What am i doing wrong as a GM?

[DMZ]

Greetings folks, I'm DMZ. I do a bit of roleplaying, and a bit of roleplay hosting. I come from a background in D&D, videogames, books and self written fiction. I used to run a roleplay called 'Path of Gold' on the old Guild(and co-host a few others), en am currently running one on the new guild. Thus far the relevant information.

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong as a GM or a roleplayer. The current RP I host has only one consistent player as I'm in the process of finding more. The bigger concern I have is not necessarily the amount of players in the RP, but rather the way some of my interactions went with players leaving the RP. One player had some concerns that I was basically trying to create a non-interactive work of fiction, with the players being nothing more than window dressing, and decided to make a big exit with a lot of drama. My handling of it was rather clumsy, as I meant no harm, but it seemed to come across that way. I make it a point to often ask people if they have any concerns regarding my playing/GMing, yet nobody feels compelled to respond.

(roleplayerguild.com/topics/7..) Link to the OOC with the relevant exchanges between me and the first player leaving in a big fuss.

Since then, I've had a curious example of a player simply going dark on me. Not a major deal, happens a lot. I tend to create PM chains for every player in my RP and use those to communicate, and poke people that don't update me on what's up. Half a dozen PMs later in the chain with player #2 (spaced over the course of weeks) I still get no response whether they are leaving, don't have time, or anything else. Only when I visited a thread the second player hosted was I able to get a response that they were definitely not interested in continuing, though I still don't know exactly why and was met with a rather hostile response(essentially 'why are you harassing me?' in response to 'what was the reason for you leaving the RP?'). The contrast here is that while the first player leaving was a drama, they clearly stated why they left and that they left. I disagree with some of their reasoning, but I can't complain about the amount of information I got as to the reasons and the position of the player. I knew exactly what happened there and why. With player #2, I am as clueless as to why they went dark, as to the hostile response when I posted in public.

My main concerns here are the following:

- Using the linked OOC and the exchange between me and player #1, what did I do wrong? I can provide screenshots of the full PM convo if needed(no identifying information there, and the player has linked parts of it).
- How much should I bother players for a clear answer as to whether they are staying in the RP? Should I be insistent on asking for a reason for self improvement concerns?
- How to not be a dick as a DM/GM/player? I get the feeling I am interpreted as such in my posts, but for some reason I am having issues figuring out what it is that I do wrong.

TL;DR: RPG, please explain to me how not to be a dick to my players.

Disclaimer: I realise this may come across as a bit of a whine, and that it's relatively trivial to find out who I am referring to, but please don't harass the players if you know who they are. I'm here solely to find out what I am doing wrong in my communication with people, and to become a better roleplayer. I ask for your help fixing any issues I have with communicating as a GM and a roleplayer.

Be as brutal as you wish, and please provide an explanation for why you think something.

[Jig]

Aggressive players who publicly disagree with you:

This is their game as much as it's yours. Without them, it's not happening. Without you, it's not happening. It's a mutual thing, and it's a difficult line to draw. Essentially, in that game, you had two conflicts: a disagreement in terms of IC content, and a disagreement in terms of OoC discussion. I rarely find that it's difficult to resolve IC content disputes, especially if both players have a similar idea of where things should go.

The problem was OoC communication. To an outsider, it looks as though the player was overly aggressive in general and you were overly tenacious in trying to prove your point. As a GM, I don't deal with aggressive players, in the same way that I don't work with aggressive people in real life. They're, by definition, negative, whether they mean to be or not. Anger and frustration are fine, but talking to other people with respect is a basic, and you shouldn't have to deal with anything less. When faced with that, you have two alternatives; try to get them on-side, or kick them. There's no point dragging along somebody who is resentful. They are dead weight and have to either carry themselves or be left behind because they're only going to leave sooner or later, and it might as well be sooner. This has to be a judgement call on whether they have a point, basically. Regardless of who was 'right' or not, it's pretty clear that the player was being aggressive in the OoC, including using formatting to literally underline their irritation and referring to you and making assumptions about you directly. You shouldn't have to deal with that. In this instance, I would have had my finger on the kick button the moment that the player made their dissatisfaction personal and accused you of not caring.

At the same time, be aware that being overly tenacious to prove your point is never going to win over somebody who is an unreasonable state of mind. A large deconstructed multi-quote post talking somebody through something is great in an academic setting or in a reasonable dispute; it's clear, and gives you lots of time to make your point eloquently and in detail for their perusal and assessment. In conflict, however, it only gives them things to pick at and makes you surer that you are right, and therefore less likely to compromise and more likely to be aggressive yourself.

This is fiction, after all, and there are edit buttons if necessary. If you have a working relationship, any IC content-issue can be fixed. I'm not too familiar with this kind of game, which seems to be the kind in which GM's will expressly and actively punish or reward players based on their actions, so perhaps that's not in the spirit of the thing, but, still; if you want to keep a dissatisfied player on board, and, frankly, if they deserve it, you have all the tools at your disposal to give them a better experience. That is part of your duty as a GM; keep your game viable, and the satisfaction of the players is one of the most fundamental cornerstones.

Going dark:

It happens. It does. It sucks. There's nothing you can do. You can't compete with RL for attention, and, frankly, if you try, you're not being fair (not that I'm saying you are doing that).

What you can do is invite an honest and open environment and leave yourself options for compromise. In the game I'm running, Wolf Manor, we have cast members who have had finals, theatrical tours, job-hunting, and, in my own case, a mini-breakdown. However, we communicate well, we warn each other if there's going to be some no-show, and we trust them when they say they'll be back, and they are. The game's therefore slow, but still going. Meanwhile, when one player was struggling, I made it clear that if RL was going to be a problem, we would understand, but if they could give some notice and maybe be in it for one or two more posts to tidy up before their exit, that would be really helpful on our end.

What I try really hard not to do is to probe. If a player has decided to leave your game, or you suspect they might, 'why are you leaving?' is pressurising and invasive; if they don't like the game any more, they might feel bad about it or shy (but who hasn't been there?), and that information is of no use to you; if they have RL issues, they may be private. They may volunteer that information, but you almost certainly can't help them if they've just lost interest or the free time they were using. The information that you need is;

• Whether they're leaving. It's their choice, and you have to react to it.
• If there's anything you can do to make the game better for them.

The first one is pretty easy to ask. Be tactful and non-aggressive and use PM's. The second one requires a bit more nuance, because you can't just do whatever one player wants every time they're inactive, but if there's something you can tweak that will increase your players' satisfaction generally, you're going to want to tweak it. However, this is almost impossible to do if a player has already decided that they want out, so you really want to foster an open atmosphere in your OoC where people can suggest things and you can be positive about them. Although the player was being aggressive in the OoC (and let's discount that), that was a pretty clear indicator that they weren't happy with a decision that was made; this was as big a clue as you can get, and steadfastly sticking to your guns, even if you think you were right, does not present you as an open-minded person interested in their players' enjoyment. It's a balancing act. You won't make all the right calls for all the right people, but you're (presumably) human, and other reasonable humans will understand that - but if you always stick with your original plan and always make the calls you think are best or because 'rules is rules' (either in terms of IC content or OoC discussion), your players won't feel valuable to you.

The easiest way of doing this, by the way, is pre-emptively rather than retrospectively. Making sure there is a steady supply of goodies to enjoy and meaningful stuff to actually do in the game for every character is going to keep the interest that was, by definition, there when they first posted in your interest check. If you let the interest wane, you might be able to jump-start it by working out what they want and offering it to them, but sometimes, as I'm sure we've all experienced first-hand, when it's gone, it's gone. In Wolf Manor, one player wanted to have their character pursue an NPC (controlled by me) romantically. It wasn't what I had in mind for that NPC, but, sure, what the hell? She gets the game she wants, has the freedom to explore the game her way, and it does precisely no harm whatsoever. I have absolute faith that that player won't leave unless she has to, because the game is built in part for and by her, and I think that's the feeling players want. At the same time, before we start each new section, I let the players decide what kind of section they wanted; whether they wanted plot progression or to slow down. This isn't always possible in larger groups, but in smaller groups (Wolf has six players, plus me as GM), it's more than manageable.

Be clear; be open; be positive; be trusting; and be understanding. If you look after your players, the game will take care of itself. They will tell you up-front what they need if you ask and you foster the kind of relaxed OoC environment that allows for it. If your game is GM-led with a clear plot, make this unbelievably clear from the outset, so people understand what it's going to be like. If your game is going to be player-led, with lots of freedom, you can still be pro-active by giving players options to choose from (including forging their own path) rather than just leaving it up to them.

Incidentally, while many other GM's might disagree with this, only accept players that you think you can work with. If somebody sends to me a character sheet that shows they don't understand the source material, I probably can't work with that person. If I've seen somebody on the board be aggressive and difficult, I definitely can't work with that person. As far as I'm concerned, they're ticking time-bombs. It's much easier to be clear, open, positive and understanding with people who will extend those courtesies to you.

Ultimately, my advice is that by the time you have a problem, it's probably too late to fix it. Shut the stable door before the horse bolts. If you've allowed interest to wane, you're probably not getting it back. If you've allowed somebody aggressive in, it's only a matter of time before they'll kick off.

[NuttsnBolts]

TL;DR: RPG, please explain to me how not to be a dick to my players.

@DMZ

Lol, Ok so I did read it, but to reference every point and critique each part in detail like what @Jig has done is something that would take me a long time.

When it comes to an RP you have to remember that it is your RP. Stick to what you want and tell them straight, "This is how I want it to be". Your role as the GM (Game Master) means that you are in control of the RP so what you say and what you tell your players is pretty much Law.

If you have a player that is causing problems then you may have to put your foot down and tell what is going to happen.

1: Give them a choice in either fixing up their attitude, post, character... or leave.
2: If they refuse then mention that you may have to take this further and ask for a moderator to step in... and they'll pretty much say the same thing but will have that power of saying, "We are now watching you."
3: Most importantly, apologise afterwards for any inconveniences to the other players. They want to know that it is resolved and that they can play on without interruptions. Any further distractions will mean that they will eventually disperse and 'go dark'.

What you need to remember though is that the longer any disputes go on, the more of a hit your RP will take. So as soon as you have a problem, ADDRESS IT! It's also a good reason why a Co-GM is a good thing because you can have a quick meeting to check to see if you, yourself, are overreacting to something that you saw.

Also, be reasonable... Don't threaten to boot someone if it's a minor error and also understand that most people that enter 'want' to enter your RP if they liked the idea enough to create a character.

[DMZ]

@Jig@NuttsnBolts Many thanks for the clear explanations folks. Very educational.

[potatochipgolem]

I've been reading the posts throughly and while I do agree that it seems like the player is a bit aggressive, he backs up his attitude with evidence (the image things he posted of your, honestly, rather halfassed messages back to him which I don't blame him for reacting to, I know if it were me I would react somewhat like that too). I have met several people who play dungeons and dragons IRL who think they are everything because they think they 'run the game' but often forget that without those actually playing the game, there would be nothing at all.

I don't know what happened exactly since he seemed to have taken away the IC posts when he left (?) but from what I've gathered, you might not be as innocent as you portray yourself to be. To be completely honest.

I'm feeling iffy about what is happening But nonetheless I shall share my opinions on how to deal with these matters. Like jig said, it's not 'your game', it's not 'their game' either. It's everyone's. They have invested as much time as anyone else and it's better that you don't forget that. That's the whole reason it is Roleplaying, not Recounting. Everyone has a part, not only you.

But he left on his own in the end and from my experience, anyone who bothered to stay that long in any roleplay doesn't usually leave for a no good reason. That's kind of what prompted me to decide against joining your roleplay even though I was intrigued by it, I had the feeling something was not right.

I'm being very frank in here because I think you might genuinely want to know what others thought and I believe lying nicieties aren't going to accomplish anything, I'm not trying to hurt you or anything.

[DMZ]

-snip-

@potatochipgolem

That's exactly why I made this thread; not to prove how innocent I was, but to see what I was doing wrong. As such, I do take everything said personal, but not as an attack. My feelings don't come into play here.

The IC posts were nuked because the player kept editing them from the original, story-fitting post to basically 'I left because GM is jerk'. I don't care about the personal attack, but I would have liked to keep the original posts instead of the edited attacks. Thus, I requested a moderator to nuke them(This was after they were all edited down to a single sentence). I purposefully left everything in the OOC because I do not intend to hide anything, for people to see what transpired.

There's no angle here that I'm purposefully trying to force. I was confused as to why certain players left, and asked for help on determining what I did wrong in handling it.

I thank you for the criticism, it is most welcome. I've learned from this thread that if something like this happens again, I'm going to shut it down gracefully and quickly. I do not enjoy this drama.

[potatochipgolem]

Sure, I say the same thing - no one likes drama or gathering attention for drama, especially in a forum.