[OOC] Maximum Comics: Dawn of Justice | REBRANDING - PLEASE STAY TUNED

[Sloth]

As long as it's not too out there (looking at you, manga)

@Byrd Man

Your average manga character can't be too far "out there" when compared to a talking raccoon in space with a bazooka, a cat that somehow managed to become a Red Lantern, etc. etc.

[Byrd Man]

<Snipped quote by Byrd Man>

Why not both? He barely appears and is barely what you call a character. That he's a reference to George Smiley is likely, but it's not confirmed. So he's George, M's secretary.

And let's not call this is a stir. I'm just voicing my opinion - and without support at that. So again, I'm fine with whatever outcome. I certainly don't want to hinder you in the story you want to tell.

@Agent Orange

So much for assembling the Literary Avengers.

[Gowi]

<Snipped quote by Byrd Man>

Your average manga character can't be too far "out there" when compared to a talking raccoon in space with a bazooka, a cat that somehow managed to become a Red Lantern, etc. etc.

@Sloth

Uncle Sam is the literal spirit of america. Father Time is currently in the comics reincarnated as a japanese schoolgirl. Howard the Duck. etc etc

[Agent Orange]

So who wanted to do Kamen Rider again?

[Sloth]

So who wanted to do Kamen Rider again?

@Agent Orange

Where you at, @Rin?

[Gowi]

*sigh*

So, moving on. Dutch certainly has brought up some decent points and I'm tired so I don't know where I completely stand.

[Byrd Man]

*sigh*

So, moving on. Dutch certainly has brought up some decent points and I'm tired so I don't know where I completely stand.

@Gowi

If you guys want me to withdraw its fine. I said that I knew he was barely in a comic book before I even started working on my CS.

[Rin]

...Someone mentioned Kamen Rider?

EDIT: Eeesh, feel like I walked into a really awkward conversation here. ^^;

[Morden Man]

*sigh*

So, moving on. Dutch certainly has brought up some decent points and I'm tired so I don't know where I completely stand.

@Gowi

I'm cool with it.

It's good that we've had the discussion but I think you've been clear from the beginning that you'll take things at a case by case basis. I don't see that George Smiley ought to be an issue, especially given that (by extension) SHIELD is the corner of the IC universe that has the most impact on the character I'm playing and I'm fine with it.

[Dblade26]

I was quiet on this earlier buuuuuut....

...Someone mentioned Kamen Rider?

EDIT: Eeesh, feel like I walked into a really awkward conversation here. ^^;

@Rin

Eh, pretty sure the MOST awkward bits are over, and Gowi and Sloth bring up a good point, not every manga or anime is 'out there' and there are several properties I could legitimately see fitting in in Maximum if adapted right, especially things influenced heavily by western comics as is, which I'm also aware is a point that Rin tried to bring up before being sniggered down by exclusionists earlier on making comments about 'anime tiddies' and the inherent bizarre and clashing nature of the medium.

...Which honestly has never made sense to me since you already have a fair amount of manga/tokusatsu/japanese media influence in western comics anyway and vice versa. Most Excellent Super-Bat and the Super Young Team come to mind despite their semi-parody nature, Dum-Dum Dugan freaking fights Godzilla at a few points and then STARK International and S.H.I.E.L.D. build a giant Red Ronin Super Robot to fight him again, which gets stolen by a twelve-year-old boy. Lord Death-Man the immortal japanese crime lord originated in the Bat-Manga but he's been re-used in Western Comics since. Sonic the Hedgehog and Megaman, two characters I've seen people involved in previous Maximum stuff before express interest in, both have their roots in Japanese media and the former is a blue, supersonic talking anthropomorphic hedgehog. Hell, under the current indie comic rules, you could probably try for Avatar stuff and that's about as manga and anime influenced as you can get in western media.

As for the reverse of Manga being influenced by comics, while I could go into the history of the medium and the fact that Osamu Tezuka's stuff was all inspired by Disney Comics, I'll mostly go the route of bringing up Tiger and Bunny which is basically 'Western Superheroes exist in Japan, but they all have corporate sponsors' Kamen Rider which although it's flashy and over the top could easily be modified to fit, and the fact that both multiple comics characters and multiple comic book authors from the west have been involved in manga series of their own, some of which were actually not terrible.

and as far as the thing that brought this to my attention, Kamen Rider:

BOOM!

Have a Kamen Rider appearing in an official Marvel Comics publication!

Sure it only went one issue, but that's more than George Smiley got. So if Rin really wanted to use a Kamen Rider and people REALLY don't want manga and tokusatsu characters looked at on a one a one-by-one basis for acceptability, she still technically could do it.

[Sloth]

and speaking of Kamen Rider:

BOOM!

Have a Kamen Rider appearing in an official Marvel Comics publication!

@Dblade26

More importantly we have the presence of....



Unless that was supposed to be Super Sentai in which case oh well.

[Gowi]

I was quiet on this earlier buuuuuut....
<Snipped quote by Rin>

Eh, pretty sure the MOST awkward bits are over, and Gowi and Sloth bring up a good point, not every manga or anime is 'out there' and there are several properties I could legitimately see fitting in in Maximum if adapted right, especially things influenced heavily by western comics as is, which I'm also aware is a point that Rin tried to bring up before being sniggered down by exclusionists earlier on making comments about 'anime tiddies' and the inherent bizarre and clashing nature of the medium.

...Which honestly has never made sense to me since you already have a fair amount of manga/tokusatsu/japanese media influence in western comics anyway and vice versa. Most Excellent Super-Bat and the Super Young Team come to mind despite their semi-parody nature, Dum-Dum Dugan freaking fights Godzilla at a few points and then STARK International and S.H.I.E.L.D. build a giant Red Ronin Super Robot to fight him again, which gets stolen by a twelve-year-old boy. Lord Death-Man the immortal japanese crime lord originated in the Bat-Manga but he's been re-used in Western Comics since. Sonic the Hedgehog and Megaman, two characters I've seen people involved in previous Maximum stuff before express interest in, both have their roots in Japanese media and the former is a blue, supersonic talking anthropomorphic hedgehog.

and speaking of Kamen Rider:

BOOM!

Have a Kamen Rider appearing in an official Marvel Comics publication!

Sure it only went one issue, but that's more than George Smiley got. So if Rin really wanted to use a Kamen Rider and people REALLY don't want manga and tokusatsu characters looked at one a one-by-one basis for acceptability, she still technically could do it.

@Dblade26

In the spirit of discussion, the 1983 run of Amethyst Princess of Gemworld went on to inspire Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura. There’s a huge depth of superhero mythos (Yoroiden Samurai Troopers, Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Astro Boy, etc.) not to mention previous Singularized games did not contest Power Rangers. I think it’s incredibly biased, elitist, and uninformed to be staunchly anti-manga for the reason that Japanese comics are Japanese.

I agree that added too many options, awkward unfamiliarities, and so forth is a good reason not to include manga but “too outlandish” is most certainly not one of them and wrong.

[Rin]

@Dblade26But Saban's Masked Rider was awful. XD And yet it was the English adaptation everyone watched, whilst Kamen Rider Dragon Knight was great but no-one watched the damn thing. XD

@SlothNah, it's a western comic so it's definitely Power Rangers.

@GowiPlaying devil's advocate for a bit, the one argument against including eastern stuff in this that I'd agree with most would be... Well, that they're eastern, and this is set in America. Would need a bit of fiddling about with logistics to make it work, and stuff that's very grounded in Japanese culture would especially be a bit difficult to transplant.

[Gowi]

@Dblade26But Saban's Masked Rider was awful. XD And yet it was the English adaptation everyone watched, whilst Kamen Rider Dragon Knight was great but no-one watched the damn thing. XD

@SlothNah, it's a western comic so it's definitely Power Rangers.

@GowiPlaying devil's advocate for a bit, the one argument against including eastern stuff in this that I'd agree with most would be... Well, that they're eastern, and this is set in America. Would need a bit of fiddling about with logistics to make it work, and stuff that's very grounded in Japanese culture would especially be a bit difficult to transplant.

@Rin

This is set primarily on Earth. We have a few Galactic characters too.

Honestly if I would ever add manga it'd fall under the "case-by-case" basis rule that I have for indie comics (that means no Death Note, Joe). But there is a lot of players (and one GM) that are opposed to it, so I'm not sure how to handle even the suggestion.

Writing Kamen Rider or Super Sentai would be no different than running Silver Samurai or Sunfire or Shang-Chi and so on.

[Sloth]

@SlothNah, it's a western comic so it's definitely Power Rangers.

@Rin

I NEED DRAGONZORD POWER!

@GowiPlaying devil's advocate for a bit, the one argument against including eastern stuff in this that I'd agree with most would be... Well, that they're eastern, and this is set in America. Would need a bit of fiddling about with logistics to make it work, and stuff that's very grounded in Japanese culture would especially be a bit difficult to transplant.

@Rin

Plenty of dubs have attempted to "localize" anime by transferring the location to what's at least supposed to be quasi-America. Granted most of the time it's pretty shit.

Besides, what's wrong with having people writing stories over in that lovable hive of weirdness known as Japan?

I feel I should note that in no point during this conversation should anyone take anything I say seriously.

[Rin]

@GowiIt just seemed like there's a noticable American slant to me, is all. ^^; But I get what you mean. I honestly don't see much difference between Kamen Rider and western superheroes, or stuff like Sailor Moon, Precure and the like and stuff like Captain Marvel (the Shazam! one).

...I do find it a bit baffling that people mentioned that anime/manga is more "out there" than western comics though. I've read Grant Morrison's run on Doom Patrol and that's far more out there than any manga I've ever read. XD ...Except maybe Bobobo I guess.

[Gowi]

<Snipped quote by Gowi>

If you guys want me to withdraw its fine. I said that I knew he was barely in a comic book before I even started working on my CS.

@Byrd Man

I think the GM staff doesn't have an issue with the character or the "sketchy" bits Dutch was concerned by. On a case-by-case basis, I think we'll be fine with it.

[An Outsider]

I feel I should note that in no point during this conversation should anyone take anything I say seriously.

@Sloth

Never have, never will.

[HenryJonesJr]

<Snipped quote by Dblade26>

In the spirit of discussion, the 1983 run of Amethyst Princess of Gemworld went on to inspire Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura. There’s a huge depth of superhero mythos (Yoroiden Samurai Troopers, Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Astro Boy, etc.) not to mention previous Singularized games did not contest Power Rangers. I think it’s incredibly biased, elitist, and uninformed to be staunchly anti-manga for the reason that Japanese comics are Japanese.

I agree that added too many options, awkward unfamiliarities, and so forth is a good reason not to include manga but “too outlandish” is most certainly not one of them and wrong.

@Gowi

To be fair, I totally would have contested Power Rangers on multiple occasions if I wasn't sure I was going to lose those contests. lol

[Dblade26]

I'm aware of how awful Masked Rider was, I'm just saying there's TECHNICALLY a presence in comics you could argue for, even if it's a minimal and absolutely terrible one. I'm sure it could be used for something fun if you actually tried XD

I'm not saying OPEN THE FLOODGATES AND LET ALL OF IT IN! I'm just saying there's sufficient connection and depth that a writer doing a decent job should get the chance to have their ideas evaluated like everyone else's even if manga's their chosen medium considering the long and intertwined history of the two.