Aye, merry Christmas, folks. Just don't forget to fear the old blood in between your bouts of merriment.
Ashgan
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All right, let's go with that. If/when that has any bearing on my character, just let me know :3
I'm also convinced that the tale isn't as simple as the church wants to spin it, and your take makes a lot of sense. That said, I'd stay skeptical towards either faction; depraved nobility getting up to weird stuff is not a rarity even in the real world, much less one as dark and nihilistic as Bloodborne's. While we don't have any proof that the Vilebloods were up to anything terribly nefarious, we do know that they have bizarre gargoyle monsters at their command and that Annalise is well and truly immortal for reasons beyond our ken. I'm going to assume that she is either not human or that she did something pretty awful to become immortal. I also wonder about her mask; what does it hide? Who put it on her? Is she unwilling to take it off, or unable? I forget if she comments on it, but not that much I think.
I'm also convinced that the tale isn't as simple as the church wants to spin it, and your take makes a lot of sense. That said, I'd stay skeptical towards either faction; depraved nobility getting up to weird stuff is not a rarity even in the real world, much less one as dark and nihilistic as Bloodborne's. While we don't have any proof that the Vilebloods were up to anything terribly nefarious, we do know that they have bizarre gargoyle monsters at their command and that Annalise is well and truly immortal for reasons beyond our ken. I'm going to assume that she is either not human or that she did something pretty awful to become immortal. I also wonder about her mask; what does it hide? Who put it on her? Is she unwilling to take it off, or unable? I forget if she comments on it, but not that much I think.
Interesting interpretation; that it was the lack of betrothal that led to their failed children. Personally, I feel like it boils down to the (for some reason) immutable law that "every Great One loses its child", and so whether or not the woman is somehow bonded to the Great One probably has no impact. But it is fun to think about nonetheless.
Also, you're absolutely right about the naming scheme. Furthermore, as you may or may not have noticed, both of the blood saints start with "Adel" (Adella and Adeline). Adel is German for nobility; whether or not this has any bearing, I don't know, but I kept the trend up by naming my saint Adelicia; felt like it kept the spirit of the creator alive, even if his intent is unknown to me.
You make a good point with the player knowing that marriage is a thing, regardless of their and Annalise's specifics, but that might still lead to a clash of cultures so to speak. It's quite possible that marriage as we know it exists in myriad places in BB's world, but has different meanings in different places. For all we know, mundane marriages may exist all over the place, while still being a somewhat esoteric and occult practice in Yharnam, and the player simply doesn't know any better. Or chooses to defy expectations on purpose. Maybe it's an act of willfulness to propose to a queen. Or maybe it's a symbolic act meant to cement your submission to her, more a bond of servitude than romance. I dunno. :P (And while on the subject, I feel it's a shame we won't get to know more about her; I find Annalise to be a very interesting character, and by extension the whole Vileblood thing. After a Blood Saint, one of their ilk would probably have been my choice of character. Maybe I'll write one sometime down the line. I have some ideas already.)
Nice find on the comic; I hadn't read any of them, I admit. Not sure what to make of that though. Since Miyazaki wasn't the writer, we can't be sure that the writer wasn't just making assumptions about how marriage works without consulting the original creator. It's also possible that it was simply an approximate translation (the comic is Jap in origin, or?). And of course it's really up to anyone whether or not they want to consider it canon material in the first place.
...Man we went on a huge tangent about marriage huh?
Also, you're absolutely right about the naming scheme. Furthermore, as you may or may not have noticed, both of the blood saints start with "Adel" (Adella and Adeline). Adel is German for nobility; whether or not this has any bearing, I don't know, but I kept the trend up by naming my saint Adelicia; felt like it kept the spirit of the creator alive, even if his intent is unknown to me.
You make a good point with the player knowing that marriage is a thing, regardless of their and Annalise's specifics, but that might still lead to a clash of cultures so to speak. It's quite possible that marriage as we know it exists in myriad places in BB's world, but has different meanings in different places. For all we know, mundane marriages may exist all over the place, while still being a somewhat esoteric and occult practice in Yharnam, and the player simply doesn't know any better. Or chooses to defy expectations on purpose. Maybe it's an act of willfulness to propose to a queen. Or maybe it's a symbolic act meant to cement your submission to her, more a bond of servitude than romance. I dunno. :P (And while on the subject, I feel it's a shame we won't get to know more about her; I find Annalise to be a very interesting character, and by extension the whole Vileblood thing. After a Blood Saint, one of their ilk would probably have been my choice of character. Maybe I'll write one sometime down the line. I have some ideas already.)
Nice find on the comic; I hadn't read any of them, I admit. Not sure what to make of that though. Since Miyazaki wasn't the writer, we can't be sure that the writer wasn't just making assumptions about how marriage works without consulting the original creator. It's also possible that it was simply an approximate translation (the comic is Jap in origin, or?). And of course it's really up to anyone whether or not they want to consider it canon material in the first place.
...Man we went on a huge tangent about marriage huh?
Ahh right. I forgot about that ring. That's... very interesting and also really creepy. So the original meaning was probably to "marry" a suitable woman to a great one, a tradition that likely hearkens back all the way to the Pthumerians (recalling that Queen Yharnam looks like she's wearing a wedding dress, for instance). I'm not sure we can conclude that the practice has become more pedestrian since then, since offering the ring to Annalise really doesn't say much. The player is special, she is special, and we can't say for sure whether or not this act of betrothal would even be officially sanctioned if it happend during less tumultuous times. Also, I imagine you can give her the ring even if your character is a woman also, which raises all kinds of questions. (And yes, the uh... blood dregs sure have an interesting icon. Honestly that's an entire subject of its own, what they are, what a child of blood is etc)
Also, to me the description has a strong sound of eugenics. Even if we assume that marriage has become less esoteric nowadays, and permits unions between man and woman (as opposed to human and great one), it still sounds like some institution of power would get to decide who is paired with whom - to guarantee that special child bloodline. Might have, for instance, been an interesting angle for blood saints, somehow handpicking individuals with desireable traits and breeding them to create ideal vessels for the old blood.
That's kinda messed up and I like it. Given that Adelicia's parents are left entirely undescribed, it's an option. Hmmm...
Also, to me the description has a strong sound of eugenics. Even if we assume that marriage has become less esoteric nowadays, and permits unions between man and woman (as opposed to human and great one), it still sounds like some institution of power would get to decide who is paired with whom - to guarantee that special child bloodline. Might have, for instance, been an interesting angle for blood saints, somehow handpicking individuals with desireable traits and breeding them to create ideal vessels for the old blood.
That's kinda messed up and I like it. Given that Adelicia's parents are left entirely undescribed, it's an option. Hmmm...
Okay, I'll bite.
So the first thing about a lot of explicit language, as proven by your examples, is that they often refer to religious mythology. Damn(ation), Hell, invoking Christ etc. I reckon this came about because, by referring to one of the most sacrosanct pillars of their culture, a person can make a point of how grave a factoid or situation is, or how strong their feelings are.
Here's the catch though: We don't know a whole lot about Bloodborne's religion, in spite of how central the church really is. Like yeah we know that they're all about blood healing, and presumably they consider Great Ones to be gods of some sort, but other than that? We can only make the vaguest guesses what a typical sermon would look like, and have no idea whether or not Laurence or someone ever wrote a manifesto, a bible as it were, or what kind of teachings the church imparts upon its flock. From the knowledge we have they seem more like a business than a church, if you ask me (exchanging blood healing for either monetary compensation, or service time). This makes it hard to pin down just how "spiritual" the healing church even is, and thusly also makes it difficult to imagine what sort of mentality and ideas it puts into its followers - which, to come round again, makes it challenging to come up with suitable expletives referencing all of these unknowns. So your guess of gods, blood and beasts is fairly accurate. Given the great problem that beasts pose, I reckon they'd be an excellent object to invoke in order to express disfavor.
Moreover, I think disease at large is a thing that Yharnamites are very cognisant about. After all, it's a city of sick people who came for treatment. An epidemic ravaged an entire district so badly it had to burned down (in recent memory!). The plague of beasts is a constant. Disease is an ever-present companion of the citizens, and is unlikely to be seen as pleasant. Calling someone sick, or saying a thing makes you sick, or calling a problem or behavior a disease or naming someone a blight - I think all of these are fairly believable ways in which a Yharnamite might swear.
In spite of being comprised of to a large extent of outsiders, it seems Yharnamites are quite xenophobic from what snippets of dialogue I can pick up. Thusly, I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine that they might be prone to invoking bigoted, xenophobic slurs to insult people, be they ethnical or cultural in nature. It's human nature, unfortunately, to judge others to be greedy or lazy or plain evil, simply because they share superficial traits with some prominent examples of said behavior. In a city of miserable exiles and outcasts, it seems very realistic to me to imagine that all of these people brought their grudges and prejudices with them, and let them simmer and stew in this crucible of human hatred. That said, the population *had* a bit of a reset after the events of the game, so maybe it's not quite as bad.
Lastly, I think some of the less culturally specific expletives always work regardless of context - the ones that refer to the lowest common denominator. Those referencing sexuality or excrement, things that are universal about humanity. Small variations occur depending on a culture's specifics, such as its tolerance towards deviancy (homosexuality and otherwise) or its degree of sexual freedom (for example the point at which one might be able to call a woman a whore - in some cultures, showing too much leg might be enough, in others it's adultery, etc). We don't have a whole lot of info on Yharnam's specific tolerances here, although if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say the city is relatively conservative (since, for starters, we're looking at repressed Victorian England as a base model). Also, and this is specific to the game, I think the purity of women is something that is very important to females in particular. Both Arianna and Adella consider their blood or themselves to be lowly, the old man is quite clearly not impressed by Arianna and her profession, and there is an entire can of worms that can be opened up on the subject of pregnancy, menstrual blood and so on, and their importance to Yharnam and its people. I have no doubt in my mind that a virgin is valued more highly than a woman who isn't, so I also have no doubt that a particularly promiscuous woman would be seen with disdain - and implying that a woman was one such, be a grave insult. And, as is often the case in society, I also doubt that this extends to men in any comparable fashion.
Sudden stop but ay, here's some food for thought lol
Edit: Actually, does the universe of Bloodborne - or, at least, Yharnam - recognize the institution of marriage? I'm honestly too lazy to look up the text surrounding Viola and Gascoigne because I feel there is probably an answer there somewhere, but I don't remember reading the word wife, husband or marriage anywhere in the game. Also interesting to ponder.
So the first thing about a lot of explicit language, as proven by your examples, is that they often refer to religious mythology. Damn(ation), Hell, invoking Christ etc. I reckon this came about because, by referring to one of the most sacrosanct pillars of their culture, a person can make a point of how grave a factoid or situation is, or how strong their feelings are.
Here's the catch though: We don't know a whole lot about Bloodborne's religion, in spite of how central the church really is. Like yeah we know that they're all about blood healing, and presumably they consider Great Ones to be gods of some sort, but other than that? We can only make the vaguest guesses what a typical sermon would look like, and have no idea whether or not Laurence or someone ever wrote a manifesto, a bible as it were, or what kind of teachings the church imparts upon its flock. From the knowledge we have they seem more like a business than a church, if you ask me (exchanging blood healing for either monetary compensation, or service time). This makes it hard to pin down just how "spiritual" the healing church even is, and thusly also makes it difficult to imagine what sort of mentality and ideas it puts into its followers - which, to come round again, makes it challenging to come up with suitable expletives referencing all of these unknowns. So your guess of gods, blood and beasts is fairly accurate. Given the great problem that beasts pose, I reckon they'd be an excellent object to invoke in order to express disfavor.
Moreover, I think disease at large is a thing that Yharnamites are very cognisant about. After all, it's a city of sick people who came for treatment. An epidemic ravaged an entire district so badly it had to burned down (in recent memory!). The plague of beasts is a constant. Disease is an ever-present companion of the citizens, and is unlikely to be seen as pleasant. Calling someone sick, or saying a thing makes you sick, or calling a problem or behavior a disease or naming someone a blight - I think all of these are fairly believable ways in which a Yharnamite might swear.
In spite of being comprised of to a large extent of outsiders, it seems Yharnamites are quite xenophobic from what snippets of dialogue I can pick up. Thusly, I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine that they might be prone to invoking bigoted, xenophobic slurs to insult people, be they ethnical or cultural in nature. It's human nature, unfortunately, to judge others to be greedy or lazy or plain evil, simply because they share superficial traits with some prominent examples of said behavior. In a city of miserable exiles and outcasts, it seems very realistic to me to imagine that all of these people brought their grudges and prejudices with them, and let them simmer and stew in this crucible of human hatred. That said, the population *had* a bit of a reset after the events of the game, so maybe it's not quite as bad.
Lastly, I think some of the less culturally specific expletives always work regardless of context - the ones that refer to the lowest common denominator. Those referencing sexuality or excrement, things that are universal about humanity. Small variations occur depending on a culture's specifics, such as its tolerance towards deviancy (homosexuality and otherwise) or its degree of sexual freedom (for example the point at which one might be able to call a woman a whore - in some cultures, showing too much leg might be enough, in others it's adultery, etc). We don't have a whole lot of info on Yharnam's specific tolerances here, although if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say the city is relatively conservative (since, for starters, we're looking at repressed Victorian England as a base model). Also, and this is specific to the game, I think the purity of women is something that is very important to females in particular. Both Arianna and Adella consider their blood or themselves to be lowly, the old man is quite clearly not impressed by Arianna and her profession, and there is an entire can of worms that can be opened up on the subject of pregnancy, menstrual blood and so on, and their importance to Yharnam and its people. I have no doubt in my mind that a virgin is valued more highly than a woman who isn't, so I also have no doubt that a particularly promiscuous woman would be seen with disdain - and implying that a woman was one such, be a grave insult. And, as is often the case in society, I also doubt that this extends to men in any comparable fashion.
Sudden stop but ay, here's some food for thought lol
Edit: Actually, does the universe of Bloodborne - or, at least, Yharnam - recognize the institution of marriage? I'm honestly too lazy to look up the text surrounding Viola and Gascoigne because I feel there is probably an answer there somewhere, but I don't remember reading the word wife, husband or marriage anywhere in the game. Also interesting to ponder.
All right. By the way, do you have any speculation on what the incense is made from, or its origins? It occurred to me to ask the question and I don't believe I've heard anything about it. Maybe Redgrave has something in his Bloodborne manifesto, I forget.
I'm not too familiar with the game's cut content, though I remember one cut boss which looked a bit like the popular portrayal of Shub-Nigurath's dark young, as seen here. As for Lovecraft, it's never a bad time to read more of his stuff, or the authors he's inspired. Even some works that you may not immediately associate, like Conan the Barbarian, have some stories that lean quite heavily on grandfather HPL's ideas and are all the better for it. I really liked The Slithering Shadow, for instance.
I'm not too familiar with the game's cut content, though I remember one cut boss which looked a bit like the popular portrayal of Shub-Nigurath's dark young, as seen here. As for Lovecraft, it's never a bad time to read more of his stuff, or the authors he's inspired. Even some works that you may not immediately associate, like Conan the Barbarian, have some stories that lean quite heavily on grandfather HPL's ideas and are all the better for it. I really liked The Slithering Shadow, for instance.
I figured it's the warding incense that they use around buildings, yes. Unless you see some kind of issue with that. Incense is relatively easy to carry and spread, after all, so I figured it would be a prudent thing to equip her with.
Without wasting his breath, Victor trudged off and continued spearheading their journey; Adelicia followed obediently, holding on to her censer staff as if it were her lifeline. Why were so many hunters such unlikeable fellows? She wondered whilst absentmindedly staring at the back of his cloak. And what made a hunter, in the end? They were treated blood, just like any Yharnamite. Just like she was, in fact. What was it that separated her from a hunter? Why was the one so frail and weak, and the other so powerful and savage? And when she considered just how feral beasts were she could not help but speculate: was it simply the state of mind that mattered? Could she, too, if overcome by inhuman lusts, become such a thing? Did she even have the capacity for such desires?
What a strange thought that was. She had never heard of a Blood Saint turning into a beast. Perhaps it was impossible, after all. Or perhaps it was simply another secret that was kept from her.
Cooped up in her own world, Adelicia came close to bumping into Victor before she realized he had come to a halt. Finding her proximity to the huntsman far too dangerous, she quickly retracted her steps.
“Why are we stopping?” she asked with a hint of concern, casting her gaze over the area ahead. It was difficult to ignore the slumbering church giant, and her eyes lingered on it for a little while. It looked so at peace, fast asleep without a care in the world. It wasn’t wracked with fear, or frothing with bloodlust. It didn’t care about the hunt or beasts. Apparently it did not even care about its duty. It was content to simply exist, and to sleep when it felt the urge to. If only she could live such a carefree life!
Happy thoughts were quickly silenced when her eyes finally fell upon the grisly stains of blood that covered significant parts of the ground and walls off to the right. Blood was a common thing in Yharnam and its sight in glass containers fazed her none but it was nonetheless unsettling to see the substance so removed from its usual context. It wasn’t the sight of blood that set her on edge, but rather the imminent danger it implied. Just at that moment, the smell of it hit her like a punch; heavy, cold, iron-like. The scent of pain and death. Cold, too, was the feeling of her insides and, as the blood drained from her already pale face, she clumsily stepped further backwards, away from the carnage and, perhaps worryingly, away from the hunters. When she finally caught sight of the slain servant, her eyes remained stuck on its gore-drowned body – too horrible to look at, but too horrible to look away from.
It is happening again, she thought. Again and again. Beasts will come, and hunters will kill them. Blood begets blood. Violence begets violence. Yharnam is a city at war with itself. This cannot continue. It has to end. It has to end!
Oh please, someone end it!
What a strange thought that was. She had never heard of a Blood Saint turning into a beast. Perhaps it was impossible, after all. Or perhaps it was simply another secret that was kept from her.
Cooped up in her own world, Adelicia came close to bumping into Victor before she realized he had come to a halt. Finding her proximity to the huntsman far too dangerous, she quickly retracted her steps.
“Why are we stopping?” she asked with a hint of concern, casting her gaze over the area ahead. It was difficult to ignore the slumbering church giant, and her eyes lingered on it for a little while. It looked so at peace, fast asleep without a care in the world. It wasn’t wracked with fear, or frothing with bloodlust. It didn’t care about the hunt or beasts. Apparently it did not even care about its duty. It was content to simply exist, and to sleep when it felt the urge to. If only she could live such a carefree life!
Happy thoughts were quickly silenced when her eyes finally fell upon the grisly stains of blood that covered significant parts of the ground and walls off to the right. Blood was a common thing in Yharnam and its sight in glass containers fazed her none but it was nonetheless unsettling to see the substance so removed from its usual context. It wasn’t the sight of blood that set her on edge, but rather the imminent danger it implied. Just at that moment, the smell of it hit her like a punch; heavy, cold, iron-like. The scent of pain and death. Cold, too, was the feeling of her insides and, as the blood drained from her already pale face, she clumsily stepped further backwards, away from the carnage and, perhaps worryingly, away from the hunters. When she finally caught sight of the slain servant, her eyes remained stuck on its gore-drowned body – too horrible to look at, but too horrible to look away from.
It is happening again, she thought. Again and again. Beasts will come, and hunters will kill them. Blood begets blood. Violence begets violence. Yharnam is a city at war with itself. This cannot continue. It has to end. It has to end!
Oh please, someone end it!
It was the answer she expected, but not the one she had been hoping for. With eyes downcast partly from disappointment, partly from an unyielding need to avoid meeting his gaze, Adelicia gave an acknowledging nod. At the very least, she thought, her escorting hunters would not remain with her for the entire night; sometime soon they would be on their way to wherever it was hunters went to quench their inhuman thirst. There was comfort in knowing that much, at least. Perhaps they could find a quaint chapel somewhere in this part of town, or maybe there would be a civilian shelter in the area. Surely the people would benefit from having a saint in their midst to bless and comfort them, and if she was lucky there would even be some children amongst them. Yharnam’s youngest inhabitants often found her easy to like and enjoyed a special bond to her on their interactions; and Adelicia, for her part, had to be reprimanded more than once for giving out blood treats to children without a Vicar’s permission.
“It would be unwise for you to remain out in the open for much longer,” a voice came from behind and above her head – so close that she startled and half turned, half stumbled a step away from Provostus. He was a quiet fellow, in spite of his commanding height, and she had almost forgotten he was there at all. Staring up at him with wide eyes, she remembered only after a second or two to close her mouth. Her gazed did not remain fixed for long, not because his face was so high up from where she stood, but because she felt a wave of shame wash over her. Why was she of all saints sent out to deliver these blessings? Many of her fellow sisters were far less prone to fright than she was, and the Vicar knew it too. Had the treatment really resonated this well with her blood? Was it really better than the others? No one ever told her anything, but she’d heard the rumors of course. A part of her enjoyed the thought of being special somehow.
The other hated it.
“I suppose you are right,” she lamented, first turned towards Provostus, then towards Victor – ever careful never to look him in the eye. The chill from the first time they did was still in her spine. “Y-you needn’t be mindful of me. I can keep up; let us make haste, yes?”
“It would be unwise for you to remain out in the open for much longer,” a voice came from behind and above her head – so close that she startled and half turned, half stumbled a step away from Provostus. He was a quiet fellow, in spite of his commanding height, and she had almost forgotten he was there at all. Staring up at him with wide eyes, she remembered only after a second or two to close her mouth. Her gazed did not remain fixed for long, not because his face was so high up from where she stood, but because she felt a wave of shame wash over her. Why was she of all saints sent out to deliver these blessings? Many of her fellow sisters were far less prone to fright than she was, and the Vicar knew it too. Had the treatment really resonated this well with her blood? Was it really better than the others? No one ever told her anything, but she’d heard the rumors of course. A part of her enjoyed the thought of being special somehow.
The other hated it.
“I suppose you are right,” she lamented, first turned towards Provostus, then towards Victor – ever careful never to look him in the eye. The chill from the first time they did was still in her spine. “Y-you needn’t be mindful of me. I can keep up; let us make haste, yes?”
Adelicia is probably the antithesis of what you expected people to create in terms of characters, I imagine; weak, vulnerable, afraid of everything. Does it make me a masochist or a sadist, I wonder? I'm already thinking about what awful trials she'll be put through. And I have some thoughts as to what might occur if beasthood should swallow her after all. I want to say everything will work out just fine for her but... well, I just don't know about that. Got this feeling. :P
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