Dion

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Vilageidiotx You did poke at the policies, but you just showed that some of them were misconstrued. Fair criticism, but nothing major that would show to me how Trump is going to fail as a politician/president. Nor proof of him being 'a racist, sexist, misogynistic piece of shit' or something similar, which is what some of the allegations even in this thread have been.

I mean, you agreed that some of them were somewhat reasonable, and that others were just political tactics to sway people to vote for him. I guess it worked, no?

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Awson what is reasonable to one is irrational to another. I find it to be quite hysterical to suddenly consider emigrating simply because someone was elected president, which is a common joke/serious inquiry? into emigration I've been hearing.

I think it's more a matter of blindness than anything else. The signs have been there for a long time, before Trump even announced he was running for president. It's the old cliché of 'everyone was sheeples' but it's true. There's a lot of areas that had fallen on hard times and were susceptible to populism. Rather than help these areas, they were just more or less looked down on or ignored. The anti-Obama sentiment was already there when he was elected and was present throughout a long time of his presidency. Naturally, Trump shouted 'screw Obama' and those people would join him. Similarly, the areas that fell on hard time were largely ignored by many politicians and it was very easy to bring these people into the fold.

Trumps victory was entirely avoidable if some of these issues had been resolved, or if the context had changed. At least, I think so. We can't be sure, I think.

Putting supporters of Trump away as racists also isn't entirely something I would consider fair, since calling someone a racist is quite a serious allegation imho. Which is more or less what has happened in this thread and in the public outcry afterwards.

I understand being upset. I don't upset being hysterical.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Awson and again, it is very unlikely that he will do anything of the sorts, because like most politicians, he wants a second term. If you want to be fearful, be fearful of him gaining so much traction that they are going to give him a second term. Then I would be afraid.

But maybe you can be the first to explain to me precisely 'what he can do'? Will he start catapulting Mexicans back across the border?

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Awson Upset =/= sick. End of the story, I think? It's not the end of the world and certainly not the end of the USA: as I have pointed out, path dependency, bureaucratic workloads and the US legal system will prevent him from doing anything major in his first term (something stupid like building a wall) and I seriously doubt he will get elected a second term.

And if he does, that's on the American people.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Awson What can I say, it's a slow day. And political debates are fun.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

<Snipped quote by Buddha>

It is a form of hating on their policies though. Liberals aren't sitting here thinking "Oh dear, how horrible we won't get a trophy!" The left is concerned about the policies Trump will inevitably pursue, and since the fact this is going to happen now has hit them all at once last night rather than slowly over the election, they're going to rage a bit. Democracy isn't supposed to be a faith, where everyone gets in line emotionally. It's a way to use this sort of civic engagement to avoid the internal decadence, and dogged poor judgement, of totalitarianism. As Trump would put it, it's to inject "High energy". So long as everyone follows the rules, and so far everyone has, the rage is perfectly natural. For the record I totally thought the rage following Obama's election was silly and manufactured, but I didn't see it as a threat to democracy. If anything it is an important feature.

And we are living in a globalized society, so what happens in America will effect others. I mean, you said yourself you wanted Trump to win for reasons pertaining to Russo-European relations.

@Vilageidiotx

Me wanting him to win doesn't actually change anything, and if Clinton would've won I would've accepted that instead of throwing a tantrum online, you know. It's not my country - I have no influence and no right to an opinion on the matter except for a casual one. It's nothing to be sick about.

And I don't see it as a form of hating on policies because so far I have seen nothing constructive being added to his policies, only attacks on his character, which is not exactly what I find good feedback for him. Have yet to see anyone actually look at his policies and point out errors.

'He's a racist' doesn't really prove anything to me, since I actually find his ideas reasonable depending on how they are implemented.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Halo I'll do away with the condescending tone, thank you.

You're wrong. Simply put, your opinion is stupid because it infers that people have a right to be 'sick' (what the fuck, who would actually be sick for this, lol) just because they dislike this man. That they have a right to be sick because he represents their country.

Do you know what that is called? Representative democracy. This is how it works. Trump now represents them, because people voted for him. The majority voted for him, in fact, and so he is now the president and therefore the representation of the American people. And yes I do find it entitled that you're asking for people to not say that it's hysterical to be upset about it, because this is the democratic process. You knew this before you voted, the whole process of voting showed a persons participation in the democratic process and I find it very very hard to believe that someone has a right to be sick (disappointed maybe, but should be accepting never the less) just because their preferred candidate didn't win. If it had been the other way around, Trump supporters would've been upset too. But being sick? That's fucking irrational.

I also get the idea that you really really dislike Trump much more than you dislike Clinton or any other random candidate, as you called him a large variety of words. The fact that you put his campaign away as a shitshow shows that much to me.

And yes you are being fucking hysterical, because path dependency, legal obligations for Trump and limitations on his power are put in place especially in the United States of America where states have a large amount of autonomy in and of their own. You act as if he's about to declare the empire of Trumpia, where as he's not even in fucking office yet. There are so many policy-making obstacles to overcome for him that thinking anything other than 'it'll be okay' is stupid.

I also think it is very ironic you say something about 'not declaring who you supported' but simultaneously assuming what I was trying to imply. I don't know who you supported, it obviously wasn't Trump, you're visibly upset with the outcome (and as you say, sick with it?) and I find that stupid because this is the outcome of a democratic process we all agreed upon.

I think nobody has a right to be sick. I think everyone has a right and obligation to suck it up and vote more wisely in the next election. But yes, Trump will represent them, and despite what you seem to believe, representative democracy ensured that as a majority wished for Trump to represent them. Therefore, mob law is rule. No need to be upset, only to accept what has happened and use it as a lesson in the future, no?

Furthermore your insinuation that the rest of the world now has to see Trump as the pinnacle of American society is laughable at best. Come on. Be more creative. I never saw Obama as the pinnacle of American society, so I will never see Trump as pinnacle of American society. Presidents are just people. If you think otherwise you're dehumanizing the most human process in the world, namely governance.

And to be honest your last sentence is what bothers me most. It's not anybody's fault that Trump and Clinton were the only two choices other than that of the American people. If you want to be angry be angry at the American people as a collective for being such a shitty people that they allowed these people to get to to the top. It's not this 'vile mans' fault that they gave him the chance to become president. He simply took it.

You know that meme about 'how did we allow these 2 clowns to become candidates' said the country mourning the death of a gorilla 6 months after it's death? It's fucking true. The anger is misplaced if it is directed at Trump. Rather people should invest more time into knowing a candidate, but also in knowing the political process in the USA. It's fucking mind boggling that people still believe Clinton is the 'lesser evil' for example.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Vilageidiotx that last point is not a really good one. I find it hypocritical to complain about a candidate when the majority elected them. Hate on them for their policies, but don't fucking hate on them just for winning.

That's retarded.

And yeah, but see, foreign people have no invested interest in the American electorate no matter what, so venting doesn't even vent anything, it just sounds like you're trying to be interesting by showing a faked political awareness.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

Actually, I find it more sickening that you feel, just because some people don't like Trump means he should not have been elected. What about those people? Their opinion doesn't fucking matter?

Democracy is fucking dumb, the dumbest system to ever exist, but America proudly has it as their flagship and I hope they realize soon that idiocracy is not the way forward.

2016 US Election: Day Zero

@Halo two non candidates? The libertarians had a chance this year to obtain state funding and blew it by putting forward Gary 'what is Aleppo' Johnson. Fuck off. This is democracy in action. The majority won. You don't have to be happy with it, but you know, the world doesn't revolve around you, or your ideals and we certainly don't have to give leeway to support that. You can't support democracy when your candidate wins but hate it when someone you don't like wins. That's not democracy, that's a cover up.

The minority does not come before the majority and it never will. I suggest you suck it up and stop being so damn entitled.

Sincerely, a Dutch person that does not wish Hillary 'can't we just drone this guy?' Clinton to start a war with Russia over a no-fly zone in Syria, because he does not want to be drafted to fight Russians.