"I have never advocated war except as means of peace, so seek peace, but prepare for war. Because war... War never changes. War is like winter and winter is coming." ~ Ulysses Grant
Welcome, arena-goers! This is an old new game called When Nations Collide. Basically it's a wargame RP where two players and their chosen nations duke it out. As such the conditions are quite different from the usual arena match. Few people may remember my previous attempt at this game. And while that one didn't work out due to both of our busy schedules the idea remained. So without much further ado allow me to introduce our combatants
The Kingdom of Stoludi (Inkdrop)
An isolated backwards but very spirited country founded in the distant seas. In the era of muskets they are renown for their ferocity in melee. Link:roleplayerguild.com/posts/2908750
VERSUS
Dwarven City States of Zwölfberge (Willy Vereb)
A lone island of the dwarves. In the age of gods and magic they turned for technology and their accomplishments gave them fame. Link:roleplayerguild.com/posts/2659295
Backstory
The dwarves of Zwölfberge long laid claim on bountiful island of Geitumo, presently property of the Stoludi Kingdom. It used to be the land of their ancestors yet such flimsy reason from a small nation never reaches the ears of the Stoludi Court. Yet for dwarves respect for their ancestors was a rule above all reason and they secretly plotted for decades. In the King's Year of 1722 Stoudi engaged in war with the continental major power of the Melnisc Empire. Yet in the moment they turned their backs Zwölfberge stood ready to strike! Intent on retaking their ancestral lands they launched a huge fleet of steel-gray ships loaded with angry dwarves. Halfway on route Zwölfberge finally declared war on Stoudi and the Crown was forced to fight on two fronts. The Melnisc Empire was powerful yet mostly landlocked. As such Stoudi could spare a sizeable portion of their fleet to reinforce the island.
Conditions
The details of this game have yet to be fixed down. Since I wish to treat this as a prototype match there's no need for judges and the size of the respective forces and other details will be discussed here in the OOC.
@Inkdrop Alright, so a bit more about the dwarves. Special focus for combating Zwölfberg compared to a regular faction.
Dwarves are about 4-5 feet tall at best but sport a robust build with decent durability and muscles about twice as strong as a human (though their reduced reach kind of evens things out). Dwarves as warriors are tough and renown for their explosive strength. On the other hand they are small and while the frequency of their steps is greater they are of course slower at the run.
Because they are smaller yet can carry the same if not greater weight dwarwes much more frequently wear armor. Actually that's part of their culture which also gave them the nickname "steelskins". Actual shocktroops often equip themselves with plate armors and shields which are borderline ridiculous and would be wholly impractical to humans. Their defense can be seen as a wall of steel which your forces may often struggle to penetrate unless you use the adequate strategy. On the other hand Zwölfberge has only minimal experience at mounted warfare at best and aside from mini halberds they use to compensate for reach they don't have anything resembling a pike formation. That being said running into these heavily armored shocktroops is often a hazard in itself so cavalry charges are still not the most optimal.
Zwölfberge's main ranged weapon is the bolter which can be viewed as an evolution of the crossbow. It uses spring-mechanism to launch the drawn back projectile and they unite the benefits of crossbows with often the speed of archery. Light bolters are often built on pump-action design and fire small diamond shaped "bolts" in rapid succession. Their armor penetration is minimal but their compactness and rate of fire makes them preferred for self-defense. A more standard bolter design uses a heavy 80-gram bolt and a powerful draw which requires the operator's full strength. These can penetrate plate armor pretty well and with some skill can be aimed for 80-120 meters. The latest category of bolters are huge, often longer than the operator himself. They use cranks and other mechanisms to draw but in return you get a massively powerful and long ranged weapon, think of a "portable" Roman scorpio firing compact all-steel projectiles. The latter is rare and used by dwarves colloquially referred as Snipers. They are a half-crazed lot obsessed with the performance of their bolter who got their name for often competing to hunt down the otherwise rather elusive snipe bird.
Siege engines of various kinds are widespread and kinda like Zwölfberge's equivalent of the artillery. They are less convenient than cannons but bolter-ballista hybrids can achieve anti-infantry performance similar to iron shots (cannister/grape shots or chain shots are a different matter, ofc). Aside from more frequent use of metal and spring-based mechanisms and further refined looks the dwarven siege engines are going after the same catapult/ballista designs. One thing which still worths noting is that Zwölfberge knows something similar to Greek Fire thus incendiary projectiles won't be unheard of.
Lastly the ships. Schwarzesmeer is apparently have only minimal winds which are not so predictable around the island. Thanks to this and other considerations the dwarves developed ships propelled by augers AKA the "Archimedes Screw". These are driven either by rows of dwarven pedalers or large animals within treadwheels. In terms of speed they average between 4-10 knots depending on design and whether they are cruising or on the sprint. What makes dwarven ships distinct are their metallic bolted on hulls. Due to the abundance of iron as well as dwarven industry they can allow themselves to build entire ships made of stainless steel. While I say that though these ships are rather small, only 30-50 meters long. The steel hull protects against fire and may rebound lighter cannonballs at range but otherwise there's little difference aside from intimidation factor. As for weapons dwarven warships often mount one or a few siege weapons either for attacking forts or engaging ships at distance. Still, not a literal rows of cannons construction as age of sail ships. Other methods include using skirmishers to fire at the enemy with their bolters or board the enemy. Rams are also semi-frequently featured on the hulls in order to pierce the enemy hull while also preventing their escape. In short they are okay in a fight but the main role of warships is to transport hundreds of troops each into battle.
@Inkdrop BTW, any idea for the story why our nations would be at war? I am fine with being both the attacker or defender. Though given the massive difference in manpower I would suggest this war being a relatively small one to you so I won't face literally tens of times more soldiers than what I have. Depending on who is the attacker it'd likely also decide the battlefield. So yeah, let's share our thoughts on the matter.
@Willy VerebMy nation did have control of a remote chain of isles and islands far away from the mainland. If the dwarves were attacking those for some reason, then you would only face the forces I'd be able to send by ship. That would also force naval engagements since there is no land connection to those islands and isles.
@Willy VerebAnd I will type in some more info about the Stoludians, and why your older tech might not be so bad after all.
The Army
The Regular Force
The Regular Force is the standard infantry unit of the Stoludian Military. Made up of about 250,000 enlistees, these men and women are a fairly well-trained, devoted, poorly-armed force. They use smoothbore muskets with a dog-lock firing mechanism and small steel daggers as their melee weapons. They are required to serve for ten years, more if they want. Leaving the Force without pardon or dismissal is punishable by a year in a royal dungeon or aboard a prison ship.
This is the oldest normal army in Stoludian history. They have been around since the Solidification Era, and even still existed during the dark days of King Tinnham. They were the main reason why Tinnham fell... because the Force turned on him, and left him without most of his force.
The Regular Force has a decent sized artillery unit of smoothbore, muzzle-loading cannon, and some mortars.
Children of the Righteous Thunder
These are men and women picked from the other parts of the Army, for good reason. The Children are the surgical tools of Stoludi, able to perform many dark tasks without regret, remorse, or pain. They are expert assassins, spies, saboteurs, and survivalists.
Every soldier in the rest of the military is watched after they first join. Most, however, are ignored after a while. Some are noticed. Those are narrowed down even further, and then, after a few years, the special ones vanish in the middle of the night. After a brutal training course over many months that has been rumored to kill some recruits, they become the dirty tools the Stoludian Queen needs.
If a person needs to die, a Child of the Thunder will escort them into the Beyond. If something needs to be destroyed, the Thunder will strike. If a ship needs to be sunk, a child of the Thunder will smite her. These people are nearly nonhuman. In fact... many say that they never die. They just transcend this world.
They use whatever equipment is necessary. Guns, knives, clubs, swords, explosives, poisons... nothing is off the table for these fellows. Their exact number is not known but no more than 600 exist.
Her Majesty's Guardians
An elite strike force. These are the top graduates of the standard program in the Regular Force. They are less numerous at about 80,000 soldiers, but they are better armed, armored, and trained than the Regular Force. This part of the Army is the nutcracker of the Queen. They are equipped with snaphance carbines, wheellock pistols, and long, sharp bayonets. The Guardians wear suits of light armor, with various carvings and decorations to make the soldiers look like predators and hunters.
The Guardians came about after the end of King Tinnham. It was decided that Stoludi needed a special force that was loyal to the grave, and one that could ensure the rightful heir to the kingdom would be put into power.
They swear an oath of loyalty to the Queen, and desertion is punishable by banishment or even execution.
The Tribals
The Tribals are, in fact, not tribesmen at all. They are actually cavalrymen that ride fast, lean horses and carry belts of wheellock or snaphaunce pistols, along with spears or rapiers. The Tribals are named as such because of their whooping war cry and savage behavior, where they will indiscriminately raze an enemy army to the ground.
The Tribals are farmers, bandits, traders, anyone skilled in riding a horse and willing to douse their thin, multicolored uniforms in blood. They have been around even before Solidification, and the unit might have been the unit that brought the Tribes together.
The Navy
While the Stoludian Navy is not the best in the world, it's sailors are exceptionally skilled and extremely devoted. However, Stoludian shipbuilding is unorthodox. For the most part, the Stoludian Navy has no huge capital ships. Most of their fleet are made of fast Sloops-of-War and caravels, with quick-firing cannons and tactics meant for speed and precision. Their largest ships might be considered corvettes in other navies. All of their ships have triangular lateen sails, with black dolphins painted on their sails.
The Stoludian Regulars are the ones most likely to see combat in any war, and while they are a proud force, they lack significant armor and the Stoludian people tend to be somewhat smaller than average for your normal human. As well, due to Stoludi's sluggishness to industrialize, equipment can be of varying quality. The Stoludian Regulars carry smoothbore dog-lock long guns, which is all well and good, but the quality of the powder and the weapon itself can be iffy at best. Some weapons will fire spot-on, and others will simply never hit a thing. They use the normal tactics of volley fire, advancing in lines and firing on command to try and counter-act the horrific accuracy problems presented by the outdated weapons tech they possess. They never charge unless circumstances are dire. Their steel daggers are to be used for defence only, if a charge meets the volley line. Their artillery is not much better, with old-fashioned, muzzle-loading iron ball cannons being the norm, and not in large numbers at all. The cannons are typically small caliber, and not fast to reload. Stoludi has yet to adopt a true sniper force in its regular members.
The Queen's Guardians are much better trained and equipped, but unless there is a major threat to the Kingdom itself that is considered to be an immediate emergency, they will never be sent far from the capital. Their armor is not just for aesthetics, but it is doubted that it can take a sustained battering. Their weapons are of finer quality and their powder is as well, but they carry carbines more often than true long-guns, and as such they do best at medium to close quarters, where they can also make use of bayonets. These soldiers, when they are seen on a battlefield, will often form an old-fashioned shield wall with their carbines resting in special indents on the top of the shield. These shields can be dug into the ground and essentially turn a team of Guardians into a mobile bunker. Their fire rate is still slow, however, and often they will use ranked fire with kneeling, standing, and even sitting troops. Again, while better trained, they are far less numerous, and far less likely to be seen on the field. They do not usually work with artillery support, and when they do, it is with the Regulars' artillery.
The Tribals lack organization and they do not have a shred of armor. Some Tribals will ride into battle almost totally nude with a spittle-laced cry, firing their bandoliers of pistols in all directions. They work well as a psychological shock weapon and can break a weakened line of enemies, but they do not do well in a situation that requires teamwork, and they are very vulnerable to being wounded. Once they are out of ammo in anywhere from four to nine pistols, they usually do not take the time to reload everyone, and instead, go to their swords or maces. They ride the stocky horses that Stoludians favor, but again, there is not a lick of armor in sight for their steeds. Their idea of artillery is horse-mounted longbowmen, who are skilled at their craft, but use outdated weapons.
The Children of the Righteous Thunder are never going to be seen in regular combat. They often lurk in the shadows performing espionage, sabotage, and assassinations, although they have been known to engage in guerilla warfare from time to time. From rocks to black powder, it seems nothing is out of the question for the Children to use. What use they will be, is up to the Queen.
The Stoludian Navy consists mostly of smaller vessels that are built to be light and fast but utilize their speed as their armor. They rely entirely on sail power, as steam engines have not yet been thoroughly researched in Stoludi. Their naval vessels are well-manned, but again are fragile, and have weak armament that is best at sustained fire rather than delivering a massive punch in one go.
@Inkdrop Alright, let's go with this, then: Geitumo was used to be dwarven territory a few hundred years before and dwarves of Zwölfberg recently came to claim it back. Zwölfberg is a tiny island nation and Geitumo had strategic importance thus you generally ignored them. This went on for decades but when you engaged in war with the main continent (make up whatever name you want for that faction) the dwarves also declared war on you. They launched a fleet of about a hundred ships carrying over 10,000 dwarven warriors. Their aim is to retake Geitumo for their clans and do it while the majority of your military is occupied with another nation. Thankfully the other enemy is largely landlocked thus your navies are relatively free for the job. You still have some numerical advantage and the knowledge of gunpowder on your side but the dwarves are fully clad in steel and all fired up to retake the land of their ancestors.
How does this sound? BTW, you can begin working on your army profile and post it in the Characters section. I think 30-40k soldiers at best sound fine. It really depends on exactly how many of them you think is a proper match for 10k angry dwarves.
That sounds pretty good to me, considering it takes care of a lot of problems, such as numerical superiority, as well as taking care of the Queen's Guardians because they will clearly be left behind to protect the capital in case the worst happens. I will work on an army here soon, more of an amphibious landing force because they have to cross a channel from the mainland. The garrison of Frystobiang might be involved as well but they will be isolated and are already semi-autonomous because of their distance from the mainland.
@InkdropCan you also make a rough map of the area and detail the fortifications you use there? It'd be rather helpful when we detail our troop movements.
@Willy VerebIt will be a very rough sketch, just a warning. I can provide a detailed word description and a rough map of where these areas are but it won't be anything fancy.
@InkdropThat would be quite sufficient. I only wish to get a clutch for writing out the scenes better. I don't wish to force you to draw a masterful work of cartography. BTW, how do you like the filler story which explains our war? You can give a different name for the hostile country if you want.
@InkdropHopefully the date is about right, too. I tried 18th century but not too far ahead. Flintlock muskets without any rifles involved would imply an earlier date but the uniforms are definitely 18th century or even post-Napoleonic era.
@Willy VerebThe Stoludians do use firing mechanisms that actually predate the flintlock by a few decades. They are behind in technology so the date is okay but they are not quite to flintlocks yet.
@Willy VerebThe Stoludians do use firing mechanisms that actually predate the flintlock by a few decades. They are behind in technology so the date is okay but they are not quite to flintlocks yet.
Doglocks and snaphauces in the broader sense are both flintlocks, just a bit more complicated. Actually the snaphauce is known for being more reliable...just also more expensive to make. Flintlock is a simplified thus cheaper and mechanically more reliable system (though poorer designs suffered from lack of snap power thus the above problem with realibility). That's how I remember, IIRC. But yeah, both of those seemingly disappeared by the early 18th century to be replaced by the Flintlock. Though not entirely.
@Willy VerebEither way, Stoludi does not have the industrial strength or quality of any industrialized nation, since most things are still made on small scales by artisans. Sorry for my inactivity, my post will be going up soon.
@Willy VerebEither way, Stoludi does not have the industrial strength or quality of any industrialized nation, since most things are still made on small scales by artisans. Sorry for my inactivity, my post will be going up soon.
Strangely enough the situation with Zwölfberge is the opposite. Due to being a fantasy faction and one stereotypically awesome for their smithery the dwarven industry is about comparable to mid 19th century Europe even if the size of their nation limits the quantity. Meanwhile technology in general is in the 15th century or so with some clockpunk or fantastic elements.
Anyways, I did some calculations on the ships. Dolchshraubers are roughly the size of a sailless Trireme (36m long, 6m wide) with the displacement around 120 tons. They generally have ~30-50mm wrought iron armor with some wooden backing to prevent shrapnels. It's enough to stop 12-pounders or 24-pounders at range but not at point blank (albeit the front of the ships are further reinforced). Turmschraubers are 45m long and 7.5m wide with the weight around 450 tons. Their armor is 50-75mm wrought iron with wooden backing which is enough to stop 24-pounders thus requiring heavier ordinance. So they would be tough, albeit perhaps somewhat lacking in firepower. As you can read in the character page the typical ship has 1 ballista while the Turmschraubers which are like flagships have 3.
@Willy VerebThe Stoludian Navy mostly consists of sloops and other small wooden unrated vessels, like brigs and corvettes, so they are very suscptible to damage if they are hit. The wood is thick, but it is still just wood. Stoludian tactics is to keep moving and go as fast as possible, but they do rely solely on wind power, save for the longboats Geitumo and Frystobiang use for inter-island transport.
@Willy VerebThe Stoludian Navy mostly consists of sloops and other small wooden unrated vessels, like brigs and corvettes, so they are very suscptible to damage if they are hit. The wood is thick, but it is still just wood. Stoludian tactics is to keep moving and go as fast as possible, but they do rely solely on wind power, save for the longboats Geitumo and Frystobiang use for inter-island transport.
Well, brig-sloops are in the 250-480 tonnage range so your ships would be actually bigger than most of mine. Cannon-wise you'd be most likely sporting 10-18 carronades in the 18 to 32 pounder variety. You'd also have the numerical advantage because while I barely have more than 100 ships you should be able to afford close to a thousand (especially if you don't have much if any ships of the line). Well, corvettes are of course smaller (usually in the 18-20m length range with 4-8 lower caliber cannons) but their firepower is still superior to my single-ballista warships (though those might pack more punch, especially with incendiary shots).
Then again naval battle should be just the beginning. The main show should be land battle so perhaps your ships failing to stop the dwarven advance is the best for the plot. Doesn't mean you'd be steamrolled, though. It'd be rather far from it.
@Willy VerebSince Geitumo is so far from the rest of the mainland I'd imagine that there would not be a lot of naval power in the area. The longboats used for inter-island transport are equipped with only a couple of cannon and are otherwise only protected by small arms and mainly use rams for offense. Maybe there would be a few ships in the area from scattered piracy patrols or privateering operations but, for the most part, I doubt there would be a huge naval force awaiting the dwarves at first. Maybe later they would be surrounded by a larger force, as the continental war that is keeping most of Stoludi busy will not involve many of its blue water forces.
@Willy VerebSince Geitumo is so far from the rest of the mainland I'd imagine that there would not be a lot of naval power in the area. The longboats used for inter-island transport are equipped with only a couple of cannon and are otherwise only protected by small arms and mainly use rams for offense. Maybe there would be a few ships in the area from scattered piracy patrols or privateering operations but, for the most part, I doubt there would be a huge naval force awaiting the dwarves at first. Maybe later they would be surrounded by a larger force, as the continental war that is keeping most of Stoludi busy will not involve many of its blue water forces.
I am fine with that. So aside from the forts and few gunboats Zwölfberge would land unopposed and then the naval battle at large will play out concurrently with the land battle or siege, right? That sounds like the ideal scenario to get the most enjoyment out of this.
