Darcs

Radical Feminism, Misandry & the Rise of MGTOW

@Vilageidiotx okay we actually completely agree on most things in this argument, I see where it is we differ now



ALSO;

We can't fix the east from here. We've tried, it doesn't end well.

I actually disagree. I think the internet provides a unique opportunity for people to organize and significantly improve each others lives. Maybe I'm an optimist for thinking a more globalized society is a good thing, I don't know.

With stories like these happening, I can't help but think we can fix the world if we work together.

But that probably makes me sound gay

Cara's Originally Titled OoC Hangout Thread ♥ (Still)

That's a trick question it's a typhoon I know it's rainy season in Moonland

Radical Feminism, Misandry & the Rise of MGTOW

@VilageidiotxBut the fact of the matter is that these are issues that exist independent of an abrasive capitalist ideology, they aren't just symptoms of systematic economic inequalities. They are cancers in their own right, the divide between races and genders in America and the world, but have historical and socio-cultural origins that need to be addressed. That isn't to say that they aren't exacerbated by economic problems, because they are, but in the same vein, the opposite could also be said about social issues worsening economic issues.

By saying that we need to stop focusing on social issues and turn our gaze to the REAL problem that is the capitalist forces of evil, you fall victim to the same problem you accuse me of. You're oversimplifying the issue by splitting it into something that is starkly black and white. You're just swapping the (real) patriarchy with the classism that is the source of evil behind everything.

Trans*people are systematically denied recognition under the law as their gender, homeless people are pushed out of cities and forced further into their situation instead of being offered help, more black men go to prison to fuel the prison industrial complex, Big Pharma fights to get Obamacare repealed, women are still vocationally, socially, and culturally seen as inferior to men, instead of just different, we continue to drone strike the Middle East despite right-wing terrorism being the bigger domestic problem, and conditions on plantations worsen annually while DC does nothing about it. These are complex problems, and no single one really exists independent of the other. It really won't do to try fixing them with ignoring any aspect of them, be it social of economic.

Clearly the real problem here is the state. You should maybe consider becoming an anarchist.

The Topic of Homosexuality, Gender Identity, and So forth

The Greeks had many popular theories such as the one described; however, even if the Greeks are a 'classical' civilization they were hardly the first. In any event this does not get in the way of the original point at all being that not every kind of love is Éros.

@IceHeart

Sure, but it does contradict your implication that Éros can only be felt between a man and a woman, and all us gays in every instance ever are just pretending to feel something beyond strong friendship.

Humans are biologically programmed to be male and female

@IceHeart

*unless you're intersex

sure things can get messed up because of various factors but no one can argue that humans are sexual beings, as opposed to asexual or whatever.

@IceHeart

Oh, I totally can. What with the fact that there are literally asexual people alive right now.

But I digress, as someone who has grown up around doctors and the medical field your statement is completely faulty. Yes some people are born with both sets or whatever but as far as medical science is concerned that is a mutation or the result of faulty DNA. In any case everyone has choice to decide what to do with their own circumstances.

@IceHeart

Human beings' thumbs, brains, and ability to speak, think, and understand is also the result of faulty DNA.

Maybe, yet the concept would take care of many of the issues that cause problems. Everyone is so worried about equality that they forget the fundamental fact that there is inequality in the world. Everyone is different but instead people try to ignore that fact by saying we're all the same. We are all children of God and are equally precious in His eyes but the plain fact of this world is that equality is a myth. No matter how hard they try it will never be the same even if it is called the same.

@IceHeart

You fix inequality by trying to create equality.

There was marriage long before Christianity was around so I find much at fault with your statement; however, you are right in that fact that many pagan influences have effected and entered Christianity. The Catholic Church in particular was adept at incorporating the culture of an area to make the transition from the natives old lives toward their Christian ones easier to do. Still there is no evidence that marriage has pagan roots, especially since the Jews practiced marriage from way before hand. Also if you consider Adam and Eve as being marriage, even from the beginning of human existence.

@IceHeart

Marriage predates all three Abrahamic religions and recorded human history entirely. Early man would participate in bonding rituals to join two people from separate families and strengthen clans overall. It was just a thing the Church adopted because people were already doing it-- to me that says that people should decide how they want to see marriage evolve, not a religious institution.

Also, Adam and Eve never got married, and if they did it'd technically be incestuous. Since Eve was basically just Adam's r63'd clone.

Oakenheim (Modern Supernatural RP)

I have had like no idea what to do I am so sorry for letting you down collective senpai

Go through the Alphabet before someone posts a My Little Pony Picture

E

Has the alphabet been finished at any point even once in the last 5 months?

Cara's Originally Titled OoC Hangout Thread ♥ (Still)

<Snipped quote by Michellin>

I gotta work it~

--Hannah Montana

@Scout

Again and again...

It's a shame, it's a shame,
It's a perfect shame,
Creep under my door and we do it again, oh Oh

The Bird and the Bee

Greece - any first-hand accounts?

They're too busy laughing about how dumb of an idea the Eurozone is and getting drunk on Merkel's sweet rage tears

The Topic of Homosexuality, Gender Identity, and So forth

Gender is identifying emotionally with a biological sex.

@Vilageidiotx

*Unless you don't.

---

The one thing I absolutely hate about this whole issue is the fact that love is often confused with sexuality and often it is economics that gets in the way of the issue.

So on to my first point, I feel that so often it seems that love gets confused with sex. There is a reason that the Greek language has several different versions of love while the poor English language just has one. Greek has at least 4 versions of love Agápe [Brotherly love, wanting the best for that person], Éros [Sexual love/Romantic], Philia [Essentially friendship], and Storge [Mostly family relationship type love]. People often get upset with each other because unfortunately most people instantly jump to Éros version of love when they think about relationships between two women or two men which does not have to be the case. Society is so preoccupied with sex they forget what 'real' relationships are.

@IceHeart

Oh the Greeks! Have you ever read The Symposium by Plato? A popular theory that arose is described by Aristophanes-- essentially each of us is half of a whole being; some of us are men/women, some of us are women/women, and some of us are men/men. In the beginning Zeus cut each of us in half, which is why we spend our lives looking for our other half to make ourselves whole. It didn't matter whether or not the pairing was homosexual or not when it came to finding Éros.

"our biology is not made to work that way"

@IceHeart

Wow I've never met someone who had zero exposure to modern medicine before.

Well on to my second point. Frankly one of the biggest reasons for this debate is the whole issue of economics and property rights. The US system set itself up for this by giving married heterosexual couples more financial support, hospital visit rights, etc, than homosexual couples in 'civil unions'. So instead of trying to get 'civil unions' up to par with marriage they just decided to expand marriage to include homosexuals as well. This would not have been such a mess if the government had separated 'civil unions' to be the financial way for partners to support themselves and left 'marriage' as a religious affirmation of the union between the two partners. But the US never did that and instead left 'civil unions' as an inferior type of marriage so this is the result, making both sides feel that the other is trying to destroy them.

@IceHeart

Even if Civil Unions were equal in every way to Marriage, this would still need to happen. 'Civil Unions' were like telling people 'Oh, you can get married, but you can't call yourself married! That's our word. You are Civil Union-ed, you are not actually allowed to participate in this historical institution of love between two people!' The very concept of Civil Unions are a petty and childish political move.

Original Question

Oh and I am a firm believer that while having homosexual feelings are not always a choice for people, engaging in any sexual activity is certainly a choice. Let people have the choice to make their own decisions, which is what God did for humanity, though I wish marriage had not been caught up in the issue which I do believe is a Man and Woman only institution. *Sigh* if only we could have avoided this mess with government based 'civil unions' and religious based 'marriages'.

@IceHeart

Except marriage is a Pagan institution appropriated by the Church.
Like most things about Christianity.

Radical Feminism, Misandry & the Rise of MGTOW

I'm not convinced that systematic oppression against anybody exists in the West.

@mdk

Yes. The West. As you imply with this statement though, there is an East.

(Also it does still exist in the West)

The closest we have are situations where people in impoverished areas aren't getting enough help -- but that's a far cry from the evil villain twirling his-or-her mustache and cackling as the oppressed are HELD DOWN. That shit don't happen here. Apathy is not oppression, and apathy is as close as we get. Congratulations, us!

@mdk

Okay but an apathy towards the plight of the downtrodden, who are held in that position by a system that is kept in power by your apathy is literally oppression of the downtrodden.

TLDR -- We need to figure out a better way to handle date-rape, soft harassment, and similar crimes. The system as it's set now is unfair to men, sure, but downright insulting to women -- two of the three examples I have from personal experience, the woman was told in no uncertain terms "It doesn't matter what you say now, you aren't strong enough to handle this on your own, and we don't care what you think you want, we're going to do what's in your best interest and you don't have a say in it."

@mdk

#thankspatriarchy

---

They are kinda right...Some things they go a bit overkill on, but I think all groups like that are like that.

@BrokenVeil

Dog, their whole philosophy is that all women are cold shrews who only want them for their money so they choose to be virgins.

---

I agree completely, and that is part of what I meant when I said the problem of our generation (in the west) is going to be economics, not civil rights. It's not about what racial or gender demographic you are born to anymore, its about the general access to wealth.

@Vilageidiotx

You say that like the two aren't intrinsically tied to one another.