[OOC] Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

[Lord Zee]

@Cyclone Yeah! I would have liked to see what would have became of the Watcher that Promus sent to spy on Larwen. As I recall, he got a bit corrupted and would have slowly became 'perfected' or something along those lines. It's been awhile but I think we did discuss what would have happened.

I guess my only concern with Advanced is that many people don't use it a lot, and or are intimidated/afraid of writing lengthy posts. But at the same time, I feel like most rp's in casual could be considered advanced so who knows. As with any Rp I join, my biggest concern is player retention and I hate to see a good thing die out early.

I'm all for a rework of the prestige system though, I think it can only get better. As it was in Godspeed, I enjoyed it mainly because it was, to me at least, akin to a reward system for posting and delving into the character. And who doesn't like titles?

[Muttonhawk]

A rework of the rules mechanics and a move to Advanced would be cool. I would especially like Might to get chopped up to be a bit less rushable and to get more might for purely creative tasks. All this stuff would require brainstorming but I can see it working.

As for the layers of the universe, I very much like that idea, just so long as there aren't too many default layers to start with -- or if there are, just so they aren't the kitchen sink of places you see in Forgotten Realms or Golarion. I would make a distinct exception for a mysterious source and sink of souls flowing to/from the spheres inhabiting mortals.

If there is anything else I would like to transfer over, it would be the slowly developing idea of divine essence as we know it in this iteration. Toun's been on a journey to discover How Gods Do this entire time and I have a bunch of notes for that stuff that are kinda nifty and generalisable.

[Cyclone]

@Muttonhawk

Right, my preference is that there are just a bunch of empty “shells” and that Galbar would be the only default one. So we’re in agreement there. Regarding MP, I’m open to ideas.

[BBeast]

To start with, I'm of the opinion that it's high time we took a collective dive into the deep end and made a Divinus in the Advanced RP section. This is basically the opposite approach of what was done with Godspeed some time ago, so I'm interested in seeing how it might turn out differently.

@Cyclone

Let's be honest, Divinus has always been an Advanced RP and we've just been kidding everyone that it was Casual.

Another idea I had to differentiate it from past Divinus RPs was to bunker down bigtime on the mythology, magic, and divine aspects. Basically I'd canonize the metaphysics as being more or less completely Aristotelian; the universe would be composed of a series of numerous concentric spheres and would be Galbar-centric. With Galbar as the middle sphere, there'd be upper 'Celestial' spheres with the stars and such embedded into them, as well as 'lower' spheres that might contain an underworld and the like.

@Cyclone

This reminds me of something Logos said a while back.

"Were our influence to remain bound to one sphere, the expanse of reality would have been considerably... less."

The spheres are a cool idea which really reinforce the mythic themes of Divinus. However, the primary effect is centering the focus on Galbar. In the current iteration, the only thing special about Galbar is that we've decided to make it special. But we've been having issues with people just nicking off to the far side of the Universe, which can be problematic as we now have people playing by themselves rather than with everyone else. By literally making Galbar (or whatever we eventually decide to name the world) the center of the universe, we don't need to contrive a reason for people to stay on Galbar, and we also won't have people getting distracted by an infinite number of worlds to inhabit. This is a good thing.

Anyways, the concept of the spheres would tie in to the nature of divinity and the powers of the gods. ...

Given the much greater emphasis on personal planes by lieu of this concept of spheres, I am tempted to make modifications to the Domain(Portfolio) system. Specifically I find myself tempted to say that 'Domains' as we call them are no longer necessary; I could rename Portfolios to something more like Foci. A god could then take completely unrelated Foci, like Horses, Earthquakes, and Seas (a la Poseidon). Though you wouldn't start with one, our notion of 'Domain' could perhaps be renamed to Cluster. Taking multiple closely-related Foci like Volcanoes and Forges would give you a cluster over that sort of thing, in this case Fire. Having the cluster of Fire would imply some level of mastery and control over all things Fire-related, even if they aren't technically Foci.

@Cyclone

I'm still partial to the name 'Portfolio'. It accurately describes what it is: the range of specialised skills and abilities you have acquired.

From what I gather in what you're describing, 'Domains' as we call them are superseded by the Sphere you bind yourself to/affiliate with, correct? This seems to be natural. Your Sphere describes where you are most powerful and gives a general theme (although not restrictions) to your power.

Clusters seem interesting. The concept might need some refining, but I think there's something workable there.

I would have a figure that I'll nickname 'the Architect of the Spheres' as the informal leader of the pantheon.

@Cyclone

This works nicely, especially for setting up such a specific and structured cosmology before the players arrive.

[Double Capybara]

In all honesty, I don't know if I will join the next itineration of Divinus. I love you guys and had some fun years I hadn't had on the internet since 2011, but, ultimately, I am kinda tired. I spent a lot of time on KG and that was cut short. Furthermore, Ilunabar herself has kinda fallen into limbo and I don't ever feel like playing her.

I just keep doing Mesathalassa and Dzanya stuff because I really like worldbuilding, so I am very attached to this part of the game, but right now I just have no thoughts in mind for a new character or a new god or a new nation or a new species... ¯\_('_' )_/¯ It has been frustrating to see that my work hasn't really advanced much, hell, sometimes it went backwards in quality, and that has been making me think a lot about my approach to things.

Though new games do typically have more interaction between players, which is something I liked in early MK2 and Godspeed. So I do become kinda torn.

With the things discussed here, I don't think there is much to add, godspeed thaught us a lot about how to run this game, clear and present structures are fun, the new prestige system was fun, Mater Lei was fun. We also already acknowledge that isolationism ain't fun, especially when characters are unreachable. However we did have a few issues, namely, the whole language issue, where we had a fight between players just wanting to move on and players not wanting to feel left behind, both valid sides. The same happened here in MK2, over metal weaponry, but I think the problems in MK2 were as much born from that issue as well as the problem of the difference between godly time and mortal time. It took a lot of handwaving to get away with having people being born in early stone age societies but dying in late bronze age societies.

One solution for that is making early mortals live for 500 years like in the bible, lol

Edit: Oh! And give a wiki to the new game from the start. Or something similar, something better than having to deal with character sheets, which were abandoned in both versions, and then take that extra accessibility and make it recommended to have at least one short sentence explaining what is what on the wiki/whatever for important concepts.

Edit 2: Quests should have added bonuses if the god giving the quest is not the same one which gave said hero their heroic status. It should also be possible to set up open quests which any hero can give a go at.

Oh, and for real, keep the holy order/society and hero system of Godspeed, as someone who is using a lot MK2's society and hero system, that one was so much better.

[Cyclone]

I guess my only concern with Advanced is that many people don't use it a lot, and or are intimidated/afraid of writing lengthy posts. But at the same time, I feel like most rp's in casual could be considered advanced so who knows. As with any Rp I join, my biggest concern is player retention and I hate to see a good thing die out early.

@Lord Zee

My hope is that those on he Advanced section would be more serious about the commitment and less likely to just vanish. I also really want to challenge myself. I've certainly felt a lot less passionate about writing over the past two years, and it's shown. I recently went way back through my post history and read some stuff from 5-6 years ago expecting it to be bad, but my jaw dropped, because I honestly think the stuff I wrote back then was in many ways superior to the chaff I've been churning out recently.

It was this post that sobered me to that opinion, lol

Elysium's sea was unpredictable. The weather oscillated much in these parts; however, more oft than not it was calm. There were on occasion gales of wind that not even the briny clefts could withstand, and tempests that could toss about ships like dice in some sort of game of the gods. Today, however, it was tranquil. The calm waves scintillated with white diamonds of light as they basked in the sun's warmth. Seagulls and herons flew in lazy circles, fat from an overabundance of fish. One could hardly imagine a paradise more serene.

But deep below the waves... that was another world. A thousand fathoms below the waves, all was black. The darkness itself could swallow minnow and whale alike. A thousand fathoms below that, there was a gaping trench. One could descend into that black abyss for hours until he forgot which way was up and which was down, becoming yet another pale skeleton to rest at the bottom. Yes, this trench had a bottom, though few living souls ever saw it. There were vents that spewed out searing oil and vile gases from the bowels of the earth; poisons to most, but food for some. A whole ecosystem had thrived here since the world's first days, tiny microbes that metabolized the gases fed larger, carnivorous creatures, which fed even bigger creatures, and so on. One of these creatures, an albino, eyeless fish, darted into a cave with a mouthful of smaller fish. It had to bring tribute to its master; lest his ire consume all the creatures of the trench.

At the very end of the cave there had once been a door that led to a staircase, one that descended down into the very core of Elysium. There, some great artifact had been stowed away long ago. There had also been a noble guardian that dwelled in this cave, guarding the door. None had ever tried to enter, but if they had, they would no doubt have been driven off by the great, three-eyed giant that the world's creator had left behind.

Now, the door was sealed and hidden, and there was a twisted, depraved creature shackled to the wall by great chains and ancient magic. Balon was his name. He had been commanded to spend an eternity alone in the deeps of the sea, guarding some holy artifact that he had never even seen. For a time, Balon had done as he was told, but the solitude was maddening. The fish down here were dark, spiteful things that hated the light above and those that lived in it. In time, their malice rubbed off on the guardian. When his creator and master left, Balon realized his freedom. Abandoning his post, he climbed up the rocky walls of the trench and clambered up onto the ocean's shores, then went about reaving and murdering.

Entire villages fell before the giant, who could pound a man into the ground just as easily as he could strike him down with a bolt of magical lightning. Those men that he did not kill or devour, he enslaved. For a time, Balon was king of the land, the shore, and the ocean's blackest reaches. He had a great palace built by the sea. He taxed his subjects to the brink of starvation so that he could have a mountain of gold and jewels to call his own. Some tales would have it that he fathered half a hundred monstrous children; the first of the trolls, cyclopes, and other filth that plagued Elysium to this day.

And then the creator returned, enraged to see what had happened in his absence. Balon's great palace fell like a mere sandcastle before nature's onslaught; hurricanes and earthquakes scattered its stones across the whole continent and buried the vaults of gold beneath a thousand tons of rubble and a mile of seawater. Balon was ordered back to his post, and cursed to die if he ever set foot on dry land again. Out of spite and contempt, the giant sought to ruin what he could not have. Within the depths of his sea cave there was a great cauldron. He coerced the marine creatures to bring him all sorts of strange things from all corners of the planet, and then for nearly a decade, he stirred and mixed poisons in his great cauldron. At last, when he deemed his brew ready, he grabbed an eel and tossed it into the cauldron. The black fluid inside rotted the poor creature's flesh and blistered its skin. The writhing, still living creature splashed some of the fluid in one of the giant's three eyes, before dying. The plague nearly killed Balon, but alas, the land was not so lucky. The sickness eventually left the corrupted guardian, although the magic and the toxins lingered. That eye never saw again; and neither did any creature unfortunate enough to be caught by that blind eye's stare, as they were doomed to meet the same fate as the eel.

Balon released the vile fluid into the ocean, and exerted his command over the sea. The currents carried the plague to ports, and men began dying like flies, helpless against the magical disease. Needless to say, the creator was infuriated at this second betrayal, and cursed the treacherous guardian with every ailment he could think of before having him imprisoned at the depths of the world for the rest of time. Balon was wrought with the symptoms of his own disease; he lost sight in yet another of his three eyes, his skin turned black as coal, and his bones and muscles deteriorated to the point that it was a struggle to move; a fight to stay alive.

The fish that darted into the cave at last reached its master. The giant was still a king of the sea, even in chains. He still wore ancient bronze armor, covered in intricate runes and enchantments. At his side was a great spear and a shield; to look at them at remember what he once had hurt Balon almost as much as the curse. The giant was careful not to look at this fish, but not so much out of kindness. The creatures of the trench had been growing more and more rebellious and unruly, seeing that the tyrant wasn't as powerful as in the older days. If this fish died, Balon might very well starve to death with none of the others willing to bring food.

With an unusual amount of ease, Balon reached out with his hand to take the food from the fish's mouth. The ancient chains rattled, and as they did so, something caught Balon's eye: a little speck of rust had formed on his otherwise immaculate shackles. It took a moment to realize what this meant. And then, for the first time in centuries, the giant guffawed. His laughter was a scary thing to hear, even distorted by the water. At last! These chains were immune to rust and impossible to break; being tied to the creator, they would last until the end of time. Or the end of the creator's life, it would seem. With his body strengthening as the chains and magical force field around him weakened, it would seem that the accursed giant had outlived the righteous, arrogant fool that he hated.

Balon looked at his spear and shield. He remembered the thrill of battle, the power he had once wielded, the lands he had conquered. That gave him the strength to break free. With a thunderous sound, the giant pulled so hard that his chains were ripped out of the rock wall. Although they were still attached to his wrists, that was of little matter. Nothing could impede him, nothing would stand between the giant and the freedom that he had reminisced over for so long. The six yard tall giant snatched up his spear and shield, then stood tall. If he were not underwater, Balon would have likely fallen down. His muscles were still weak from the curse, and sitting for a few centuries meant that he almost had no balance; however, that didn't stop him. A few hours later, the bronze-clad sea giant was clambering back onto the shore. The sea was no longer harmonious, by any standards; a horrendous storm had rolled in to herald the old king's return. It felt good to walk on solid land once more.

Young Cyclone

And I think that ties in with what @Double Capybara has said. I used to never really have second thoughts about joining RPs, but it happens all the time now. Most topics just don't draw my passion, writing for them isn't as fun, and the quality of my posts is worse. But if another Divinus RP can't hold my interests then I doubt if anything ever could; I also love this series.

@BBeast You seem to be more or less in support of all that I said on that first descriptive post; that's assuring to me because I hold your opinion in high esteem.

Anyways, after receiving nothing but approval towards the idea of the Spheres as a main theme, I'm now thoroughly sold on it. I'll roll with that as the foundation for the reworked Divinus' mechanics and lore.

Edit 2: Quests should have added bonuses if the god giving the quest is not the same one which gave said hero their heroic status. It should also be possible to set up open quests which any hero can give a go at.

@Double Capybara

We're in complete agreement.

Oh, and for real, keep the holy order/society and hero system of Godspeed, as someone who is using a lot MK2's society and hero system, that one was so much better.

Oh yes; the basis will almost certainly remain the same, I'm just not entirely sold upon the title system that was adopted halfway through. Thoughts on a revert to having hero levels instead of just upgrading titles?

Edit: Oh! And give a wiki to the new game from the start. Or something similar, something better than having to deal with character sheets, which were abandoned in both versions, and then take that extra accessibility and make it recommended to have at least one short sentence explaining what is what on the wiki/whatever for important concepts.

@everyone

Thoughts on using a wikia as the mandatory spot for all sheets, to aid in organization? Our character section for every Divinus has been an absolute mess and Capy might be on to something here.

Edit: Re: the player conflicts that Capy brought up,

I think that can be solved in part by a heavy-handed emphasis on magic and an upfront decision to have most of Galbar's mortals advance somewhat slowly. Perhaps a general nerf on the worth of MP and initial power and influence of gods might also be effective in achieving this; I'd like to make it harder for a god to singlehandedly make their own race and then bestow unto them countless gifts that bring them up to par with the rest of the world. Ideally advancing mortal civilizations would take quite a bit of MP and therefore require longer periods of time or the collaboration of numerous gods.

One solution for that is making early mortals live for 500 years like in the bible, lol

Yup, that's Gerrick for you.

[BBeast]

Thoughts on using a wikia as the mandatory spot for all sheets, to aid in organization? Our character section for every Divinus has been an absolute mess and Capy might be on to something here.

@Cyclone

Using the Wiki from the start would probably help enormously with organisation. A post-hoc attempt to build the wiki was fraught with challenges and holes, but if we start from the beginning then it should be achievable, especially if we only require people to make a one-sentence page when they make things rather than asking for a whole sheet up front.

[Frettzo]

Whelp, I am just ashamed to show my face in here. Every time I "come back", I end up disappearing instantly, and it all boils down to the little thing that gave me the fire to write as Astarte... A desire for freedom.

It was something I didn't have, freedom, back in my old home, and my greatest way of tasting it was through writing as Astarte. Her antics, her personality, the way she was unpredictable. It was all so lovely to me, such a breath of fresh air to my soul.

It pains me to say, I don't think it is so anymore. I love her, and I love Divinus and all the characters in it (I mean, who can forget all the adventures we've had? The years we've spent together?), but I just can't keep writing this character, I can't get myself to bring her back as she should be.

Those of you who joined Godspeed noticed the vast difference in my characters. While Astarte has always been my character, and she's always been unpredictable, Aella was much more calm, collected and serious. It reflects my growth as a person, the things I desire in life, and I believe even that has changed lately.

I don't know your names, or your faces, I don't know your dreams, but is it not true that we've been a part of each other's lives for a long time, is it not true that we will remember and cherish, with so much nostalgia, these little characters and stories we've told here?

I've derailed my own post long enough. I want you, my friends, to know that I want to keep sharing words with you. I want to keep building worlds by your side. And so, I want to offer you my full support in this coming iteration of the Divinus series. Do you need graphics done for the wikia? I can do so. Do you need to talk to someone about ideas for characters or arcs? I'm always available for you guys. Please do ask me for help if you need it, and I will do my best to support you.

Also I might create an entirely new character when the new Divinus comes around. These last few years have been so hectic yet so dull for me, so I really want to bring some color back into my stuff, yeah? :)

[BBeast]

@Frettzo, over the course of such a long roleplay (it's been almost 3 years), it is not surprising that some of our motivations shift and what we find fun to write changes. We've all grown attached to our stories and characters so we will surely remember the stories we have shared for a long time to come. I'm sure you'll find a new character to play which sparks your interest. You are always welcome here and in Divinus's to come.

[Cyclone]

@Frettzo

Good to hear from you again! I'll reiterate what BBeast said, and also go on to actually encourage you to try your hand at creating something new should you make a character for this next iteration that I'm planning. Fear not the unknown!

Your offer of art is much appreciated. I may well take you up on that as well as ask for help from those that made our current wiki to make a new one, but that can probably come in a week or two. In the meantime I'll try to start brewing up a new OP and description of all the mechanics so that we have something more concrete to look at. Perhaps an interest check can come afterward.

[Lord Zee]

@Cyclone That was really good! But yeah, I hope for commitment as well, I feel like Godspeed suffered from that. Here's to better chances!

Never used a wiki before, but I am not opposed to the idea, could be fun.

@Frettzo Let me just say that I am so glad to see you back and well. I really enjoyed what Larwen and Aella had in Godspeed, and I really wanted to see what would have happened with them. I look forward to seeing what interactions our characters might have in the future!

[Muttonhawk]

I have a few things I want to articulate to add to the details of the next Divinus, but I'm really tired tonight -- I think I'll defer that for a bit later.

Frettzo, make me cry all you want, you still owe me a drawing of a hain ;_;
Also don't ever be ashamed to be here, my dude.
...You know, unless your university friends google your steam ID and accidentally come across a corny 1x1 RP you write in, but that's just me.

In other news, if and when we get a new iteration going, you'd best believe I'll be writing epilogues for my characters and creations. I ain't leaving that shit out in the cold.

[Frettzo]

Frettzo, make me cry all you want, you still owe me a drawing of a hain ;_;

@Muttonhawk

Those lil buggers are so difficult to picture in my head! I actually imagine their heads to be shaped like the Alien from Alien vs Predator

[Cyclone]

In other news, if and when we get a new iteration going, you'd best believe I'll be writing epilogues for my characters and creations. I ain't leaving that shit out in the cold.

@Muttonhawk

Ah, but as I was saying before, I've deemed it unnecessary to maintain linearity. In other words, I'm not going to wait for this RP to end before starting the new one (I expect to have something up within a few weeks at the latest) so don't feel as if you'd be abandoning your characters and stories here. I'll still be around here to see things to their end regardless of whatever goes on in the shiny new Divinus.

Since it seems a popular thing to have past installments of Divinus remain canon as previous universes, I'll be very vague about how the universe of the spheres relates to this Galbar's universe or that of Godspeed. In time the gap might be bridged IC.

[Vec]

Merry Christmas to all of you!



I see a lot of talk about a new Divinus and a lot of opinions being thrown about. What I want to say is that despite all my inactivity and general lack of presence in the latter parts of the RP, I thoroughly enjoyed my time with you all while I was fairly active. You guys have shown me what a few ideas and some collaborative work can give birth to (i.e. 150k word posts... looking at you @Cyclone and @Antarctic Termite).

It's been close to 3 years since the start of MK2, and I like to think that getting to know you all through your writing throughout these 3 years has been one of the best RP experiences I've had since I started RPing.

I think we should all take this time, spend Christmas with our loved ones or however you'd like, and then come back reinvigorated and ready for whatever lies ahead.

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

I have a few things I want to articulate to add to the details of the next Divinus, but I'm really tired tonight -- I think I'll defer that for a bit later.

Frettzo, make me cry all you want, you still owe me a drawing of a hain ;_;
Also don't ever be ashamed to be here, my dude.
...You know, unless your university friends google your steam ID and accidentally come across a corny 1x1 RP you write in, but that's just me.

In other news, if and when we get a new iteration going, you'd best believe I'll be writing epilogues for my characters and creations. I ain't leaving that shit out in the cold.

@Muttonhawk

Hopefully I will join the next Divinus.

[Muttonhawk]

<Snipped quote by Muttonhawk>

Those lil buggers are so difficult to picture in my head! I actually imagine their heads to be shaped like the Alien from Alien vs Predator

@Frettzo

Damn! I should have given hain little snappy heads on the ends of their tongues...

<Snipped quote by Muttonhawk>

Ah, but as I was saying before, I've deemed it unnecessary to maintain linearity...

@Cyclone

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm probably not going to get around to extending Minus & Cinead's storyline, Majus' current shenanigans, the Yorum series, and wherever the hell Conata's going to end up. There's still the final showdown between Toun and Zyus to do, but I'm not sure if I'll get further than that.

Re: Wikiing
Absolutely. Kicking off with a requirement to make at least a two-sentence stub page for each significant creation and important character will help immensely at keeping things organised.

I think my forays into this wiki showed that my eyes were waaaay to big for my typing fingers. Don't get me wrong, it was fun to elaborate on hain anatomy and social behaviour but I think that drew away from the original purpose of getting a wiki together.

Re: Technological advancement and mortality
Alright. Rambling time!

I actually found this part to be a tad too gamey for the style we ended up going for. It was thematic to keep technological advancement for Teknall and co, but the arguments we had smacked of avoiding players playing to win the game rather than telling stories. Closely guarded technological advantage is the go-to way to justify steamrolling half a world map in the space of two or three posts. I would propose going about it a different way for next time. I have two ideas:

1. We can keep the technological aesthetic in the hands of the GM and the turns. Rather than civilizations independently discovering things or being bestowed the knowledge by their gods, we can have the setting epoch displayed on the new turn posts, thus dictating what is widespread in the world now. We can start off in the stone age (or the bronze age because that might be more fun tbh) and advance as the turn pace requires. Exceptions can be made for one-off blessings, for example a god bestowing a limited collection of steel weapons for a devoted century of soldiers or something.

2. We pick a technological age for the setting and stick with it. I'm not saying we should make the entirety of Galbar stuck in the feudal age for thousands of years ala Middle Earth, but it may help us stay consistent to what we want to explore.

There are downsides to each here for sure. You can probably tell what the tradeoffs are without me laying them out.

Another problem still present is relative timescale. We had people dealing with mortals and civilizations growing at vastly different paces, which cause the progression of years to come to a massive screeching slowdown in the latter turns of MkII. The stop-gap solution of having a time window in the new turn posts certainly helped, but it didn't make the slow paced stories speed up any. One way to deal with this could be to cram together solutions 1 and 2 above in a way; The opening turns of the game could be reserved for long-term story stuff on the god and civilization level to establish mythology and early creations. As the turns progress, the time window advances less and narrows until its chugging along at a much more mortal pace in a technological age that we don't mind sticking around in for a while. There, we can explore mortal-scale stories and have the godly events happen at a similar pace. If we want to jazz things up, we can vote to do a timeskip of eighty or more years and work with a new era. We could narratively contrive such skips as a temporary period of peace decreed by the Bossman of the Spheres.

Merry Christmas to all of you!



I see a lot of talk about a new Divinus and a lot of opinions being thrown about. What I want to say is that despite all my inactivity and general lack of presence in the latter parts of the RP, I thoroughly enjoyed my time with you all while I was fairly active. You guys have shown me what a few ideas and some collaborative work can give birth to (i.e. 150k word posts... looking at you @Cyclone and @Antarctic Termite).

It's been close to 3 years since the start of MK2, and I like to think that getting to know you all through your writing throughout these 3 years has been one of the best RP experiences I've had since I started RPing.

I think we should all take this time, spend Christmas with our loved ones or however you'd like, and then come back reinvigorated and ready for whatever lies ahead.

@Vec

I feel you man. This has been a great ride. I want to ditto this in that I love you all dearly for making this crazy dysfunctional divine family and the world it has wrought. It's been in this RP that I've been satisfied with the semi-large scale narratives I've written. You guys can say what you like -- we've all got better at writing during this time.

[Cyclone]

@Vec
Merry Christmas back to you! Winter's touch is staved off by your kind words.

I think we should all take this time, spend Christmas with our loved ones or however you'd like, and then come back reinvigorated and ready for whatever lies ahead.

Pah, in my case I say that there's no rest for the wicked. Over the next ten or so days I need to iron out the thoughts swirling around in my head and commit to writing some semblance of the new RP's intro and mechanics.

Currently I'm sold on the ideas of the Spheres (and with it, the tone, theme, and overall 'mood' that I'll try to set) and on the idea of moving all CS stuff onto a wiki. The prestige, MP, leveling/holy site, and timescale things are now standing at the forefront of things to address.

Alright. Rambling time!

I actually found this part to be a tad too gamey for the style we ended up going for. It was thematic to keep technological advancement for Teknall and co, but the arguments we had smacked of avoiding players playing to win the game rather than telling stories. Closely guarded technological advantage is the go-to way to justify steamrolling half a world map in the space of two or three posts. I would propose going about it a different way for next time. I have two ideas:

1. We can keep the technological aesthetic in the hands of the GM and the turns. Rather than civilizations independently discovering things or being bestowed the knowledge by their gods, we can have the setting epoch displayed on the new turn posts, thus dictating what is widespread in the world now. We can start off in the stone age (or the bronze age because that might be more fun tbh) and advance as the turn pace requires. Exceptions can be made for one-off blessings, for example a god bestowing a limited collection of steel weapons for a devoted century of soldiers or something.

2. We pick a technological age for the setting and stick with it. I'm not saying we should make the entirety of Galbar stuck in the feudal age for thousands of years ala Middle Earth, but it may help us stay consistent to what we want to explore.

There are downsides to each here for sure. You can probably tell what the tradeoffs are without me laying them out.

Another problem still present is relative timescale. We had people dealing with mortals and civilizations growing at vastly different paces, which cause the progression of years to come to a massive screeching slowdown in the latter turns of MkII. The stop-gap solution of having a time window in the new turn posts certainly helped, but it didn't make the slow paced stories speed up any. One way to deal with this could be to cram together solutions 1 and 2 above in a way; The opening turns of the game could be reserved for long-term story stuff on the god and civilization level to establish mythology and early creations. As the turns progress, the time window advances less and narrows until its chugging along at a much more mortal pace in a technological age that we don't mind sticking around in for a while. There, we can explore mortal-scale stories and have the godly events happen at a similar pace. If we want to jazz things up, we can vote to do a timeskip of eighty or more years and work with a new era. We could narratively contrive such skips as a temporary period of peace decreed by the Bossman of the Spheres.

@Muttonhawk

I find myself quite opposed to number 2. One of the most fascinating things to explore in these settings are the advancement of civilizations and the inherent struggle between man and nature, technology and progress versus magic and ancient tradition.

Number 1 makes a lot of sense, but the compromise you suggest resonates very well with me. What if I expand your general notion of technological epochs into something even more overarching, perhaps called Ages? I'm thinking that each Age could be perhaps 1-4 turns (unless we decide to have Ages supersede numbered turns altogether!) and have a general theme, a timescale, and a variable amount of MP handed out. For instance, the very first turn or two might be the Age of Creation, then there could be the Age of Myth, Dawn of Civilization, Age of Legend, etc.

Aside from just having cool names and giving me the ability to set timescales ahead of time so that everyone can plan accordingly, I'm thinking it might be interesting to say that the Age of Creation will span ten million years (that's if we want to use geological timescales; it could well be something like fifty days, if we want to be more Biblical) and that all gods get 10MP; however, this MP can't be used to create mortals or level up. And I liked how in Godspeed a holy site was useless unless it had mortal worshipers caring for it, which discourages using the initial 10MP for a holy site. This way, instead of starting with a measly 4MP in keeping with Divinus tradition and using it to level up, everyone will get a relatively hefty chunk so that they can make numerous largescale changes to the surface of Galbar and/or do things with the Sphere of their choice.

The Age of Myth might then span 3 or 4 turns, open up the possibility of creating heroes and life (albeit not civilizations; we're talking dragons and monsters and the sort), and grant a bit less MP.

I think it makes sense to frontload a lot of the MP into earlier turns, since when we have no creations we should be creating a lot of things. As it is, you get loads of MP in later turns once you've already got loads of creations, and that doesn't make much sense because your attention is probably best spent on writing about your preexisting creations more than on just making loads more that don't get developed.

Thoughts on Ages?

Also, I liked that Godspeed discouraged the hording of MP by making it to where you level up by using a certain amount of MP to actually create things, rather than saving up MP to buy the next level. However, the net effect of that was that there was that everybody was always more or less the same level unless they stalled and carried a lot of MP over turns or invested an extraordinary amount into holy sites (which had MP caps to reduce such a thing). So since everybody was always more or less the same level, what was the point of levels? They didn't act as a useful power comparison between gods since everyone was about the same level; I think the only answer for their usefulness was that they helped determine MP income for future turns and gave us thresholds for the points at which gods were permitted to get additional domains and portfolios.

None of that seems necessary; I'm considering the possibility of abolishing god levels altogether. Kill the useless numbers, y'know. Might generation would then be universally determined by the Age, and perhaps it could be further increased on an individual level by holy sites and/or grants from Mr. Architect (read: plot purposes).

Thoughts on levels and MP generation? [@everyone]

[Double Capybara]

Well, guess who has involuntarily brainstormed a new god while they should be sleeping so they woke up 11 AM?

Guess I will be participating of this game.

And about tech level. I kinda like the approach of Mutton, which is kinda similar to a civilization game, early game runs fast while late game runs slower. I don't think we should start in the bronze age as that is no fun, we definitely need the age of mythical creatures and megalith structures for a 'neolithic'.

I also don't think we should shy away from setting up the mood of the turn or epoch. Continent shaping and creating entire regions should be an early game thing, it should be easier to do that in the early game than in the late game. On stark contrast, maintaining a society would be exceptional, the stuff of legends, at first. Anything from Atlantis to Göbekli Tepe / Monte Verde is hard to maintain, if the god turns around there is a legit chance stuff will go up in flames... or sink... or, well, society is fickle, especially up to the bronze age, some small climate change literally erased Myceneans and Hittites from history, so early empires will need the blessings of gods, something like Egypt would need a whole friendly pantheon.

Perhaps something kinda like Greence's Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Heroic Age, Iron age? Not literally this, but a similar concept, setting up the mood of how God - Mortal interaction is to follow.

Players should be incentivized to be creative, if we make it hard to just saw "Uhh, I teach these pastoral dudes how to make steel swords" then we can have something like "I craft 10 steel swords for these dudes", which can help these dudes in battle, but can also fall into other's people hand, maybe in 200 hundred years some king can legitimize his rule by finding the "god iron" sword of Pastoral Dude the conqueror.

Also, kinda divide organization and tech so making a wide and tech advanced empire costs more than making a large tribe or an Atlantis like small island.

Furthermore, we should make it clear that nations are common grounds. Players should not be discouraged from starting cults within empires, deciding to bless the provincial ruler who has dreams of independence or even buffing a tribe living in the borders. This should help to avoid the continental empires we saw in Mk2...

And it kinda half-deals with the problem of isolation. I do like having the sense of 'distant lands' we had in MK2, and sincerely, some dude in Yorum shouldn't be worrying about what happens in Fibeslay, Vetros, Alefpria. But... it was just too much for everyone to focus on, and in the end each player just got their little nation and never interacted with others. How to deal with that?

- Political Organization and Technology are cheaper to create closer to already established lands.
- We are playing gods not nations, again, more than one god should get involved in the life of citizens of these lands. Furthermore, a land only blessed by one god, or that worships one god and persecutes follows of others should be harder to maintain by virtue of the fact they are pissing off the people who can send plages, floods, fire, giants, whatever their way.
- Create a hotspot(s) area(s) like China, the Mediterranean, Mesoamerica and kinda say to players "focus more on here than any other land, even if you helping out tribes in other lands is fine"

Edit:

Just read Cyclone's post.

Seems like me and him agree on ages, lol.

I am also kinda okay with not having levels, even in MK2 they are kinda meaningless, Ilunabar and Xos are both level 9 gods, but obviously very different in terms of power.

Furthermore, it alienates new players, who already have quite a hard time getting up to date with everything that is happening.

[Cyclone]

Well, guess who has involuntarily brainstormed a new god while they should be sleeping so they woke up 11 AM?

Guess I will be participating of this game.

@Double Capybara

Also, did I ninja you? Well, in either case, I take it that you're essentially in favor of the Ages.

Also, kinda divide organization and tech so making a wide and tech advanced empire costs more than making a large tribe or an Atlantis like small island.

Well, ideally we wouldn't just airdrop nations and tech down onto the planet even with the use of a pile of MP. I think it'd be a lot more fulfilling if the creation of some kingdom/foundation of Atlantis/development of metalworking was a slow thing that spanned at least a few posts, and preferably involved more than one god.

- Political Organization and Technology are cheaper to create closer to already established lands.
- We are playing gods not nations, again, more than one god should get involved in the life of citizens of these lands. Furthermore, a land only blessed by one god, or that worships one god and persecutes follows of others should be harder to maintain by virtue of the fact they are pissing off the people who can send plages, floods, fire, giants, whatever their way.
- Create a hotspot(s) area(s) like China, the Mediterranean, Mesoamerica and kinda say to players "focus more on here than any other land, even if you helping out tribes in other lands is fine"

I agree entirely with point 1 and quite like the idea of point 3. I more or less agree with you on point 2 as well, with the caveat that if someone really wants to have a somewhat insular civilization they could accomplish it by having some people dwelling within their god's Sphere. Even then, by design the Spheres aren't nearly as inaccessible as our current notion of private planes, so we'll hopefully avoid the creation of something quite as insular as Arcon.