[OOC] The World of War: Central Hub/Main Thread/Chen's Tavern

[Everett]

@MelonHead

Faster than the human eye? That's way under a few thousand miles per hour. Sub-Sonic speeds are slower than 700 miles per hour, which is far away from a few thousand. If anything Blythe would be moving at a few hundred in short bursts. If you were standing still, looking across a street, you'd barely see a red sports car pass by at 100 mph. Negatmosk's character is definitely sub-sonic.

It also doesn't mean that the character would be able to punch with the force of a nuke. The Little Boy that was dropped in WW2 had a yield between 13 to 18 kilotons of TNT. Considering the speed we're talking? You're exaggerating by a lot dude. Chill.

[MelonHead]

@MelonHead

Faster than the human eye? That's way under a few thousand miles per hour. Sub-Sonic speeds are slower than 700 miles per hour, which is far away from a few thousand. If anything Blythe would be moving at a few hundred in short bursts. If you were standing still, looking across a street, you'd barely see a red sports car pass by at 100 mph. Negatmosk's character is definitely sub-sonic.

It also doesn't mean that the character would be able to punch with the force of a nuke. The Little Boy that was dropped in WW2 had a yield between 13 to 18 kilotons of TNT. Considering the speed we're talking? You're exaggerating by a lot dude. Chill.

@Everett

Actually I underestimated how fast you would have to move to be invisible to the human eye, which is what the ability suggests. It's actually very ambiguous, you'd be better off just saying how fast you were going.

Read it and weep, matey.

Don't assume I make baseless claims, I always research these things first out of interest.

The nuke comment was a joke though, punching power is pretty difficult to calculate mathematically. Then again, looking at the sort of speeds necessary to become invisible to the human eye, maybe I was right, who knows. I'm not a physicist, i'm a goddamn historian

[LeeRoy]

@Enki
Well the problem is, I thought you were asking about your first sheet. Which I greenlighted.

Though I did make it abundantly clear during the Xenom thing a couple months back.

I don't support blind roleplaying. If your sheet isn't clear and concise about your characters abilities, I cannot and will not accept it. This was going to be a rule, but I thought I wouldn't have to deal with it.

It makes judgement literally impossible, which makes my job literally impossible.

@Divinity

I was joking about the enforcer thing.

Dunnaman was a power vacuum when he was sucked back into reality by @Rilla's space train. This power vacuum lead to him becoming an actual vacuum for a time, sucking the energy out of matter and growing in size. Both fatter and taller. It wasn't until he stumbled upon Dorirum, an unnatural crystal that grows in my mythos. It serves as an energy conduit, when he touched it, it released some of his latent stored energy.

Well, long story short in the two years of life that he remembers, Dunnaman has gotten back in shape and has learned how to energize and deenergize inorganic matter.

[Negatomsk]

@MelonHead Fine, whatever, she's overpowered, how about we quit arguing about this since you supposedly don't care?

[Enki]

@LeeRoy.
You greenlighted divs Corban sooo....I don't see a problem here?

[MelonHead]

@MelonHead Fine, whatever, she's overpowered, how about we quit arguing about this since you supposedly don't care?

@Negatomsk

I said I don't care that she is overpowered (it's not like I'm forced to fight it), I didn't say I wasn't going to defend my claim that she's overpowered.

For the record, the reason why I care is because I've seen four (maybe five, can't remember) of these Multiverse re-iterations fail, and it's almost always down to the same reason. One person enters a high tier character, and it causes some kind of ridiculous arms race where everyone then follows suit. High tier characters then saturate the world, and high tiers suck for RPing, and all the lower tier players wonder what the point is when high tiers are everywhere and can do four or five times what they can with a wave of their hand, then everyone loses interest, arguments break out over OP characters, GG.

That's been the formula for the last four Multiverses, so I had this crazy idea, what if people refrain from entering the most powerful characters possible from the outset, and make characters that fit the context of the wider player base? Wouldn't that be great.

Unfortunately, I don't hold out much hope, but you never know.

[LeeRoy]

@Enki
There's a difference between Vague descriptions of manipulation of basic magics to vague descriptions of physiological and psychological ability.

Vague descriptions generally spells out a broad coverage of that form of magic. Since most folks understand that form of magic, we get the concept. We can trust that they won't do anything outside of the boundaries of that magic because we all KNOW the boundaries.

See?

But the problem is. With just one ability, we get one big problem. Let's take a look:
-----Enhanced senses- It could be said that due to this new spiritual awakening a new sense of awareness was born. Exact details are unknown at this time.

This could literally mean anywhere from seeing at 2x human reaction speed to literal precognition. You quite literally gave no details. In fact you mentioned that you're not giving details.

See the problem here?

[ImportantNobody]

The entire point of a sheet is to give a idea what a character can do not spell out every single little thing. That leads to metagaming. If two guys just meet they shouldn't know every inch of their repertoire unless they are familer with each other.

@Enki

Both of you are right. Both can lead to metagaming. We have to trust you that you aren't metagaming with vagueness and pulling out new interpretations of what is written to better match your opponent and the attacks they are sending at you. Being vague is better for metagaming of the person doing the sheet while being concise is better for metagaming for the opponent. This is an unavoidable problem without trust on both sides.

[Divinity]

<Snipped quote by Enki>

Both of you are right. Both can lead to metagaming. We have to trust you that you aren't metagaming with vagueness and pulling out new interpretations of what is written to better match your opponent and the attacks they are sending at you. Being vague is better for metagaming of the person doing the sheet while being concise is better for metagaming for the opponent. This is an unavoidable problem without trust on both sides.

@ImportantNobody

This.

Corban is vague because a lot of his abilities stem from d&d source magic. A readily available, and easy to locate wellspring of information that is pretty popular among most rp communities. Corban is a mage, and by definition mages utilize principals and components of spells and mix and match then on demand, as opposed to the Wizards Spellbook. The very differences between the terms 'sorcerer', 'Wizard', and 'mage' has a comprehensive article that covers the differences and origins. I'll probably link it sometime for future reference. This is just to say there is a reason deeper than 'I wanna metagame people to death' that Corban's skillset is structured the way it is.

It still requires trust that I won't abuse it, but I think that's kind of fundamental to the nature of the game we play.

[Enki]

<Snipped quote by Negatomsk>

I said I don't care that she is overpowered (it's not like I'm forced to fight it), I didn't say I wasn't going to defend my claim that she's overpowered.

For the record, the reason why I care is because I've seen four (maybe five, can't remember) of these Multiverse re-iterations fail, and it's almost always down to the same reason. One person enters a high tier character, and it causes some kind of ridiculous arms race where everyone then follows suit. High tier characters then saturate the world, and high tiers suck for RPing, and all the lower tier players wonder what the point is when high tiers are everywhere and can do four or five times what they can with a wave of their hand, then everyone loses interest, arguments break out over OP characters, GG.

That's been the formula for the last four Multiverses, so I had this crazy idea, what if people refrain from entering the most powerful characters possible from the outset, and make characters that fit the context of the wider player base? Wouldn't that be great.

Unfortunately, I don't hold out much hope, but you never know.

@MelonHead

This actually makes sense. None of us were gonna put in these characters till Corban got accepted. That's the fact and truth of it. I was fine with Jen until I seen that, and then the others wanted to join in the OP sheninagins.

[MelonHead]

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

This actually makes sense. None of us were gonna put in these characters till Corban got accepted. That's the fact and truth of it. I was fine with Jen until I seen that, and then the others wanted to join in the OP sheninagins.

@Enki

I understand that, but two wrongs don't make a right in this situation. I mean, if you specifically wanted to go after Corban, fair enough, but saturating the RP with too many powerful characters isn't going to help, we're barely getting anywhere as-is.

Plus, I reacted to Corban being entered from the outset in the exact same way as Blythe, if you remember. I'd have preferred it if no high tiers were entered this early tbh, not banned entirely, but brought in when the story actually needs them.

[Enki]

@Enki
There's a difference between Vague descriptions of manipulation of basic magics to vague descriptions of physiological and psychological ability.

Vague descriptions generally spells out a broad coverage of that form of magic. Since most folks understand that form of magic, we get the concept. We can trust that they won't do anything outside of the boundaries of that magic because we all KNOW the boundaries.

See?

But the problem is. With just one ability, we get one big problem. Let's take a look:
-----Enhanced senses- It could be said that due to this new spiritual awakening a new sense of awareness was born. Exact details are unknown at this time.

This could literally mean anywhere from seeing at 2x human reaction speed to literal precognition. You quite literally gave no details. In fact you mentioned that you're not giving details.

See the problem here?

@LeeRoy

It was probably a throwback to old days when everyone was trying to trick peoples senses. Also that never works anyway.

Also sensing the future is silly. It also never works because the other guy can just switch what's he's doing and then it just gets tossed into a loop.

It's basically saying his senses are tied to his soul. So he can see the world around him through it, I understand it might be a weird concept here.

But I still stand by the fact nothing is wrong with any of these sheets if you let Corbin in.

You have the right to disagree but that doesn't change the feeling of a chunk of the people in here

[Divinity]

@Enki
I don't find "But Corban is here!" to be a proper defense for bringing in the biggest guns possible. Corban isn't going to target anyone who is doing anything short of assaulting him. If you wanted to bring in your big guns on your own time, then fine. But saying you brought it just because Corban is here doesn't make much sense, considering you don't have to fight him, or anyone you don't want to for that matter.

[Negatomsk]

@Divinity
The argument isn't 'but Corban is here so we brought our big guns', the argument is 'Corban was allowed in, so why are you blocking characters who are of a similar strength'.

[MelonHead]

@Divinity
The argument isn't 'but Corban is here so we brought our big guns', the argument is 'Corban was allowed in, so why are you blocking characters who are of a similar strength'.

@Negatomsk

1. That's simply not true, Enki admitted like three posts back that he changed his original submission and entered Alex because of Corban, he even said so at the time and I tried to convince him not to, for the reasons Divinity just mentioned actually, that Corban doesn't really have an offensive personality, so you have to be actively wanting to fight him to get in a fight with him anyway.

Here's the quote, if you somehow missed it despite it being literally a few posts above your own on this very page.

This actually makes sense. None of us were gonna put in these characters till Corban got accepted.

@Enki

2. LeeRoy has already explained that the difference between Corban's OP-ness and Alex's is completely different, and he's already explained what his issues are with Blythe. Both are fairly similar, they have abilities that are either redacted so there is no real indication of their scope, or just so vague that they could mean potentially anything. I think when he gets to looking at Blythe properly he'll probably accept it, but Alex as is barely registers as an Arena character. His abilities (as they are worded) leave so much up in the air he could be god tier for all we know.

In fact, LeeRoy spelled out exactly what was missing from Blythe's sheet, and you basically ignored half of what he said. He wanted hard-limits on your character's endurance, regeneration and tankiness, so he has some idea of what can actually defeat her. You just told him she's always as strong or stronger than an opponent and did nothing to answer his other queries.

[Divinity]

Plus, I reacted to Corban being entered from the outset in the exact same way as Blythe, if you remember. I'd have preferred it if no high tiers were entered this early tbh, not banned entirely, but brought in when the story actually needs them.

@MelonHead

It is for this reason I haven't posted but remain in the OOC. Corban is on standby until a genius earth mage is needed in the plot! I'll probably do small posts with small talk and character ineractiom building though. Corban has had a lot of history with various Shin-Ra characters in the past, for example(mostly violent), so I'd like to see how a conversation between them considering their rocky history would go down.

[Starfall]

@Divinity

These characters wouldn't necessarily be anywhere close to our biggest guns. Enki felt he needed Alex to be competitive with Corban due to his familiarity with the character and more to the point his unfamiliarity with Jen, who to my knowledge has only been in one roleplay and has a skill set that he's only experimented with in the past. But given everything I've heard of room for growth.

Blythe is just someone Nega enjoys using and Xiomara is a new spin on an old archetype for me.

As far as Shin-Ra goes, the timeline has advanced a great deal from where it was in the game and that after the plot split off into its own entity with the original Shin-Ra. Alex would actually be your best bet for Corban to discuss the old way while Satori, Blythe, and everyone else in the group are unlikely to even know who Sephiroth was and have only heard of Jenova in history books. You might get the stink eye for the no contest that was your encounter with Meteor though.

[Negatomsk]

@MelonHead In fact, LeeRoy spelled out exactly what was missing from Blythe's sheet, and you basically ignored half of what he said. He wanted hard-limits on your character's endurance, regeneration and tankiness, so he has some idea of what can actually defeat her. You just told him she's always as strong or stronger than an opponent and did nothing to answer his other queries.

@Negatomsk

Could you give me a range where she'll be fighting at? Since we can't have someone who's capable of erasing universes with a flex of her left bicep roaming around.

@LeeRoy

LeeRoy's exact words, right there.

He asked for a range she would be fighting at, and if you'd bothered to read my answer, you'd see that I already answered for the only stat that I felt I needed to, her strength, seeing as her baseline durability is spelled out in her profile where it says the Outrage avatar is capable of surviving multiple tonnages of force on impact, explosions, sustained heavy arms fire and falls from great heights with only minimal to moderate harm to her person.

I also made it clear that Blythe can only ever match her opponent's strength in combat, and for her to surpass the amount of force she is measured against would require a lengthy exposure to that force, coupled with an extended period of exercise necessary to surpass it. That means for as big and scary as Blythe is, in a close-quarters slugfest based on pure strength, with no other factors involved, the best that Blythe can hope for is a draw, which is why Enki and I stated that it's as simple as not getting into a slugfest with her.

I'm kind of surprised that with all the research you put into this argument you don't care about that you neglected to look up the shortcomings of shear-thickening fluids for some rather hilariously mundane methods with which to handle Blythe's infinitely powerful armor.

[MelonHead]

Actually you've just snipped his words right there.

'Well I can't say I hate the sheet, in fact I quite like it, but you are terribly vague with the limits of her ability. As it stands, she's infinitely strong and infinitely fast with infinite regenerative ability and infinite endurance. It seems that her only weakness is the inevitable heat death of the universe, and even that would be a slow process.'

I don't really need to interpret LeeRoy for you though, evidently you've provided sufficient data for him and your character is now accepted
oh wait

Evidently LeeRoy felt your description of these traits was insufficient to discern her abilities. I'm not interested in your characters hyper specific weaknesses, to (badly) quote someone here 'you can have a list of weaknesses a mile long, but if you can blister the skin from someone's body from a mile away, it doesn't matter.'

Look, I'm just trying to help things along as LeeRoy doesn't have enough time to look through sheets. Ignore me if you want, but don't then complain about your sheet not being accepted.

[MelonHead]

I'll tell you what, I'll just do a quick tear apart break down of your sheet where I highly suspect the issues lie.