would not be tolerated.

Immediately after this, the UTA swung straight into the production of military equipment. They sold to the Allies of WWIII, which found themselves in great need of new equipment. The UTA's designs, which were some of the most advanced of the time thanks to the advancements made in the old USA being incorporated into different vehicles, were a great boon to the Allies. Demand for the UTA-produced products grew as the war inched towards its climax. Nobody cared that they were buying from a dictatorship that conquered a chunk of Mexico, they only cared that they were getting American rifles, American tanks, and American railguns and lasers to use on their Navy.

The UTA's industrial capability grew and grew, with the government-owned factories being intentionally built to be easily modified. They had no illusions that the war would last forever, and wanted to be ready for any political or economic climate afterwards. When the war came to a close, the UTA innovated. They began to build advanced artillery, better tanks, networked battlefield information systems linked right into holographic heads-up-displays in soldier's helmets. They wanted the most advanced military on the continent, and they had the capability to get it.

Now, the UTA has found itself with advanced military technology, the men and women to operate it, and a massive Empire that would prefer it if the UTA just ceased to exist. In fear of Mexico, they continue to expand their military. Though their current dictator, Richard MacEoin, may very well have plans for it beyond countering a hypothetical Mexican offensive.

Main Race:

68% of European descent, 10% of African descent, 20% of Asian descent, 2% Other (Native North/South American, Pacific Islander, Alaskan Native, etc).

Main Religion:

The UTA is mostly Christian, which is split into Protestant and Catholic sections far more equally than it's neighbor nations due to its large population of Hispanics/Latinos. Atheism and Agnosticism are also more popular than in neighboring countries, and the secular Government pushes a policy of religious tolerance.
Other: